best light to grow macro

[rogergolf66]

I have 24 inches to cover I want to grow macros I hear 6500K is the way to go what do you think?


24 hours or reverse lighting cycle then the main display?

 

[Samala]

Many people use twenty-four hour photoperiods since we have several reports that this helps prevent Caulerpa genus algae from sporulating (or going sexual). If you keep only Chaetomorpha, you might not need to have twenty-four hour lighting, and the algae may grow better if it has a dark period.

6500 - 10,000K light does seem to be great for macroalgae, but all the way down to 4000K also seems to work. Some macroalgae (such as Chaetomorpha) are really very forgiving as far as intensity and color temperature of the light they are provided.

Reverse lighting is excellent for managing fluctuations in pH. It is the way I would go with a full blown reef and a lit refugium.

HTH

>Sarah

 

[Plantbrain]

I've virtually always seem far better growth with a dark phase.
Other things such as moving the plants/bottoming out the Nitrogen supply , low Ca etc seem to cause issues.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[piercho]

You want to generate as high of irradiance as possible for the best production rates, if this is what you mean by “best”. Light source should be spread-spectrum with decent correlation to sunlight.

If your tank is long and skinny linear fluorescent like T5HO is OK, but not best for highest irradiance levels. For efficiently getting very high irradiance levels you need point source like metal halide in a collimating (directs light into one axis) fixture. So, empirically, to be the “best” light source the bulb has to fit in a very effective fixture. Fixtures for DE MH usually have best numbers because the fixture can be constructed for a bulb of fixed geometry package. DE fixtures often are smaller and pack light into a tighter footprint, as well. Here are some very effective fixtures, one for wider distribution area and one for smaller:
SS Lumen Max 3
PFO Mini Pendant

Once you pick the best fixture for your tank geometry, you pick the bulb. I have many years using EYE (Iwasaki) 6500K bulbs and IF USED ON THE RECOMMENDED BALLAST these are extremely good, long-lasting bulbs that have good spectral stability and lumen maintenance. I’m currently using Venture 6000K 150W DE bulbs for my veg filter because I needed a daylight-spectra DE bulb that could fit in a mini-pendant and when I was looking for them the EYE 150W DE 6500K bulb could not be bought in the US. Hellolights has started carrying the EYE 150W DE bulb but the spectra/irradiance of the Venture is comparable and the Venture only cost me $40. It will be a while before I know how well the Venture bulbs will last.
Venture 6000K 150W DE

Then, there is the ballast, of course. I'm using a M102 CWA-circuit for my 150W bulb and its not the best as it seems to blacken the arch tube. The best for 150W DE would be M81 HX-HPF circuit ballast, or a suitable electronic ballast.
Recommended ballasts for MH

Suitable electronic hard to find. From an email discussion I have with Paul Hirvonen:

My personal favorite electronic ballasts are manufactured by PowerSelect Inc also known as Reliable Ballast. They are known for making quality ballasts.
PFO lighting used these ballasts in electronic enclosed assembled ballasts they offered but have changed due to cost and competitive reasons.

They have the lowest lamp Current Crest Factor rating I’ve come across and the 150-watt models are compatible with most ANSI M/C142, M102 and M81 lamps.
The one lamp this ballast and other electronic ballasts have trouble with is the Radium Blue
(20,000K) lamp. This is because the Radium lamp is actually rated at 160 watts and is designed for use with a HX or Reactor magnetic ballast.

As long as an electronic ballast can operate quartz (quartz glass arc tube) metal halide lamps they will operate single ended (ANSI M102) and double ended (ANSI M81) lamps.

I personally use and recommend electronic ballasts made by the well known lighting manufacturers such as Advance Transformer, Sylvania OSRAM, NAiS (Aromat/Panasonic), PowerSelect and Universal. It’s generally hard to find electronic ballasts with better specifications and quality than those listed. These manufacturers design ballasts to meet or exceed ANSI standards.

