DiscoReefRover
Active member
well today is day 7 and the lil guys are snapping up brine like crazy and to boot there starting to resemble fish ..
Baby Onyx clowns hatched tonight !!!!
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BigTuna321
New member
how about....
LE DISCO'S ATOMIC PHOTON CLOWNS?
LE DISCO'S ATOMIC PHOTON CLOWNS?
bues0022
New member
Nice fish! I'm hoping that someday mine with spawn and I can go through the same process you are!
I stumbled over here and saw the big fight about the clowns and thought I'd put my $0.02 in....
First off, I don't think you really know who that Mitch guy is....he's only one of the top clownfish breeders in the midwest. I've been to his place, seen his setup, talked to him about his fish. If there's anyone around that knows clownfish - it's him! Trying to call him out with a "game point" is ridiculous, because he can school you seven ways from sunday with hard facts. Getting into a factual argument with him -- you aren't going to win. I can't even count how many breeding pairs he's got, LOTS!!
About the whole "Onyx - Not Onyx - I hate Rod's Clown's - name a new breed" bit....What you have is a True Percula. I know that SA sells them as SA Onyx, but there aren't "true" onyx by the definitions that have been established in the hobby. By naming your own breed as some suggested, you'd just be giving a misleading name to true percs that many others already have. A true perc may still have a lot of dark coloration, but in order to be considered an ONYX it must be almost completely black, with highlights of orange, not the other way around as yours are. Furthermore, just because someone may have an Onyx pair does not mean that they will have all Onyx babies either. It's a recessive gene that doesn't always get expressed. Two Onyx parents may have a certain percent of onyx babies, but will also have a number of regular True Percs. Alternatively, a pair of "True Percula" parents may once-in-a-while have an Onyx baby.
Example......Back in the middle ages, Monks over in England experimented with genetics with bean plants. Once in a while, they would have a bean plant that was just what they were looking for (think onyx). Even though the other plants were nice, this one was better (to them). They chose that plant, and planted its seeds. Of those, maybe on 25% were that nice plant. They then picked those seeds and planted again. Over time, you can refine - through selective breeding - the traits that are "desirable". In the case of Bill (from Mitch's post) he chose to breed as much black into the fish as he could - he (and many others) found it desirable. Back to the beans....With the regular seeds, every once in a while, they would still get one of the "really awesome" bean plants, but mostly just the normal ones. The selective breeding (line breeding) ended up with a strain of beans that had the traits the Monks were looking for. Next time you go the hardware store, look at the variety of bean plants you can buy in seeds. Each has been line breed for a specific purpose. It would be incorrect to call a "pole bean" a "bush bean" and also incorrect to call a "bush bean" a "pole bean". BUT, if you buy beans that you want to climb up a pole, and they stay as a bush, you might be mad at the mis-labeling. There's nothing wrong with it, just be sure to put a correct label on your fish. Sorry for the digression, I thought it was a good example.
A bit about "Rod's Clowns"....Rod's clowns are merely Onyx clowns. Many in the hobby think that a "Rod's Clown" is the name given to A. Percula clownfish that are mostly black - Onyx. It's actually more like the "Kleenex" phenomenon. When you go blow your nose, you say "I need to grab a Kleenex" and you may take a tissue of another brand. Or, in the south, at a restaurant you can be asked, "What kind of Coke do you want?" In these examples, brand names become so popular that they replace the generic name. The same has happened with Onyx. People refer to the Onyx clown as "Rod's Clown" because he has experimental in breeding them effectively and bringing them to the masses.
I know people who also think that the Onyx clown is ugly, so instead they get a very nice looking True Perc - what you have! It's nothing to really be upset about, or get in a fit over. I think Mitch was just trying to correct your naming, as an Onyx will fetch a far higher price tag. Is this bad practice to have a higher price tag for fish you think are ugly? Actually no. It's supply and demand 101. Since not all True Percs can give Onyx at great numbers, there are very few onyx fish compared to a full saturation of true percs. SO, because there are fewer, people are willing to pay more.
Try looking up some of the other RARE clownfish breeds. Many are hideous, but can easily fetch in the $5,000 price tag for a single fish.
Also, about the naming thing. Say I own a Chevy Impala, and tell all my friends I have a Corvette, is that right? NO. They're in the same family (Chevy) but the Corvette is more rare, and fetches a higher price tag. Onyx are like the Corvette of Chevy - top-of-the-line for the A. Percula breed.
There's nothing wrong with having a very nice Impala though......
I stumbled over here and saw the big fight about the clowns and thought I'd put my $0.02 in....
First off, I don't think you really know who that Mitch guy is....he's only one of the top clownfish breeders in the midwest. I've been to his place, seen his setup, talked to him about his fish. If there's anyone around that knows clownfish - it's him! Trying to call him out with a "game point" is ridiculous, because he can school you seven ways from sunday with hard facts. Getting into a factual argument with him -- you aren't going to win. I can't even count how many breeding pairs he's got, LOTS!!
