Barrier Reef Bleaching Pic

[MCary]

The problem with solar panels is that they take more energy to make than they produce.

Aubee, the coralsI meant were ones right next to one another. One coral bleached and right next to it one that is fine. Doesn't sound like a temperature problem does it?

I hate blaming man for every environemtal issue that comes along (sometimes s___t just happens) but one issue effecting the reefs that makes sense, and what probaly caused the observed bleaching is, like I said earlier, spiny sea stars. There has beed a huge increase in spiny sea stars. The eat SPS and have desimated huge areas of the reef. Their effect seems to be traced back to the mouths of rivers. It was suggested in the documentary I saw that run off from agricultural fields put sediment and fertilyzers into the ocean which caused phytoplankton blooms. Larval sea stars eat phyto plankton, The stars are incredibly prolific and produce thousands of eggs. But normally many of the larva die. This is a man made situation that makes sense.

BTW the desimated areas shown in the documentary looked just like the picture shown of the bleached coral.

 

[The Reefer91]

smleee- it's almost done. i just have to actually design it but i'm getting there

everyone, can't you see, there is one simple reason the corals are bleached, the temp is rising, and the world ending.......Captain Crunch!!!! it's all his fault the blue hatted pee pot








jk/ thought it would lighten the mood

 

[JotaDe]

When I was a kid my pops spent our college money, hilarious isn't it, on buying a wind maching for electrical power on our property. He installed it himself, and did get money back during windy months from the gas and electric company for all the energy he was giving them. My mom complains they didn't give him a quarter of what they should have based on the amount of electricity he was generating. Still one day the brakes faultered on that thing and it sounded like a 747 taking off, had the whole neighborhood hiding in doors for fear of being impaled by one of it's propellers. Kind of funny now that I think of it, had to tie it down days later as soon as the wind died down.
So my point was, yes, you can get paid by the gas & electric company for supplying power, but it may not be what you think it's worth

 

[FLY CRJ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6970013#post6970013 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jent46bow
I like a lot of what you wrote but I would like to see some sites with information about the last few things you said. From what I have read O3 depleation has stoped. Infact there is evedience that it is starting to repair itself. It is not that the whole world has stoped using CFC's but we are using them in a manner in which is sustiainable and the earth is starting to repair itself. So I am just a little cuirious on that one (not arguing, just not my understanding).

BTW incase anyone wonders the reason why I am so passionate and knowlagable on these atmospheric science topics is because it is just a side intrest of mine. I work for the EPA (enviromental protection agency) & NFS (national forest service) in air quality research. Although I am not a researcher myself (i do computer stuff) I am exposed to it all the time, and I hear a lot of intresting things. So it is just something I have picked up lots of tidbits over the years.

O3 depleation has probably recessed, and most likely to the point where the UV/O2 reaction can generate more O3 on a daily basis. But the issue is still relevant. China, India, and other countries still use CFCs in many products and there is still no one all-in-one safe solutions. The responsible use of these has helped also. I have not kept up on this issue lately so my understanding might be a little outdated. Anyways, here is some more info for ya!

EPA

NOAA

More detailed NOAA article on CFCs

 

[FLY CRJ]

I was just reading some of those sites I posted, check this out.

CFC-115 (C2F5Cl)
Monochloropentafluoroethane

It has a lifetime of 1700 years? Holy smokes! :mixed:

 

[onthefly]

Trippyl - Excellent pull on the "State of Fear" reference! Fiction or not, Creighton cites his data and you can't argue with that.

 

[aubee91]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6970214#post6970214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trippyl
Not really. The amount of emissions from one jet flight to any reef of our choice will be greater PER PERSON than someone driving an SUV for a year.

Just looking at the fuel capacity of a 747 compared to a Chevy Suburban leads me to believe that you are incorrect by about an order of magnitude here.

 

[trippyl]

Well, actually this link says that I may be wrong, but if so, not by much.

http://www.tufts.edu/tie/tci/airtravel.htm

Bear in mind when reading this that many empty flights can tilt the balance towards or away my argument. It's that close.

