Banggai Cardinal pairing question

[ichthyogeek]

I'm headed to the LFS this Saturday, armed with red snapper roe and about 1.5 mL of Doc's Eco Eggs to pick out some Banggai Cardinalfish, and possibly some Stonogiops randalli, maybe an Alpheus randalli. My dad's confident that by buying only three fish of each species, I should be able to get a pair.:headwallblue: . He's good at math, here're some calculations I did in case you plan on buying gonochoristic fish, or fish too old to change gender:
2 fish: 50/50 chance of a pair/no pair
3 fish: 75/25 chance of a pair/no pair
4 fish: 87.5/12.5 chance of a pair/no pair
5 fish: 93.075/6.25 chance of a pair/no pair
6 fish: 96.0375/3.0625 chance of a pair/no pair
7 fish: 97.56875/1.53125 chance of a pair/no pair
8 fish: 99% chance of having a pair
9 fish+: you're getting a pair unless you're really, really, really unlucky.

I'm not too happy about a 75/25 chance, but BC and SR here in Arkansas are expensive, as is shipping from LiveAquaria. And easy as it is, my parents aren't willing to let me drop 225+ on fishand supplies to mitigate shipping expenses. So without breaking bank, how many BC do you think I should get to at least manage a pair of fish? They run for about 24$ here, but on the plus side, I can probably return any extras to the LFS for credit (i.e. SR pairing time). Also, any additional ways I can skew the choosing of BC to best get something along the lines of two males to one female?

Please, please don't recommend venting or by mouth shape, I really, really suck at ID by mouth shape, and the fish at the LFS aren't fat enough to protrude their vents (shocking, I know).

 

[ginpang]

Banggai Cardinal pairing question

Does your lfs have at least that ' one' very knowledgable person? Perhaps they can help you with jaw shape... Because if they are old enough like close to too inches the female is round- oval like a spoon and the male is really more like an oblong hexagon.

Also if there is a Bunch in the same aquarium and one seems to control the area is probably male ... Perhaps being closer to the front and possibly lower in the tank with 5-6 others in a school. Then pick a very round one.

Hope this helps

 

[ichthyogeek]

My LFS has "two" very knowledgable people...but neither of them has delved into marine fish breeding...:headwally:

So is the dominant male usually a loner? or does he tend to school with the group?

Unfortunately, the LFS tends to feed its fish very little to mitigate water changes...so "very round" is almost always never an option unless you count the poor bumblebee grouper that somebody dropped off...

 

[kizanne]

disclaimer: Not an expert.

I started with 5. I'm down to 3.

The dominant female controls the group and now that they are breeding she keeps the other female from looking at or hanging out with the male. When they were at the fish store they kinda grouped but once I got them home and they started swapping eggs everything changed. I would say the one off by themselves is probably a girl. I would get 3 and I'd look at their shape when doing it. While you might can't tell girl from boy if you look at the mouth there are some differences. I'd also look at their behavior. 3 gives you pretty good chances of a pair and if you add in getting ones that look a little different then you probably get a pair. If you get really lucky you'll get 2 boys and one girl so they'll harem for you.

 

[ginpang]

Lol ! awsome ! What kizanne observed in her aquarium is exactly the opposite of what I've observed when the store i used to work at when we would receive large -ish batches of cardinals...
Poor guy, must be so confused. Perhaps googling Banggai Cardinal pair images and practicing to differentiate them or go with the 87% chance and get 4 [emoji4]

 

[ginpang]

Banggai Cardinal pairing question

disclaimer: Not an expert either

 

[kizanne]

:lolspin:

either way you get 3 or 4 and your chances are high. If you store will take them back all the better.

Kiz McLeod

 

[ichthyogeek]

Ugh...somebody please make a guide to pairing fish with pictures...

Kizanne, nice to see you on this thread! I know that you're BC's are breeding right now, could I beg of you to post some pictures of the male, alpha female and beta female? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

Ginpang: I tried looking them up...they all look the same to me. One photo (canreef.com I think) showed a male/female pair...but it was kinda obvious the male was holding eggs. Either that or the bucchal cavity (?) really is that ginormous.

 

[ThRoewer]

They can be sexed: How to determine the sex of Banggai Cardinalfish

 

[ichthyogeek]

Sigh*. I already mentioned venting. Unfortunately, the fish are too malnourished for me to check their vents.

 

[2_zoa]

While I wasn't expecting my fish to breed. I did check and sex them once they were home. I used the vent method, looking for one or two protrusions. I fed them pretty heavy and with a full gut, it was more easy to tell.

 

[kizanne]

Ugh...somebody please make a guide to pairing fish with pictures...

Kizanne, nice to see you on this thread! I know that you're BC's are breeding right now, could I beg of you to post some pictures of the male, alpha female and beta female? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

Ginpang: I tried looking them up...they all look the same to me. One photo (canreef.com I think) showed a male/female pair...but it was kinda obvious the male was holding eggs. Either that or the bucchal cavity (?) really is that ginormous.

I'll try to get some Sunday. I'm a teacher and I'm in the thick of back to school. I'm at school now (saturday) but Sunday I need to do some tank maintence. My male hides on the back side of the tank so he can be tricky.

 

[Lrood]

No easy way for this. Just buy 3-4 and give it some time. I bred & raised these for a long time and never really found a sure fire technique, especially with younger fish.