BB Tank: SPS grow fast, but have lost their color?

[onthefly]

Hey Travis!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7239120#post7239120 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
With a small tank, perhaps there's not the same amount of particulate or detritus in the water [that likely feeds coral] and that with a moderate fishload [good idea IMO] it can leave the corals with nothing more than temporary `booms' of nutrient/food in the water column - followed by long stretches of little.

BINGO!!!!!! In the end, after months of trying to "dirty" my water......excessive feeding, turning the skimmer off, reduced photoperiod, Zeo additives, letting my filter sock go for 3 weeks, etc..........I added a very thin layer of sand to the tank (mixture of caribsea and SD). Within about a week I saw a "noticable" difference in coral health.

Your setup will progress like this if you don't correct it:
1) mount frag - sets down and base a growth tip grow like mad for a month of so
2) start to lose vibrant colors, but growth still good
3) PE starts to go away with lights on, but growth is still ok
4) Growth stops, PE sucks, color is drab
5) Very slow necrosis from the base up begins

 

[Travis Savant]

Looks like I should pick up a bag of sand, my set up is almost identical to OTFs.

 

[Travis Savant]

BTW, what bulb and wattage are you using again?

 

[acropora nut]

feed more and try coralvue reeflux 1000k or 1200k bulbs.You wont be disapointed.

 

[woodywoo]

I think some of the Brown out might be due to the Cabron Leacing off Phosphates. The only Carbon I would use would be RowaCarbon its very low in Phosphates. DO NOT USE AQUACLEAR OR BLACK DIAMONDS they are both full of Phosphates.

 

[Travis Savant]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7240964#post7240964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by woodywoo
DO NOT USE AQUACLEAR OR BLACK DIAMONDS they are both full of Phosphates.

Woops, I've been using Aquaclear Carbon up untill just a few weeks ago I have since then switched to a all in one filter pad. It's supposed to have carbon, phosphate removing media, and some other stuff. I am good friends with the owner of me LFS, and alot of his customers use the same filter pads and all have had 100% possitive reviews about it. The ones that use it are all advanced in terms of knowledge of the hoby.

 

[Ludwigia73]

Lots of people including myself swear by black diamond. Not necessarily the best stuff, but some beautiful tanks running on it.

 

[shelburn61]

As onthefly said you are seeing the same old BB low nutrient/high light problem.

You went barebottom for a reason... allowing for easier control/removal of nutrients. Sand isn't the answer. I have a shallow sandbed and still had these problems. You have reached the point of high nutrient export so now you have to play with higher imports

Add more fish and feed more. Run dirty for a while and raise the pendant or shade the tank with windowscreen til the zoox come back. The goal is to provide the corals with NUTRITION (food, fish poo, DOCs, etc.) while removing it before it decomposes into "NUTRIENTS" (i.e. PO4, NO3).

I wouldn't worry about PO4 for now b/c the zoox in most tanks are N limited anyway. IMO your lights are overkill. I would switch to 14k or 20k. You'll get better color that way as well.

 

[Chip Douglas]

I really doubt starvation is the culprit. More then likely your water is very clear since it's barebottom and the intensity coupled with a long photoperiod is causing corals to lighten up. Corals do not starve in a barebottom system because photosynthesis is still taking place. If you want to dose anything to help the corals, you could try dosing iodine and amino acids (salifert, kent marine, or korallin would all be fine), but I wouldn't suggest that you purposely dirty up the tank by overfeeding. This is of course my opinion, and I'm hoping I don't start a debate

I'm pretty sure it's the lighting. Try cutting your photoperiod way back, even starting at 4-5 hours a day. If you go with 4-5 hours a day, do it for a few weeks and see what kind of results you get, and work from there. I recently cut my XM's from 9 hours a day back to 7 hours a day and got good results, I may even cut back to 6 hours a day. It's still plenty of light, believe me.

 

[Travis Savant]

As I said before, I will be switching the lights.

I am considering converting my BB to a SSB. Any problems with that?

 

[Chip Douglas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7241298#post7241298 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis Savant
As I said before, I will be switching the lights.

I am considering converting my BB to a SSB. Any problems with that?

For what reasons?

Even if you switch the lights, start with a shorter photoperiod and work your way up if you feel it's needed. Try the new bulbs at 4-5 hours a day for a few weeks and see how your corals respond, then work from there.

 

[Travis Savant]

It's to my understanding that it takes a few hours before photosythesis is even able to take place. So lets say it takes two hours, that would mean my corals would only be able to take in two ours worth of food, woudn't that make them worse off?