About the whole "Onyx - Not Onyx - I hate Rod's Clown's - name a new breed" bit....What you have is a True Percula. I know that SA sells them as SA Onyx, but there aren't "true" onyx by the definitions that have been established in the hobby. By naming your own breed as some suggested, you'd just be giving a misleading name to true percs that many others already have. A true perc may still have a lot of dark coloration, but in order to be considered an ONYX it must be almost completely black, with highlights of orange, not the other way around as yours are. Furthermore, just because someone may have an Onyx pair does not mean that they will have all Onyx babies either. It's a recessive gene that doesn't always get expressed. Two Onyx parents may have a certain percent of onyx babies, but will also have a number of regular True Percs. Alternatively, a pair of "True Percula" parents may once-in-a-while have an Onyx baby.
Example......Back in the middle ages, Monks over in England experimented with genetics with bean plants. Once in a while, they would have a bean plant that was just what they were looking for (think onyx). Even though the other plants were nice, this one was better (to them). They chose that plant, and planted its seeds. Of those, maybe on 25% were that nice plant. They then picked those seeds and planted again. Over time, you can refine - through selective breeding - the traits that are "desirable". In the case of Bill (from Mitch's post) he chose to breed as much black into the fish as he could - he (and many others) found it desirable. Back to the beans....With the regular seeds, every once in a while, they would still get one of the "really awesome" bean plants, but mostly just the normal ones. The selective breeding (line breeding) ended up with a strain of beans that had the traits the Monks were looking for. Next time you go the hardware store, look at the variety of bean plants you can buy in seeds. Each has been line breed for a specific purpose. It would be incorrect to call a "pole bean" a "bush bean" and also incorrect to call a "bush bean" a "pole bean". BUT, if you buy beans that you want to climb up a pole, and they stay as a bush, you might be mad at the mis-labeling. There's nothing wrong with it, just be sure to put a correct label on your fish. Sorry for the digression, I thought it was a good example.
A bit about "Rod's Clowns"....Rod's clowns are merely Onyx clowns. Many in the hobby think that a "Rod's Clown" is the name given to A. Percula clownfish that are mostly black - Onyx. It's actually more like the "Kleenex" phenomenon. When you go blow your nose, you say "I need to grab a Kleenex" and you may take a tissue of another brand. Or, in the south, at a restaurant you can be asked, "What kind of Coke do you want?" In these examples, brand names become so popular that they replace the generic name. The same has happened with Onyx. People refer to the Onyx clown as "Rod's Clown" because he has experimental in breeding them effectively and bringing them to the masses.
I know people who also think that the Onyx clown is ugly, so instead they get a very nice looking True Perc - what you have! It's nothing to really be upset about, or get in a fit over. I think Mitch was just trying to correct your naming, as an Onyx will fetch a far higher price tag. Is this bad practice to have a higher price tag for fish you think are ugly? Actually no. It's supply and demand 101. Since not all True Percs can give Onyx at great numbers, there are very few onyx fish compared to a full saturation of true percs. SO, because there are fewer, people are willing to pay more.
Try looking up some of the other RARE clownfish breeds. Many are hideous, but can easily fetch in the $5,000 price tag for a single fish.
Also, about the naming thing. Say I own a Chevy Impala, and tell all my friends I have a Corvette, is that right? NO. They're in the same family (Chevy) but the Corvette is more rare, and fetches a higher price tag. Onyx are like the Corvette of Chevy - top-of-the-line for the A. Percula breed.
There's nothing wrong with having a very nice Impala though......
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BrunstuckyJoe
Active member
Maybe Mitch can post some pics of his pairs....I'd like to see the different variations.
DiscoReefRover
Active member
again another misinformed soul desides to chime in with out having his ducks in a row ..... again someone missing my point I am in no way saying i am an expert on genetics but I have owned many a percula clown and my pair ar in no way shape or forn anything like any other percula I have owned ...first and foremost as for mitch or whatever you called him told me first my clowns were not in fact "onyx clowns" then told me they were ...hmmm I am no genius but either they are or they arent ?? what I do know is that when I grow these out and 60 % or better look just like there p[arents I have a dominent gene that will prevail so they are not a mistake furthermore the one pic I have of them I very old and resemble very little of what they look like today again people popping off without the facts so I say to you sir like I told your friend this is for me and my fellow clubmembers to enjoy I in no shape or form plan on getting rich or starting some BS LE rare clown fad I personally think it is all Stupid
Good day Sir ...now beat it !!!
Good day Sir ...now beat it !!!
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DiscoReefRover
Active member
On a upbeat note .... My Black Occ. desised to lay me a big ol pile whaile I was at dinner !!! Woot
DiscoReefRover
Active member
Yeah If only I could keep the Jealous clown nazis of my thread ....I supposed now theyll tell me Jet black Clowns arnt true black clowns too even though my pair is 5 years old and does not have one orange speck on em ......
BrunstuckyJoe
Active member
Could you post a pic of them?
DiscoReefRover
Active member
didnt we learn that in 8th grade or something !! LOL
Editorial comment:
Why not celebrate the accomplishment (the breeding of the fish) instead of fixating on the mutation-of-the-day? I am at a loss how a simple disagreement on the identification of clownfish (at a few days age, no less) could cause so much distress.
Why not celebrate the accomplishment (the breeding of the fish) instead of fixating on the mutation-of-the-day? I am at a loss how a simple disagreement on the identification of clownfish (at a few days age, no less) could cause so much distress.
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