Bad batch of Instant Ocean? Alkalinity through the ROOF!!!

[Ninong]

Different recipes.

 

[Megalodon]

So they basically they add so much of each element or compound into a vat and mix it?

 

[Ninong]

I've never seen it done. Ask Ken Stockman, he probably knows. I would imagine that they use large capacity computer blending equipment.

 

[Megalodon]

OK...

OK...

Is Ken Stockman the president of Aquarium Systems? Or the president of a specific subject and a scientist here on RC? I think he's with AS if my memory serves me correctly.

In any case, is he a member here? I'd sure like to talk to him, regardless of his role and/or expertise in this situation.

:spin2: :spin2: :spin2: :spin2: :spin2: :thumbsup:

 

[Ninong]

Re: OK...

Re: OK...

Is Ken Stockman the president of Aquarium Systems? Or the president of a specific subject and a scientist here on RC? I think he's with AS if my memory serves me correctly.

In any case, is he a member here? I'd sure like to talk to him, regardless of his role and/or expertise in this situation.

:spin2: :spin2: :spin2: :spin2: :spin2: :thumbsup:

:rollface:

Ken Stockman is a hobbyist and a member of this board. He is also the guy who designed the DIY standpipe modification that I copied, but he is not, alas, the President of Aquarium Systems.

He did post on page 8 of this thread (kstockman) that he works for one of the largest commodity chemical companies in the world and seems to be familiar with the complexities of blending chemicals in large batches.

The guy that most people think of when they think of Aquarium Systems (lately anyway) is Dr. Tim Hovanec, Chief Science Officer: http://www.marineland.com/drtims.asp The guy they used to think of is Tom Frakes, but he is now 'retired' since Marineland took them over.



P.S. -- The guy from Aquarium Systems who called Thomas712 is Bob Studt. Maybe he'll call you, too, since you posted your name and phone number in this thread and he has been following the thread.

 

[toddpolish]

update: my batch seems fine. the alk tested at 10.9dKH.

 

[Megalodon]

Ninong, LOL...

Ninong, LOL...

You know, since I did a search of every member here that could have seemed like a Ken Stockman, you would have thought I would have seen "kstockman" right there on page eight as being this man... duh... :clown:

Sorry Ken, but I guess it's not so insulting because I suppose we'd all like to be president of Aquarium Systems. :hmm2:

In any case, Ken Stockman is not the president of AS (not that I said he was for sure) and does not have a role in this problem... but Ken has expertise on this situation. He he...

Please Ken, share your expertise...

:fish2: :fish1: :fish2: :fish2: :fish1: :fish2: :fish2: :fish1:

 

[NewMariner]

Yes Ken....please do share your expertise and enlighten us lowly Money Delivery Men......

 

[EmilyB]

But Kent and Instant Ocean are made in the same factory by the same workers, if I'm not mistaken.

I am wondering if they stole some alkalinity from my Kent.....

Actually, after four years of using Kent, I just recently had a problem with extremely low alkalinity, and the new salt measuring out very low.

I go thru a lot of salt so that bucket caused me some grief, but things appear to be fine now. And I'm sure I mentioned to someone just recently, "did Kent change their buckets ?" (colors I think tho...)

 

[EnglishAl]

B]and I can just imagine what it takes to get a homogeneous powder.[/B]
Ken
I know where youââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re coming from on this one (economies of production for a low margin product). However if your statement was an absolute truth then I would never take another aspirin. I have experience in the food industry with the blending of powders and we spent a lot of money on ribbon blenders and automated ingredient addition systems that are also used in the pharmaceutical industry. What separated us were the far more rigorous quality control measures that the pharma industry takes (image the currently discussed problem with a batch of say Tylenol).
Having said that, the problems of ensuring that a very small amount of a blended powder (in a capsule) has the very same ingredient make up of the mother batch is not insurmountable ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it just takes money (careful operators, frequent calibration, and rigorous QA).
Now when you are talking about a 60 lb bucket packaged from maybe a 2000 lb. batch that would not take rocket science (or pharmaceutical methods) to achieve ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ just accurately weighed ingredients and sufficient blending time. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t know how IO weighs and blend their salt but I would guess itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s with automated ingredient addition (loss-in-weight feeders) and a big batch (or maybe continuous) blender. An out of calibration feeder is all you would need to screw up a batch.
In fairness to IO the above dialogue is my personal opinion based on my experience in the food industry and may not have any bearing on the way IO blends their product. (Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m a wimp I know).
Cheers
Alan

 

[cwschoon]

Marineland is owned by Aquaria inc.
Kent salt is made in the same place as IO according to Kent's specs.