The maximum ballast to lamp distance will vary by each ballast. Advance recommends 5 feet and Sylvania recommends 6 feet with typical wiring methods but can be up too 15 feet if low capacitance cable is used (total capacitance of 100 picofarads or less). The other ballasts seem to have a longer length limit.

I just called my main supplier and they do not carry these ballasts anymore. They changed over to Dynamic
(DY) ballasts made my Doo Young Electronics. I’ll be receiving samples for testing but from the specifications I have from the manufacturer these look like cheap over seas imports. I can’t recommend them until I know more and see how these perform.

A few years ago I had a discussion with EYE Lighting about the ballast designations they have for some of the lamps they offer. ANSI M160 is not a common standard. EYE Lighting recommends a M81 for the double-ended 150 watt quartz MH lamps and M102 for single ended 150 watt quartz MH lamps. The new specifications from EYE Lighting now list the new/more common ANSI designations.

Unfortunately at this time I can not source a good 150-watt electronic ballast that I recommend.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

Best regards

AHC Lighting LLC
Paul Erik Hirvonen

This all your fault, you get me started on "best" lighting, and I'm stinky engineer.

 

[rogergolf66]

you spend an lot of money to grow macroalgee. Hell you could grow corals under that lighting. I think that lighting is better then what I have in my main display.

I think you did answer my question though

Thanks

I am going to look for a 6500K bulb.
do I have to use W150s ?

Thanks
Roger

 

[piercho]

I think that lighting is better then what I have in my main display.

You hit the nail on the head. Plant production is high where conditions for it are the best. Best conditions are intense lighting, high rates of gas exchange, and minimal grazing. This isn't a concept that originated with me. Refer Dynamic Aquaria, Adey and Loveland; or Reef Aquarium Volume 3 under the topic of algae turf scrubbers, Delbreek and Sprung. My veg filter light levels very high, my tank light levels only moderate. My veg filter water foamy from water/air mixing in the overflow, gas exchange rates in tank lower. If gas exchange and lighting are highest in the main display, then thats where most algae growth will occur, IMO.

What type (Power Compact, linear flourescent, metal halide) lighting are you looking for a daylight-spectra bulb in? HelloLights has decent selection of bulbs.
Daylight linear
Daylight PC
EYE 150W DE M81
EYE 150W SE M81
EYE 250W SE H37?? (I think, ask Hellolights if this is Color Arc or Color Ace lamp)

 

[rogergolf66]

So the highest intense lighting that I want to use over the refug.

well I have a 175W metal halide
I also have 2 32W powercompacts

would either of these or both do well for the macro algee?

I would get a new bulb for the halide 6500K
the powercompacts are new bulbs 10000K

 

[piercho]

I assume you have a standard US magnetic 175W ballast. Thats a M57 ballast. Look at table 2 in this RC article for 175W bulbs designated as M57 (lamp type PROBE). If your ballast is pulse start, look for bulbs designated as M137/M152 (lamp type PULSE). If your ballast is electronic, it *may* start most 150W or 175W bulbs, but no guarantees.

If you have M57 ballast (standard US ballast), you can use 175W horticultural bulbs with it. These are available from GE, Sylvania, Philips and Venture.
Standard horticultural 175W MH bulbs.

I have not used 175W bulbs and have no personal recommendations.

I have used 10,000K PC bulbs on occassion and have gotten good macroalgae growth and coloration. When using PC I try to mount the bulb very close to the water to get higher light levels, but the downside to that is they have to be cleaned more frequently. One of the main reason I went to the 150W DE Mini-pendant is it is so quick and easy to clean, and retains good light intensity even when mounted a few inches up.

 

[Plantbrain]

Remember that faster growth rates means more work also, and more uptake/faster uptake rates.

So you need to account for that when you drive the system faster.

Adding more light = more Carbon demand= more N=> more P=> more Ca=> more Alk etc.

More is not better for every application, nor is less better really either.
Stability is however a general goal most aquarist seek.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[dragonladylea]

I used every kind of light imaginable on my fuge and then someone told me I was crazy to spend all that money and to use a standard 60w household bulb on 24 hours. Tried it and would switch back, all my algae gows great!

