Big news for angelfish fans of RCT
- Thread starter copps
- Start date
We have no right to criticize Frank. I guess we just wish he could once again breed Resplendents and Interruptus like he did before. But that is what we want. We don't know what his priorities are. I for one regret not buying a Resplendent when I had the chance. I remember seeing two of Frank's captive bred Resplendents on Liveaquaria and coming close to buying one but thinking they were too expensive. Needless to say I don't think that way now. How many of us would be willing to buy these captive bred angels for what it costs to produce them. Perhaps we can do a poll to get an idea of the numbers?. If the demand was there may be Frank could change his mind.
takayan
Premium Member
Looks like they arrived in Japan.
http://p.twipple.jp/igunX
http://p.twipple.jp/igunX
skibum9884
Active member
I know Frank isn't planning on breeding these again, but does anyone know the plans going forward (Copps?)? I know he was doing this for a PhD dissertation. I'd love to hear that he's going to give his broodstock to ORA or someone similar in attempt to produce them on a larger scale, however am unsure if they'd be interested given the effort needed to raise the fry.
Another hope is that these 40 fish that are being auctioned will raise enough money that he can move on to some new species (assuming his academic work is done!).
Lastly, I'm hoping that someone can let us know when he's finished his dissertation and can post a link to it here. I'd love to read what was involved in raising these fish.
Another hope is that these 40 fish that are being auctioned will raise enough money that he can move on to some new species (assuming his academic work is done!).
Lastly, I'm hoping that someone can let us know when he's finished his dissertation and can post a link to it here. I'd love to read what was involved in raising these fish.
copps
Premium Member
Well said John...If I ever get to Oahu I hope to meet Frank in person and thank him for his dedication and grass roots research that will only help our hobby for years to come. I also understand the frustration of hobbyists in their desire to own one of these incredible fish.
I am soooo excited to see Frank continuing his extremely important research. The fact that he is able to get some successful hybrids out into the market is just icing on the cake. Back when he had the interruptus and the Resplendent hybrid I was on the waiting list for the interruptus. I was unable to get a pair but Frank offered me a couple of the Resplendent hybrids. I am so happy I took him up on that offer. I lost one about 6 months ago, I think to the spines of my Rabbitfish and I cried...it was a terrible loss for me. I still have one of the two and he is a cool little guy, well worth the price which at that time was the most I had ever spent on a fish. I cant say that now with my candy basslet pair and Earlei wrasse pair, hahahahaha. I remember reading comments about those Resplendent hybrids at the time...about how they looked just like a flameback and you could get one of those for $50. Such negativity! John was one to defend Frank's hard work and now that price seems extremely reasonable, Lol, how times have changed in the hobby. I like to keep the positivity out there as much as possible. I appreciate the passion people have in the hobby and if they have the money, want to spend it, and can provide a wonderful home for any fish or coral, then hat's off to you.
If you get the opportunity, can afford it, and appreciate the incredible work that Frank, by himself, has put into these little guys GO FOR IT!!!
My hope is that Frank will continue his awesome and inspiring work for our hobby and science as a whole, and in the end give us opportunities to enjoy the fruits of his labor
Thank Alicia... and well said too! For those also wondering... Frank is not some science nerd in the lab... well he is in the positive respect... just like I like to think I am... in the positive respect...
While our passions are different on the athletic side, we both have them to this day. I played Tier I youth hockey mite through midget over the border in Upstate New York growing up and went on to play Juniors where I captained my team for a couple of years... I now play in a glorified "beer league" of "has beens" including a Canadian NHL draft pick and his wife who played for the US Olympic team in Torino... . Frank is a world renowned professional wind surfer! You could spend days watching all of his stuff... this video is neat in that he mentions his work with fishies...http://hawaiianx.com/index.php?id=93&option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink
Frank and I also share an intense passion for diving and the ocean... and now... another cheap hobby... underwater photography! Like anything else Frank does... he becomes good at... for those who haven't seen his personal photography site... I am just a newb... I just Bought Frank's old strobes a couple months ago for my Nikon D7000!
http://www.bluereefphoto.org/
And here's an old thread with some of his photos when we went out diving and collecting on one of my Hawaii trips...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1708758
I'm always trying to help Frank out and guide him towards things we angelfish nuts would want... as always Frank is unsure of even what he'll be doing in the future! There are good and bad aspects of that of course. In regards to his broodstock, many times some fish are "on loan" to him and it is not his decision on where they go afterwards. Also, other outlets not having success with Centropyge is not do to lack of broodstock...