 

[petermai]

i'm the same way. i dont' drive as often. i leave my car in san jose while living in sf. i take mostly muni or bart. and on the weekends when i am home, i go home to RC51 waiting for me in the garage. but the problem's deeper than this...

american society is dependent on our automobile and the nostalgic feelings that goes with owning the biggest and baddest trucks/suv/sports car out there, or even the beautiful classics from the 60's. in a sense, it's not the people that should be blamed even though we as a nation, are the gross consumer of fossil fuel worldwide. this is due to the fact that government never sanctioned any significant improvements in our public transportation system.

we live in a society that is constantly rushing, constantly late, and with a deadline to meet day in day out. how would we be able to meet these timed race to school, work, and other responsibilities using today's public transportation? i don't mean to start a "conspiracy theory," but if public transportation is to be highly efficient and people would drive less; who do you think will lose profit to the drop in gas sales?

we've gone too long depending on our automobiles and now it seems to me that our cars are our addictions and it's not going to be easy shaping the whole nation up to be using public transportation as a viable means to get around. there will definitely be some withdrawal symptoms.

there are definitely things that are changing for the better with the environment in mind. "greener" chemistry...using hydrogen peroxide as an oxidizer instead of flouro-carbons. nuclear power plants, i believe these if closely regulated in the aspect of waste storage in salt reservoir would prove to be more highly efficient and better for the environmentthan that of burning fossil fuel or coal.

as far as CO2 being a greenhouse gas. it does more also...think about how your CA+ reactor works:
(CO2 + H2O --> H2CO3....H2CO3 + CaCO3<--- your coral bones will be dissolved into usuable calcium.)

our oceans' ph is dropping and with the ongoing introduction of CO2 into the atmosphere which will dissolve into the ocean to produce carbonic acids and from there it will go through a lewis acid base reaction with CAO3(our corals). it will reach a point where our ocean will be nothing more than a calcium reactor but that's theoretically speaking of course.

yes there are lots of factors that will be changing our environments such as the magnetic poles are about to switch from north to south and vice versa...where do you think birds will migrate, and if they all die, what will happen? then again, it is theorized that there is enough iron deposits in the rocks for them to judge directions without the actual poles.

beyond all of this, we got a even bigger problem. bird flu(H5N1). i'm really surprised it's really oblivious to the general public. all of my science journals are going nuts about it and they have good reasons to be.

ok, enough ranting. just finished my midterms and have been up all night studying so i'm delirious and i'm going to go bed now. okbye.

 

[zemuron114]

i vote aliens.. whose with me???

 

[MCary]

Wow Peter, you lend ammunition to the argument that a little knowledge is dangerous. You presented very sound conclusions and a very intelligent sounding argument with the 10% of the total data your mind posesses. I see your pre-med, don't worry the attendings will fix that during your internship the first time you jump to conclusions without considering everything.

 

[The Reefer91]

zemuron114, Captain Crunch teamed up with the Aliens!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[onthefly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6976583#post6976583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petermai
all of my science journals are going nuts about it and they have good reasons to be.

Flavor of the month! People go nuts over what ever gets them funding....remember SARS? Those guys were White hot for about 8 months, now......*crickets chirping*

H5N1 is a dangerous health risk no doubt, but people keep talking about pandemic, and lets face facts....the world, our health care, quarantine protocols, WHO, UN, CDC, and the fact that we now know its a virus (not a bacillus, like they did in 1918), make it highly unlikely that a global "pandemic" to 1918 standards will occur. The SARS outbreak was a great test of that.

 

[justinzimm]

Here is some NOAA info. to help make your minds up....

The amount of energy entering and escaping from Earth is the determining factor in climate. Any changes to that balance-either the input or the output-will cause a directional change in climate. Observations have conclusively demonstrated that the atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases has risen dramatically since the onset of the Industrial Age. Human activities such as fossil fuel burning and deforestation have caused this increase. - NOAA

I think any unbiased scientist whould say without a doubt global warming is REAL and man is leading contributor.

MCary - Just about everthing you said about global warming either contradicts yourself or is just plain wrong according to government data.

Driving inefficent cars including SUVs does not help this problem. Neither does dozens of other things we do on a daily basis to harm our planet and it's reefs. If we can do things to help now. Why do we try to argue, make up data and question our scientist's findings?