 

[Ninong]

Marineland is owned by Aquaria inc.
Kent salt is made in the same place as IO according to Kent's specs.

Now that you mention it, I see the Aquaria, Inc. logo at the bottom of their company profile page: http://www.marineland.com/about_profile.asp

Are they publicly traded? Are they even a U.S. based company?

 

[cwschoon]

I do not think they are public. I know all this useless info because I used to sell Marineland stuff as well as Aquarium Systems products. They are a US company and may be trying to do a bit much, according to some.....I wonder how many people realize how much they own?

 

[Ninong]

I wonder how many people realize how much they own?

From the looks of it, the range of endeavors is huge, which sometimes leads to centralized decisions that are not the same as those that might result in a more tightly focused, smaller company. Too many accountants, if you know what I mean.

An interesting analogy might be the recent history of one of their tank building competitors, Oceanic Systems. Some folks complained when All-Glass bought them out because the warranty was scaled back. Some even thought they noticed a reduction in quality. Well, the warranty was really trimmed when All-Glass (including their Oceanic Systems division) was bought out by that garden supply company in Lafayette, CA.

 

[RGibson]

Marineland

Marineland

Marineland was sold to Aquaria a year or so back, Aquaria is end the east part of the US. RGibson

 

[Ninong]

Re: Marineland

Re: Marineland

Marineland was sold to Aquaria a year or so back, Aquaria is end the east part of the US. RGibson

So what exactly is Aquaria, Inc.? Is it just a holding company owned by a bunch of hedge funds or something?

P.S. -- I think I may have answered my own question. It looks like it's just Aquaria, Inc. dba Marineland that then bought out Aquarium Systems and Perfecto. I guess Aquaria, Inc. was Marineland's corporate name all along.

 

[cwschoon]

Ninong: I posted but do not see it so here goes again: I used to sell Oceanic before they sold and own 2 of their tanks. I have heard that the quality has gone down. That other company you are referring to is Central Pet. They own TFH books and a whole bunch of other "pet" companies. I am 99.999% sure that they recently bought Kent as well!!

 

[robitreef]

FWIW-I have used both IO and Tropic Marin in my years of reefkeeping. I started with IO but switched to Tropic Marin for no obvious reason. Maybe because it was from Germany and a lot of high quality aquarium products hail from here. One thing that I did know regarding Tropic Marin was that it dissolved faster then IO. It was a little more expensive ($5-10 more/bucket) and I remember the LFS telling me it was the superior salt. I don't know if I believe that. Anyway I have tried both and that was the only difference I noticed. I don't think one is better then the other-it may be personal preference, and I am sure the opportunity for a bad batch can exist with any company.

One thing I was curious about-when I was buying my Tropic Marin, I was contemplating trying IO Reef Crystals. Since the going was good on Tropic Marin I decided to stay with it, but have others had better results or problems with Reef Crystals?
(Sorry if this should have been a new post).

 

[Megalodon]

They are a US company and may be trying to do a bit much, according to some.....I wonder how many people realize how much they own?

From the looks of it, the range of endeavors is huge, which sometimes leads to centralized decisions that are not the same as those that might result in a more tightly focused, smaller company. Too many accountants, if you know what I mean.

Scary. Mass concentration of ownership. How many "little guys" are left on the aquaria industrial production scene?

What separated us were the far more rigorous quality control measures that the pharma industry takes (image the currently discussed problem with a batch of say Tylenol). Having said that, the problems of ensuring that a very small amount of a blended powder (in a capsule) has the very same ingredient make up of the mother batch is not insurmountable ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ it just takes money (careful operators, frequent calibration, and rigorous QA). Now when you are talking about a 60 lb bucket packaged from maybe a 2000 lb. batch that would not take rocket science (or pharmaceutical methods) to achieve ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ just accurately weighed ingredients and sufficient blending time.

Those are good points. It isn't rocket science getting thousands of pounds of ingredients to mix properly. I wonder what happened as an end result to the product after the really rich person(s) who owns Aquaria Incorporated, acquired Marineland, which owns Aquarium Systems which makes Instant Ocean. :eek2:

PS- Why don't my posts show the names on quotes?

 

[keodog]

PS- Why don't my posts show the names on quotes?

There is a quote icon, that you click on, for the post you want. It is in top right of the msg.