In regards to his PhD some of the papers going towards that are already publsihed... here's a couple... including one on his previous Xiphypops hybrid...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1749-7345.2009.00273.x/abstract
http://www.mendeley.com/research/ca...entropyge-fisheri-and-centropyge-resplendens/
Copps
skibum9884
Active member
Thanks John! Very interesting stuff. I have no idea how he collects all of this data (i.e. - # of spawns, etc). Besides sitting in front of the tank all day and night I would think it'd be hard to know. Definitely an interesting science when you deal with living animals.
copps
Premium Member
And to address the concerns about QM auctioning them, the VAST majority of all profits will go directly back to Frank at RCT... in addition to this, the same thing will happen with those offered in the Diver's Den... whatever Live Aquaria sells them for Frank will see the vast majority of the profits. This is a gesture by both QM and LA to encourage and support Frank. QM is a model for the industry on the wholesale side... and LA on the retail side. We hobbyists cannot have it both ways... you can take a stance on one side and that is your opinion... but for those that want more from Frank yet at the same time complain about pricing you are arguing against yourselves without knowing it... Add up the man hours Frank put into these fish and he's making a pittance! People complain they want more while at the same time complain if Frank's fish get market prices.
People for years and years have written me about Centropyge interrupta... and how they'd love to see them here in the states small, and like to see Frank do them again... Well for the first time in forever the US got three when Kevin Kohen at the Diver's Den brought them in, after I introduced him to Koji Wada of Blue Harbor a few years back... I took one and the other two still sit there today with a reduced price in the DD. This is not a complaint on my part... I understand there are few nuts like me... but I simply mention this to address the many people who ask and do not understand why Frank does not breed more than he does.
Simply put... Frank is amazing... I remember meeting someone who knew his PhD adviser and his PhD adviser was awed by his work too!
Copps
copps
Premium Member
Wayne, we just chimed in together... read my comments above... the vast majority of these profits are going back to Frank.
For the people that are upset by this, how do you think this should be done? Should they be sold below market value? Just a legitimate question...
Copps
WayneL333
New member
Thanks for the explanation John. Knowing that the most of the money is going back to Frank makes me feel A LOT better.
As for the Interrupta, they would BOTH be sitting in my tank right now if they were captive bred. I'm terrified that they would eat their worth in corals...too big of a risk for me.
As for the Interrupta, they would BOTH be sitting in my tank right now if they were captive bred. I'm terrified that they would eat their worth in corals...too big of a risk for me.
copps
Premium Member
FWIW Frank, I have probably more experience than anyone with CB angels in reef tanks and with my experience the fact that they are captive bred makes no difference on their coral munching tendencies... for instance I have one of Frank's lemonpeels he did in 2002, not in my large fish only... he was a coral nipper just like his wild buddies! I do a full one hour talk on Centropyge where I break down the "reefsafeness" of Centropyge and the worst are the flavissima complex in the Centropyge subgenus, which includes C. flavissima, C. eibli, and C. vrolikii... these species are really insanely closely related despite their color differences...
So Wayne, I say you better get the interrupta in the DD now... the price has been dropped again! Mark my words after another few years of not seeing them in the US someone will complain they should have bought these when they were available...
Copps
WayneL333
New member
FWIW Frank, I have probably more experience than anyone with CB angels in reef tanks and with my experience the fact that they are captive bred makes no difference on their coral munching tendencies... for instance I have one of Frank's lemonpeels he did in 2002, not in my large fish only... he was a coral nipper just like his wild buddies! I do a full one hour talk on Centropyge where I break down the "reefsafeness" of Centropyge and the worst are the flavissima complex in the Centropyge subgenus, which includes C. flavissima, C. eibli, and C. vrolikii... these species are really insanely closely related despite their color differences...