 

[Jeff]

Piercho, with all due respect, you are kind of going WAY overboard. Wanting the best for your hobby and being an elitest are two different things. All the knowledge in the world does not make up for experience and implimenting the KISS theory. Keep It Simple Stupid.
I use it and swear by it.
Read this: Cheap bulb that works wonders and go get one or two depending on your needs. i use it and cant keep my macro growth from exploding. I have undetectable phosphates and nitrates because of the growth in my fuge from these lightbulbs. They last a lot longer then expensive halides and other bulbs.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Those cheap bulbs, by the way do not put out much heat and cost practically nothing to run. If you have a sump under your tank running halides will bring your water to a dangerously high temp.
Melev ( a respected expert in sumps/refuges) swears by them.

 

[rogergolf66]

thanks I just bought the K5100 flood lamp thanks

Roger

 

[Jeff]

You are welcome, you will love the growth and the low cost.

 

[Jeff]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1136880

 

[piercho]

All the knowledge in the world does not make up for experience and implimenting the KISS theory.

I have a requirement for fairly intense light levels delivered from an efficient system that has a low maintenance requirement. CF flood lamps, which I've used (before melev started that thread) fall short of my needs. To quote myself:

You want to generate as high of irradiance as possible for the best production rates, if this is what you mean by “best”. Light source should be spread-spectrum with decent correlation to sunlight.

That is my definition of "best". If "best" means you can culture Chaetomorpha, from my experience and what I've read of others, that is probably more linked to nutrient availability than to lighting. I am a little pricked that you say I don't have adequate experience with reef tanks or plant filters or lighting. I've kept a stony coral and clam tank in continuous operation for 6 years now and used plant export from plant filters as my main means of nutrient regulation for that period and have grown many different export plants under different lighting and flow regimes. As far as KISS: what part of efficient, bright, and easy to maintain falls short of KISS?

 

[Jeff]

Read his origional message. He simply wants to know what kelvin bulbs to use and what photoperiod.

You said: "I am a little pricked that you say I don't have adequate experience with reef tanks or plant filters or lighting. I've kept a stony coral and clam tank in continuous operation for 6 years now"

Interesting choice of words and good for a chuckle but noone including myself wrote anything about experience in the hobby.

What I wanted to get across to him is that myself and others have had a lot of sucess using a $12.00 light fixture instead of extremely hot, expensive lights.

Sorry if you felt you were offended. Keep it simple silly

Jeff

 

[piercho]

Jeff,
if success is defined by growing Chaeto, you can easily do it with a variety of light sources as long as your tank nutrient levels are moderately eutrophic. Its been grown with success under incandescent light.

Metal halide is "cooler" light than flourescent because less heat is transfered to the water than per unit of light delivered to the tank. The PC bulb you have suggested just uses less wattage, produces a fraction of the light, and will deliver and even smaller fraction of the light to the tank.

 

[Jeff]

Sucess is not defined by growing chaeto, either is this thread and its contents. Simply answering Rogers question with tried and true methods is success. Samala, Plantbrain, dragonladylea, and myself all chimed in with answers to Rogers question regarding photperiod and kelvin temps. This hobby and this message board are about learning from others and sharing experience.
If Roger is asking about a light for his main display then halides, I believe, would be the way to go.


Jeff

 

[piercho]

An open-ended question was put as to what lighting was best in a 24" (square?) footprint. I provided an option/opinion and information links, and then more. If any of that was interpreted as a mandate rather than just my personal opinion, I apologize.

FWIW a CF flood lamp is not effective for everyone. When I used a CF flood lamp over my plant filter most algae growth moved to the display tank, where I use fairly strong lighting (250W MH daylight + blue flourescent). FWIW I don't have a need for a chiller or fans with MH over both tanks.

Pointing out the CF flood lamp and providing a link is positive input. Dishing out snide assumptions is not. No one including myself appreciates being called inexperienced, silly, or elitist.