Bad batch of Instant Ocean? Alkalinity through the ROOF!!!

[mjag]

Well to give you the heads. I called IO/AS today. Im sending a sample of salt out tommorrow. Lucky the have some left over. They will replace the bucket of salt if they find it being bad which they will. Hopefully they take care of my dead fish and cleanup crew also. But I have to say so far they are very helpful and seem to want to take care of the problem asap..


Mjag

 

[DgenR8]

Not to be mean or anything but some people are getting flamed on this board and I know other reefers that will never post because they always say they get flamed. RC is known around the other reef web sites as a bunch of flamers. Not to say everyone is but just look at some of the posts here and you too will see the flaming going on. Just be polite and answer the questions that are asked as there is no need to Jab, poke, or stab each other. Or is there!:mixed:

Have you noticed the link at the lower right hand corner of every post on this board that says "report this post to a Moderator"?
If you, or anyone else have a problem with ANY post ANYWHERE on this board, click that link. If the post is in violation of the user agreement (that everyone agrees to before they can post here,) it WILL be dealt with.
Not every post that gets reported is deemed worthy of administrative action, but I assure you, every report is investigated.

 

[Megalodon]

Here's what I say the scoop is on water... even if you mix Instant Ocean with a power head for twenty minutes your fish will be OK. That's what they advertise: Instant Ocean.

There are chemical reactions after mixing salt to water. It even heats up the water a bit, does it not?

The best is to let it sit with a power head for 24 hours. Some will say 48 hours. How quickly after mixing it do you use it? If there's any un-dissolved salt then you're asking for trouble, so it pays to be patient and wait, especially if you have inverts.

In any case, little mixing time would not have made a difference to your dead fish if you had the bad salt.

 

[PureSalty]

I am looking for some kind of documentation that states Kent was bought by Aquaria Inc.
I can find nothing about Aquaria Inc on the web but it is on the bottom of every web page at Marineland.com

Also http://www.marineland.com/about_profile.asp
says the following...
MARINELAND COMPANIES
Aquarium Systems in Mentor, Ohio manufactures Instant OceanÃ"šÃ‚®, the world's leading synthetic sea salt - in addition to a comprehensive line of high quality aquarium products.

Perfecto Manufacturing in Noblesville, Indiana produces light hoods, strip lights and a wide selection of glass aquariums and stands in many shapes and sizes.

Jungle Talk also headquartered in Mentor, Ohio designs and distributes quality, safe, innovative bird toys to challenge and entertain.

So if you know where a statement or web site or mission statement is saying Kent was bought then please put up a link for me.
Thanks
Dave

Interesting reading here
http://www.kentmarine.com/saltwaterseasalt.html

 

[PureSalty]

Have you noticed the link at the lower right hand corner of every post on this board that says "report this post to a Moderator"?
If you, or anyone else have a problem with ANY post ANYWHERE on this board, click that link. If the post is in violation of the user agreement (that everyone agrees to before they can post here,) it WILL be dealt with.
Not every post that gets reported is deemed worthy of administrative action, but I assure you, every report is investigated.

Yes I have seen the link. Have you read all the posts? Can you really say some don't fall under flaming?
I was stating a fact that people do not post here because they were getting flamed. I believe the more posts you have the better informed one will be. Thats all!

 

[DgenR8]

Salty,
With 40,000 members, sometimes a post slips through unseen by the staff. I haven't seen anything needing attention, but I might have missed something.
If there's something you'd like me to look at, use the link, it's anonymous, and it does work.

 

[MiddletonMark]

:idea:
Perhaps everyone who reads this thread should start a new practice. Every new bag/box of salt you use ... always mix and then test the first batch of water you get from it. Ph, Alkalinity ... why not Calcium too? If it's funny ... don't add it.

Three tests, certainly not much to safeguard against being the victim of a bad mix like these guys are. I'm sure they'd rather have their old livestock alive than a replacement of the same breed.

