Basement filter room - advise?

[EyesClosed]

I am in the process of designing a system where the filter room will be in the basement about 4m (12') below, and about 6m vertically across from the display.

Does anyone have any recommendations or advise particularly around the plumbing, return pumps and overflow with this greater than average height difference. Areas I’m unsure about is:

- will noise of overflow be louder due to greater height drop of water?
- I have a return height of 4 meters, should I be looking at a return pump with a 8m height?
- is there any impact on choosing a submersed or external pump?
- anything else I haven’t thought of?

 

[Aquarist007]

perhaps this will help

the drain water is t'ed off into two lines each controlled by ball valves
one line goes to the deep sand bed/live rock refugium then flow to the chaeto alge refugium and then enters the sump close to the bulkhead that leads to the pump and back to the tank

the other drain lines goes directly into the sump where it is skimmed.

the water is pumped up 9 feet of head to the return tank. The pump is a blue line hd100

 

[Aquarist007]

Re: Basement filter room - advise?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14648504#post14648504 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EyesClosed
I am in the process of designing a system where the filter room will be in the basement about 4m (12') below, and about 6m vertically across from the display.

Does anyone have any recommendations or advise particularly around the plumbing, return pumps and overflow with this greater than average height difference. Areas I’m unsure about is:

- will noise of overflow be louder due to greater height drop of water?
- I have a return height of 4 meters, should I be looking at a return pump with a 8m height?
- is there any impact on choosing a submersed or external pump?
- anything else I haven’t thought of?

the overflow noise is created between the level in the overflow and the level in the display tank. This can be decreased by raising up the durso in the overflow. The durso also has a pin whole in the top of it--if this gets plugged the noise increases in the over flow.
This has nothing to do with the water dropping between floors---that flow to is a matter of gravity and the diameter of the pipe.
eg a one inch drain can only acheive a flow of 600 gph via gravity.

The flow height in the tank is controlled by using a ball valve on the return line between the pump and the tank

for calculating head pressure(the return rate of flow) this is a calculator on the first page of this site that has most of the common brands of pumps listed. You have to take into consideration diameter of return lines, bends ect--this calculator does a good job of it.

submersed pumps have the advantage of being less noisy but can create heat problems in the water column.

 

[EyesClosed]

thanks for that, I have looked at the calculator, but was wondering if there are any special considerations when dealing with these hieghts.

is there anything else to think about?

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

When my brother added a 60g cube upstairs he cut a rectangular hole the size of a vent cap so that way when he moves or took down the tank there would not be ugly holes in his floor.

Good thing he did... He had to take down his whole system a few months later.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14651545#post14651545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SharkBait_Mtl
When my brother added a 60g cube upstairs he cut a rectangular hole the size of a vent cap so that way when he moves or took down the tank there would not be ugly holes in his floor.

Good thing he did... He had to take down his whole system a few months later.

I don't even have that--just a three inch hole--I've kept the plug too.

eyesclosed---figuring out the pump is the main concern---but the ball valve on the return line is a must--otherwise you can't control the level in your display tank.
You also need to keep the gravity drain flow in mind--600 gph.
No sense getting a pump that pushing 1300 gph with the head pressure you have.

You might also want to consider wiring. Notice I added receptacles up close to the first floor so I could run my halide ballasts in the basement too. This reduced alot of heat being produced upstairs in the small display tank room.

 

[EyesClosed]

do you have anything under the tank in the stand? at this stage, i dont plan to have anything there, but i'm thinking it may start becoming a pain that everytime i want to do something to the tak, i have to go downstairs. In my case, i have to outside to get into the basement. is there somethign i should have for easy access in the stand, with perhaps a sump?

i'm also looking at getting a kill switch for the return pump under the stand. that way if there is ever an emergecy, like overflow not working, i can kill the return pump. otherwise it;ll tak me 30sec to get to it downstairs.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14656657#post14656657 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EyesClosed
do you have anything under the tank in the stand? at this stage, i dont plan to have anything there, but i'm thinking it may start becoming a pain that everytime i want to do something to the tak, i have to go downstairs. In my case, i have to outside to get into the basement. is there somethign i should have for easy access in the stand, with perhaps a sump?

i'm also looking at getting a kill switch for the return pump under the stand. that way if there is ever an emergecy, like overflow not working, i can kill the return pump. otherwise it;ll tak me 30sec to get to it downstairs.