 

[brentp]

Travis,

You have people telling you to raise your lighting, change your lighting, feed more, feed different, add sand, etc. I'm sure I missed a few things. Some of it is good advice and one or two of these things may be your solution but don't change too much, too fast. Look at what is probably safe to do and makes sense.

You have already started feeding more but don't go crazy with adding food.

IMO and if I had the same problem as you, after checking all my parameters, I would have done the following:
1) Raised my lighting
2) Removed the carbon and phosphate remover

Then wait and see if things improve. If things didn't improve a little after a couple weeks then I would start thinking of adding more food or doing some of the other things people suggested. If you make a bunch of changes really quickly, instead of having some pale and/or browned corals you'll have a bunch of white fleshless sticks.

Brent

 

[shelburn61]

Your zoox are definitely starved for something. That's why they aren't there. Reducing the lighting will help though.

Why does this always happen to BB tanks? Tanks with sandbeds run just as much lighting, but don't have this problem nearly as often.

 

[Travis Savant]

Shelburn61 maked a good observation.


Brent, I know it's not the filter media because I have had this problem with the coral long before I started to use it.

I personaly would hate it if I would only be able to run my tank lights for 4-5 hours a day. Which is why I am switching my bulb type so that I will be able to view my tank just as long or longer, but get the same affect as if I reduced the time or moved it higher. I also would like a bluer tent from my light.

 

[DaddyJax]

Well I have been reading for quite a bit and have studied the setups of many of the tanks of the months and the tanks of the "experts" and I would say that 80% to 90% of them have a sand bed. I dont believe it is only for looks since we are talking about limiting the light period to a few hours a day when nature has light for a whole lot longer than that! I believe that the BB movement has hit some snags. I am not saying that it is wrong but I am saying that by removing the sand you are having to change the dynamics of the tank setup and husbandry. I have yet to read how having BB is any easier and any less problematic.

 

[7thheaven]

Could you tell me the symptoms of nutrient starvation?

and How are different between Nutrient Starvation and over
-nutrient (I do not know exact name..) in view of sympoms?

I am not sure but my tank is also nutrient starvation environment

(SPS only, 2 fishes, 100gal, KH 7.5,CA 420,PO4=0.02,T5 9~11hours BK250 skimmer)
Thanks..

 

[cecilturtle]

Travis,

I do not understand why you would need to run phosphate remover on a BB tank...especially one that is understocked, underfed, and filled with RO/DI.

Do a search on PhosBan/RowaPhos and you will find a great debate on this not to mention the mixed results. Ditch it. You should have better colors in a week provided you alk/cal are steady.

One other thing I see no mention of is your temperature. Are you monitoring it throughout the day? A 250 HQI 10K can heat things up a bit on a 20. At least enough to stress them...

 

[Chip Douglas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7241415#post7241415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaddyJax
Well I have been reading for quite a bit and have studied the setups of many of the tanks of the months and the tanks of the "experts" and I would say that 80% to 90% of them have a sand bed. I dont believe it is only for looks since we are talking about limiting the light period to a few hours a day when nature has light for a whole lot longer than that! I believe that the BB movement has hit some snags. I am not saying that it is wrong but I am saying that by removing the sand you are having to change the dynamics of the tank setup and husbandry. I have yet to read how having BB is any easier and any less problematic.

You can't compare it to nature, there are so many other factors involved in the exposure to light corals receive in the wild. In aquariums we specifically place corals where we feel they'd get the amount of light they need and they sit under that light for as long as we make them. 3-4 hours has been proven to be sufficient for coral health, growth, color, etc. If you wanted to view your tank later in the day, you could always turn the lights back on for a bit, it wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[shelburn61]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7241415#post7241415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaddyJax
Well I have been reading for quite a bit and have studied the setups of many of the tanks of the months and the tanks of the "experts" and I would say that 80% to 90% of them have a sand bed. I dont believe it is only for looks since we are talking about limiting the light period to a few hours a day when nature has light for a whole lot longer than that! I believe that the BB movement has hit some snags. I am not saying that it is wrong but I am saying that by removing the sand you are having to change the dynamics of the tank setup and husbandry. I have yet to read how having BB is any easier and any less problematic.

That's because BB allows for more efficient removal of decaying organics. People have been so caught up in preventing nutrient accumulation that they forgot corals actually do need food. Better skimmers and other means of nutrient removal have allowed reefers to get to the point where they can starve their corals.

You can do the same thing with sand, but it is much rarer.