Many folks use 200 gallon buckets ... and IMO if the first batch is good, likely the last batch is. It seems these guys entire bucket was tainted ... so that later samples they take out are also the same crap they were misled into putting in their tank [trusted the salt maker]

I used 20 gallons from my main tank so I thought it was fine. I alwaysed used tap water and mix the salt takes about twenty to 30 minutes and and put it in the tank after checking temp and salinity with a refractometer for qt.. If I am doing it please advise me. I checked nh3, no2,no3 with aquarium pharmaceticals

Well, reading from Michael Paletta's `new marine aquarium' and both Fenner's Conscientous Marine Aquarist, and Tullock's Natural Reef Aquariums [all recent, good, common saltwater books that I found locally at Borders and Barnes&Noble] ... every one of them suggests to add salt to water and mix for at least 24 hours before adding.

Tullock even adds `synthetic seawater should never be used immediately after rehydration. Always aerate it overnight before use.' In fact, he recommends testing it for Ph and Alkalinity after checking temp and salinity - and before adding. [Personally I would be far more concerned with these two than Ammonia or Nitrate in the water, though following much advice, I've only used RO or RO/DI in my reef tanks so have little worry of those two]

Yes, IO does say `can be used immediately after mixing' on the package, but also does say that it should be aerated to balance oxygen/carbon dioxide. It is stupid packaging, agreed.

But I try to balance my practices with what a few good books taught me, what fellow reefers say, what I read online, and what I hear from the LFS. The most cautious way I consider the best - I've spent a lot on my two reef tanks [and QT] ... to do anything more than what seems most careful.

 

[Ninong]

I am looking for some kind of documentation that states Kent was bought by Aquaria Inc.
I can find nothing about Aquaria Inc on the web but it is on the bottom of every web page at Marineland.com

PureSalty,

Where did you hear that Kent was bought by Aquaria, Inc.? Was that something that happened recently? And if Kent actually makes their own salt, then that's a recent development.

I really had to laugh at the jab Kent is taking on their website at Aqua-Medic and Omega. But to tell you the truth, I guess it is kinda funny when you think about it. Omega looks like it's based in Sitka, Alaska and we all know that Aqua-Medic is based in Germany but I wonder where their salt mixes really come from? I have heard that both of these brands are manufactured somewhere in Mentor, Ohio.

Aquaria, Inc. is a subsidiary of United Pet Group. United Pet Group was formed in 1997 by TA Associates, a private venture capital company. Then in 1999, with the help of a few other venture capitalists, they acquired Perfecto Holding which owned Perfecto Manufacturing and Aquarium Systems. United Pet Group has (or at least they had in 1997) two operating divisions: Aquaria, Inc. and Eight in One Pet Products, Inc. Their brands include: Marineland, Perfecto, Aquarium Systems, Jungle Talk, Eight in One and Lazy Pet. They probably have a lot more stuff now judging from their website. The information here was taken from a press release dated Sept. 1999.

 

[PureSalty]

PureSalty,

Where did you hear that Kent was bought by Aquaria, Inc.? Was that something that happened recently? And if Kent actually makes their own salt, then that's a recent development.

Thanks,
Someone here posted that Kent was bought out.... somewhere on pages 6 to 9 I think.

If someone knows the plant name and or address where they mix the sea salts I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Dave

 

[Icepic]

in all the io buckets that i have gotten that say free pump in them , the pump has alwas been at the bottom of the bucket . and you had to dig your way down to get it .

 

[SPC]

:idea:
Perhaps everyone who reads this thread should start a new practice. Every new bag/box of salt you use ... always mix and then test the first batch of water you get from it. Ph, Alkalinity ... why not Calcium too? If it's funny ... don't add it.

Unless this problem becomes more wide pread, Mark, I think I'll stick with the cloudy water = bad analyis.

in all the io buckets that i have gotten that say free pump in them , the pump has alwas been at the bottom of the bucket . and you had to dig your way down to get it .

I usaually just use the salt until I get to the pump. Really I wish they wouldn't even add the pump, I would rather have the extra salt.
Steve

 

[MiddletonMark]

Unless this problem becomes more wide pread, Mark, I think I'll stick with the cloudy water = bad analyis.

I agree. All my point is, for the cost of less than $1 in test kit materials, you can test Ph, Alk, and even more on every new 200 gallon bucket. That's not really much an investment.