Under the stand:
I have a battery backup to run the power heads and two battery operated air pumps that come on if there is a power failure.
There is a interval controller for the power heads
and a can of fish flake food ---that's it

BTW
when you brought up the concern about noise---if you notice on the return pipe I added a 12 inch piece of plastic hose--this took away the vibration and sound that was being carried along the pvc piping.

 

[theredben]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14656657#post14656657 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EyesClosed

i'm also looking at getting a kill switch for the return pump under the stand. that way if there is ever an emergecy, like overflow not working, i can kill the return pump. otherwise it;ll tak me 30sec to get to it downstairs.

If you are worried about your overflow not working, you need something along the line of a float switch in the sump to turn off the return pump once the water level drops. It doesn't matter how much time we watch our tanks, the vast majority of the time it is just running itself. If there is going to be a failure it is most likely to happen when we are not watching.

If it was me, I would like to have kill switches for the power heads (feeding), and light controls(to show visitors what something looks like under actinics for example).

 

[EyesClosed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14660297#post14660297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by theredben
If you are worried about your overflow not working, you need something along the line of a float switch in the sump to turn off the return pump once the water level drops. It doesn't matter how much time we watch our tanks, the vast majority of the time it is just running itself. If there is going to be a failure it is most likely to happen when we are not watching.

from previous experience, most of the time there is an issue is when youre just getting the flow started, or tuning, such as like after a major clean. but youre right, besides that, if youre not around, theres no point.

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

I don't even have that--just a three inch hole--I've kept the plug too.

not to nickpick.... :bum:

but....my point was

if you decide to move.... or take down the system.... you will have a 3" hole, or circle in the floor.... where as a vent cap would be more acceptable.

dont hate me... :lol:


here is a older pic of his sump room setup before he took down the system...

as for the schematic t...I am missing a pic of the 2nd sump.... and there were a little mods made after these pics were taken

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14662728#post14662728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SharkBait_Mtl
not to nickpick.... :bum:

but....my point was

if you decide to move.... or take down the system.... you will have a 3" hole, or circle in the floor.... where as a vent cap would be more acceptable.

dont hate me... :lol:


here is a older pic of his sump room setup before he took down the system...

as for the schematic t...I am missing a pic of the 2nd sump.... and there were a little mods made after these pics were taken

really nice setup sharkbait.

Curious--do you have any way to isolate the qt when it is treating fish. I thought of hooking my 40 gal tank which I use as observation/frags ect to the water column but thought it should remain separate

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

really nice setup sharkbait.

Curious--do you have any way to isolate the qt when it is treating fish. I thought of hooking my 40 gal tank which I use as observation/frags ect to the water column but thought it should remain separate

yes it can be isolated with the use of ball valves.... the QT tank is not used for medication....... it is used to observe and acclimate the fish to my system water before ths fish is added to the main system. If the fish does happen to be sick then it is transfered to a medication tank and treated... and the remote qt/sump setup is flushed....

that was my brothers setup... I plan to do the same thing once I build my fish room...

clicky lil red house for link to my build

 

[EyesClosed]

bump

 

[Santoki]

Re: Basement filter room - advise?

- will noise of overflow be louder due to greater height drop of water?

The amount of noise will depend on how much water is being drained through a given diameter drain. The sound quality changes with amount of drop. More drop = more hollow sounding IME.

- I have a return height of 4 meters, should I be looking at a return pump with a 8m height?

There is a head pressure calculator on the home page as previously mentioned by someone. You can use that to calculate what rating pump is needed. If you are not planning on running penductors or wave makers, you do not need an overly powerful pump. Keep in mind there are usually two ratings to look for when looking for this kind of return pump: Head pressure and total flow. Head pressure rating is what's important here. A higher pressure rating won't get you more volume.

- is there any impact on choosing a submersed or external pump?

IME submersed adds more heat to the system and is not as easy to maintain.

- anything else I haven’t thought of?

IME, total volume turn around is over rated, especially if you have an efficient skimmer. Slower flow also negates the need for extra parts like Durso pipes etc... while still maintaining quiet operation.

If you are worried about flooding from overflow failure, consider two seperate drains. Also, you can mount the return inlet closer to the water surface so that it will never pump more volume than the display can handle without overflowing. Most better pumps have auto shut-off when a dry state is detected.
hope this helps.