 

[wetWolger]

yea seen all those before....i looked for them but could not find them. Thanks for posting them

 

[00nothing]

havnt read any of the thread besides a few blurbs on page one to much tree hugging and anti tree hugging for me

watched a show on discovery channel the other day that was very interesting.

According to core samples pulled from the 2 mile thick crust of ice in greenland the warming effect we are seeing while maybe somewhat contributed to global warming is not entirely unatural. This has happened before in the past where the globe warmed to the point that it caused huge freshwater floods from galciers into the ocean disrupting the diffrent ocean currents causing massive worlwide cooling and bringing on an iceage.

So before we are so quick to point fingers at SUV's and jetliners for the state of the worlds atmospheric problems we are not considiering that what is occuring is part of the earths natural cycle.

Like any woman mother earth has her cycles and things can get a little heated during them lol

Sorry ladies i know that was a rude and sexists comment but u gotta see a little bit of humor in it

 

[wetWolger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6980706#post6980706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 00nothing
havnt read any of the thread besides a few blurbs on page one to much tree hugging and anti tree hugging for me

watched a show on discovery channel the other day that was very interesting.

According to core samples pulled from the 2 mile thick crust of ice in greenland the warming effect we are seeing while maybe somewhat contributed to global warming is not entirely unatural. This has happened before in the past where the globe warmed to the point that it caused huge freshwater floods from galciers into the ocean disrupting the diffrent ocean currents causing massive worlwide cooling and bringing on an iceage.

So before we are so quick to point fingers at SUV's and jetliners for the state of the worlds atmospheric problems we are not considiering that what is occuring is part of the earths natural cycle.

Like any woman mother earth has her cycles and things can get a little heated during them lol

Sorry ladies i know that was a rude and sexists comment but u gotta see a little bit of humor in it

you should really read the thread before posting....it has been stated MANY times this is part of the earths natural cycle. We are discussing if we are effecting that natural cycle by making it worse.

 

[xtm]

People just like to complain and protest with just about anything.... tangs in a small tank, people whining about SUV's, penguin kids getting upset with Microsoft, people upset with Intel.. etc etc

 

[petermai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6979044#post6979044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MCary
Wow Peter, you lend ammunition to the argument that a little knowledge is dangerous. You presented very sound conclusions and a very intelligent sounding argument with the 10% of the total data your mind posesses. I see your pre-med, don't worry the attendings will fix that during your internship the first time you jump to conclusions without considering everything.

MCary,

i responded to this heartbreaking thread with with my very own pure reason and logic from the knowledge i've attained throughout my years in school and also of self learning. all of which is my very own opinion. i don't mean for my statement to be written down in stones for generations to worship. but i do see where you're coming from. i am very assertive and sometime a little over assertive when it comes to my convictions, so i don't want you to be taken aback by my statement.

Flavor of the month! People go nuts over what ever gets them funding....remember SARS? Those guys were White hot for about 8 months, now......*crickets chirping*

H5N1 is a dangerous health risk no doubt, but people keep talking about pandemic, and lets face facts....the world, our health care, quarantine protocols, WHO, UN, CDC, and the fact that we now know its a virus (not a bacillus, like they did in 1918), make it highly unlikely that a global "pandemic" to 1918 standards will occur. The SARS outbreak was a great test of that

onthefly,

in a sense you're right. but sars was definitely a serious problem for those affected by it and their family members don't you think? i'm 22 years of age and about 5 months ago...i had a stroke and was in the hospital for 3 days with my whole left side of the body paralyzed and now i'm running and jumping again, and doctors have no idea the cause of this. i take medical issues very seriously. also, i live in the bay area which makes things a little more tense for me at least.

the population of asian americans in the bay area is around 30% or higher. out of SFO alone, there are roughly 36 flights going to and coming back from south east asia daily. and it is of the fairly recent that a lake somewhere in china was documented to have 8000 birds lay dead along the shores and all of them were found with varying strains of the virus. all of which makes me uneasy. it's just my feelings about the subject.

 

[polskp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6952464#post6952464 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jent46bow
they make a chiller....it is called 'GET RID OF YOUR SUV" ;-)

Thank you- very well put!