Not sure what I'll be doing on my next bucket, but likely testing for a while. Cheap investment for what I'm protecting [big investment in corals/fish].

But at very least -> cloudy mixed water = tested, a sample saved, and unused salt for me.

---

Sadly, my free shipping Petsmart IO doesn't have the little mini-pumps. If you need to get rid of any extras, I could take one or two ... as I've got a couple extra IO buckets in storage right now.

Nice having just to haul them from the front door to my storage room ... not at store, to car, from car ... but I'm lazy

 

[Megalodon]

I agree with Mark:

1) The buckets of salt are very damned heavy and free shipping to your doorstep is convienient.

2) Testing our buckets after each is opened with an alkalinity, pH, and maybe even a calcium test kit before using it is a good idea when you have as much to loose as some of us do.

We already test salinity and temperature before adding to the tank. The cloudiness isn't going to tell us everything. There could be all kinds of things wrong with the water and we wouldn't even know it.

And aren't a lot of people coming forward and saying their IO salt is DKH 3.5 while others say their's is DKH 21 when they don't even have the suspect salt? Do people just need to go out and get better test kits... and should we be balancing the alkalinity and calcium before adding it to our tank anyway? Obviously inconsistances are common enough.

These are the DKHs of the last four salts I've used:

Bag of IO - 6
Bucket of Red Sea - 8
Bucket of IO - 37
Bucket of IO - 4
:eek2:
The bad bucket (second to last) did not have the free pump as advertised.

 

[EnglishAl]

Here's a direct quote from the Aquarium Systems website that should provide some interesting reading.

Instant OceanÃ"šÃ‚® synthetic sea salt contains every necessary major, minor, and trace element and has no nitrates and no phosphates. It was developed through sophisticated biological and chemical testing, and every batch is analyzed to assure consistent high quality.
.....every batch is analyzed to assure consistent high quality
I bet the head of QA had a interesting "prayer meeting" with the folks who are responsible for testing and analyzing batches. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that one.
The one good thing about all of this is that:
1. IO have admitted they had a problem by offering to replace any dead fish. That's a great point for them.
and
2. It has alerted everyone to the need for testing of new water prior to adding it to their tank.
Cheers
Alan

 

[justletmein]

When did IO offer to replace dead fish? I must have missed that one.

 

[Kengar]

in all the io buckets that i have gotten that say free pump in them , the pump has alwas been at the bottom of the bucket . and you had to dig your way down to get it .

Yeah? So what?! It's a SUBMERSIBLE pump! Whaddaya exPECT?!

 

[SPC]

Over the years I have stuck my PH probe in my 40 gallon mixing drum, maybe 5 times, haven't seen a problem yet. Now if the water ever mixes cloudy I will stop in my tracks.

I was just wondering, I add Bionic, kalk, pickling lime, Turbo Calcium, flake food, Golden Pearls etc... to my tank without testing (don't know if I would even know how). We do have to trust that some manufacturers are just doing the right thing, I mean, no one tests these do they?
Steve

 

[reefcrazed]

Don't know if anyone cares at this point, but this same exact thing happened to me with Instant Ocean about 2 years ago. SAME EXACT THING! Lost some inhabitants, had to run to LFS to get 150g of water to do repetitive water changes to get things back to normal. I switched salts after that. Glad to see that I did.

 

[MiddletonMark]

I was just wondering, I add Bionic, kalk, pickling lime, Turbo Calcium, flake food, Golden Pearls etc... to my tank without testing (don't know if I would even know how). We do have to trust that some manufacturers are just doing the right thing, I mean, no one tests these do they?

Good point [as usual for you].

I mean, with the amount of various chemicals added to many of our tanks ... you have to have some level of trust. Bad batch of kalk, or any supplement would be even scarier ... and nearly impossible to visually tell like this. Impossible to test pretty much.

Yikes .... hate knowing how fragile our tanks really are ... how dependent they are on competent use of dependable machinery [and ingredients].

Hmmmm ... time to think [and worry]. Too bad I'm at work, otherwise I'd run over and check my tanks right this instant

 

[PureSalty]

Yeah? So what?! It's a SUBMERSIBLE pump! Whaddaya exPECT?!

LOL