Battery Backup Requirements for Apex

[jharding08]

Hello,
I am thinking of disaster recovery for my Reef Tank which is run with an Apex Controller. I currently have two EB8s that run the following devices(I still need to gather the rest of the device voltages):



I would like to put either one or both EB8s on a UPS that will allow the vital components of the tank to run through a power outage of at least an hour.

I have been looking at the Tunze Turbelle Safety Connector which could take care of the Tunze's, but I was also thinking about putting all the pumps (both Tunzes, return pump, ATO, Overflow, etc.) on one EB8 and just put that on a battery backup. What are the 8 most important devices on my two EB8 lists?

How big of a UPS would I need? Here is the readout from the current EB8s for the past 7 days:



I currently got this UPS from work, but it doesnt look like it will handle many devices:

OmniVS Series 800VA Tower Line-Interactive 120V UPS with USB port (OMNIVS800)

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=2729

 

[aquamanic]

Figuring that you can't run any UPS at 100% and assuming you want some headroom as you add equipment (450 watts + 50%), you need something in the 1000Va range to do what you want to do. That's probably a UPS in the $1,000 to $1,200 range. An hour is a long time for batteries.

You'd probably be better off just running your power heads on an oscillate where they're on for a few minutes, off for 5 minutes, then back on and doing this only when power is out. Take everything else and shut it down. That would keep circulation going. I don't know where you live or what your house temp is so I can't say whether you really need a chiller or heater. In Baton Rouge where I live, battery backup isn't an option - we use generators. Too hot and power can be out for days at a time! Nasty little things in the Gulf pop up from time to time!

 

[jharding08]

I live in Southern California, so most of the time I dont need a heater or a chiller, 70 degrees in my place. I guess i can just get the Tunze safety connector and hook it up to a 12V battery. That will keep my powerheads running at least.

 

[jharding08]

Are there backup generators that run off of natural gas? If the power goes off, the gas is still flowing...

 

[sanababit]

I have one of my eb8 on battery backup, i have calcium pump, reactor feed pump, backup heater, skimmer, return pump, moonlights hooked up to it, wrote a little program which shuts down everything except the return pump for circulation, and when power comes back it turns on everything minute by minute, meaning it first turns on the skimmer then a minute later the reactor pumps then the heater etc, the apex is really awsome once you figure it out, lol, with everything shutoff except my return pump which is using 45 watts will last about 40-45 minutes on my ups which is around 300Va

Sana

 

[aquamanic]

Are there backup generators that run off of natural gas? If the power goes off, the gas is still flowing..

Yes. Natural gas is the most popular for smaller household sized units but there's also diesel. Larger units that run data centers are either/or.

One interesting note about the nat gas units. During Gustav in 2008 people with nat gas generators had problems with pressure. Seems there are so many nat gas generators now in Baton Rouge, they impact the gas supply when they're all running at the same time. Of course if you went with diesel then it eventually runs out and if there's no power in the town, there's no way to power the gas pumps, etc, etc..Seems like sometimes you just can't win!

 

[jharding08]

Sorry for the abundance of questions, just getting into protecting my reef now that it is stable.

I picked these up from Home Depot. Can I use these between the wall outlet and the EB8?


Also, could I use this on a TRIAC outlet and plug a Tom's aqualifter into it to get it to turn on and off reliably everytime?

 

[ska d]

good questions. we just had a power outage in toronto and some were without power for a couple of days. i got lucky and had pwer but it was to close for comfort. i have an assortment of battery powered air pumps, but im picking up a ups this weeekend. but a generator is on the list also. now i know there used to be different kinds of ups (trickle,...etc), but im not sure what the newer ups are. but one thing i could never get a straight answer for is how many amps does the ups draw while charging. looking at some specs i noticed an input voltage of 110-120v and a current draw of 12a. now what wasnt clear was if that 12a was charging, or the total amps that could be drawn (ie. pumps running) and the battery charging. if it draws 12a charging, and my eb8 is drawing 2.5 (roughly) that doesnt leave much wiggle and im sure it would trip my 15a breaker. im lucky enough to have a landlord who installed a seperate breaker for just my aquarium, so running my toaster and microwave wont shut down the tank. but im pushing my luck if i have to ask him to install another plug and breaker just to hook up a battery back up. so looking at these "newer" technology ups, they boast "more energy efficient", and use some fancy terms that sound like they would draw less power. but looking for some specs on input voltage and current all that was stated was 110-120v. no indication of current draw, or even wattage so i could at least calculate the current. anyone have an opinion about cuurent draw and charging these ups units?

 

[ska d]

bump

 

[aquamanic]

You would have to check with the manufacturer to get an exact answer for the UPS you're considering but in general a UPS only does a trickle charge when recharging the batteries - probably only 1A or so. A larger UPS might be a little higher and a smaller one a little lower but it's not going to be much - certainly not 12A.

 

[aquamanic]

I picked these up from Home Depot. Can I use these between the wall outlet and the EB8?

Yes.

could I use this on a TRIAC outlet and plug a Tom's aqualifter into it to get it to turn on and off reliably everytime?

Doubtful. A GFCI doesn't draw any current so unless you got the load up over 5 watts or so, the TRIAC will be unreliable. I wouldn't trust it to shut off 100% of the time. You could get a splitter cord (1 into 2) and put a 15watt night light on one and the pump on the other. That would do it.

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Unlimi...&qid=1374343114&sr=1-1&keywords=splitter+cord

 

[jharding08]

So I tested my 800VA UPS by charging it and then running a 75W light bulb and see how long it takes until the battery dies. It took about 30 minutes. I was hoping it would be more.

I am looking to find a solution to run both Tunzes (35W each) and my return pump (54W, soon to be 105W). Also, two Aqualifters (3W each). Thats a total of 130-181W total to run. I am hoping to get at least 3-4 hours of battery backup.

Question 1 - If I get a 12 Volt 35 Ah AGM Sealed Lead Acid Rechargeable Battery (http://www.batterymart.com/merchant...de=12v-35ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery-group-u1) to run off of the Tunze Safety connector, how long would it run the two Tunzes?

Question 2 - To run 130w-181W, for 4 hours, could I use an inverter with Marine batteries?

Which is the best option?...I know, a generator. haha

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Be careful with a portable GFCI. I have one that I'm going to be replacing with an actual outlet. The problem is that they trip when you have a power outage and don't reset. I ran into this last week when the temperature was 100 degrees outside. The power must have momentarily went out and the tank didn't come back on with the rest of the stuff in the house.

 

[aquamanic]

they trip when you have a power outage

That's good to know.

Have you tested that and every time you cycle power with one of those, it trips or did it just trip this one time that power actually went out at your house (maybe that event was preceded by something else)?

 

[Spyderturbo007]

It's happened to me multiple times. The most recent was last Thursday. It appears to happen when there is an outage or when there is a momentary drop, but not a complete loss of power. I'm assuming the power company was "playing" around with the power last Thursday because it was 100+ degrees outside. They must have done something because my GFCI tripped, my cable box rebooted and one of my servers shut off. All three of which are on different breakers and on the same outlet as other devices that remained on during the incident. All the other electronics in the house remained on, including my other server and workstation upstairs.

It did this twice. Once before I got home from lunch and once while I was still there eating. When I came home, everything in the house was on, except for the Apex. Stupid GFCI.

I'm assuming they were just more sensitive to minute power fluctuations than my other electronics.

Either way, they seem to be pretty sensitive. My brother in law is coming by tonight to replace the outlet for me with a normal, in-wall, GFCI.

 

[jharding08]

Yes.



Doubtful. A GFCI doesn't draw any current so unless you got the load up over 5 watts or so, the TRIAC will be unreliable. I wouldn't trust it to shut off 100% of the time. You could get a splitter cord (1 into 2) and put a 15watt night light on one and the pump on the other. That would do it.

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Unlimi...&qid=1374343114&sr=1-1&keywords=splitter+cord

How many watts are needed total for the TRIAC to work everytime? Will a nightlight that autosenses daylight work? I know it will be in my cabinet, but wouldnt I want it to be on all the time? This may be asking too much, but can you recommend one on Amazon? Anything else I can use? Fan?

 

[aquamanic]

You can use anything, just get the load up over 5 watts. That's not a hard and fast number but it seems to be pretty close.

 

[jharding08]

How about a little power strip with a 30 W light bulb plugged into it and the aqualifter?

 

[jharding08]

Also, one more thing...
If I have two EB8s, can I use a statement like If Power EB8_3 Off 000 Then ON in my email alarm to notify me of a power outage? Do I need to connect the Base unit to a 12V?

 

[aquamanic]

If I have two EB8s, can I use a statement like If Power EB8_3 Off 000 Then ON in my email alarm to notify me of a power outage?

Think about it. Unless one of those EB8's is on a separate source of power, both EB8's will be dead. No power to the controller, no ability to send an email. So yes, you would need some source of power while utility power is out. You could use a tiny UPS and the 12v converter. Remember to include your modem and router as well - need all the parts to be working, not just the controller. And if you have cable internet, it may be out as well if the utility outage is widespread. In that case, you're toast. Doesn't matter if the Apex, your modem and router are all working. No internet service.