So Wayne, I say you better get the interrupta in the DD now... the price has been dropped again! Mark my words after another few years of not seeing them in the US someone will complain they should have bought these when they were available...
Copps
Oh man...John...I'm glad I've been saving up for this moment. I had a pair of Frank's original captive bred Interrupta and they were model citizens. I have no experience with wild pygmy angels so I am bit apprehensive. If they turn out to be coral nippers, I would have no choice but to sell them and it looks like I would probably have to sell them at a discount.
But the risk may be worth it if what you say is true about the impending drought. I put my bid in so I'm gonna see what happens. If I don't win the auction, then I might have to take the risk with the Interrupta.
Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us John.
copps
Premium Member
No sweat Wayne... I'm happy to share my experiences and happy to have an audience... God knows my wife doesn't want to hear it!:spin3:
I have experience with both captive and wild interrupta in reefs and you have no need to worry... especially with small specimens such as those... I was at Live Aquaria in Rhinelander, Wisconsin the day they arrived!
They are spectacular and bulletproof. As Nike says... Just do it! People always ask me about my fish collection... "What if it dies?"... I respond by saying that my fish may die but my memories will live forever! We are paying for an experience... the fish WILL die... hopefully later rather than sooner... but again... the memories live forever (at least with me). When we are on our deathbeds we will never be regretting how much we paid for a fish, but may regret memories we didn't make... :spin3:I have no sympathy for you Yuri... you have too many fascinating Pomacanthids there in South Africa to keep you busy, including the one in your avatar!
In regards to the resplendens x interrupta hybrid, resplendens is the second smallest Centropyge... interrupta is the largest... that would be like trying to cross a Great Dane with a Chihuahua!:frog:
Oh, and one note for all in terms of the proper scientific name for the Japanese Pygmy Angel... it is Centropyge interrupta, and not Centropyge interruptus. Years ago it was realized that the genus Centropyge was feminine and not masculine, resulting in SOME of the -us species being changed to -a (for many reasons most people do not care about except nuts like me)... Interrupta got changed because it is a descriptive adjective...
Copps
Yurivd
New member
Terra Ferma
New member
Hi John - no comment about the Brazilian Flameback thing? :fun2:
No sweat Wayne... I'm happy to share my experiences and happy to have an audience... God knows my wife doesn't want to hear it!:spin3:
I have experience with both captive and wild interrupta in reefs and you have no need to worry... especially with small specimens such as those... I was at Live Aquaria in Rhinelander, Wisconsin the day they arrived!
I have no sympathy for you Yuri... you have too many fascinating Pomacanthids there in South Africa to keep you busy, including the one in your avatar!
In regards to the resplendens x interrupta hybrid, resplendens is the second smallest Centropyge... interrupta is the largest... that would be like trying to cross a Great Dane with a Chihuahua!:frog:
Oh, and one note for all in terms of the proper scientific name for the Japanese Pygmy Angel... it is Centropyge interrupta, and not Centropyge interruptus. Years ago it was realized that the genus Centropyge was feminine and not masculine, resulting in SOME of the -us species being changed to -a (for many reasons most people do not care about except nuts like me)... Interrupta got changed because it is a descriptive adjective...
Copps
I don't want to offend anyone but from a fish availability and pricepoint perspective, you guys don't realise how lucky you are. We aren't even allowed to import any aquacultured fish at all.
On the very rare occasions a fish like C. interrupta is imported we pay top dollar which would be significantly more than the asking price on DD. Finally I'd be thrilled to hve the opportunity to buy imported well conditioned fish let alone if it comes with a guarantee (guarantees are unheard of here too).
Just some food for thought...
:thumbsup:
On the very rare occasions a fish like C. interrupta is imported we pay top dollar which would be significantly more than the asking price on DD. Finally I'd be thrilled to hve the opportunity to buy imported well conditioned fish let alone if it comes with a guarantee (guarantees are unheard of here too).
Just some food for thought...
:thumbsup:
velvetelvis
Active member
Good points. We Yanks are spoiled--we're used to almost unlimited choices.
copps
Premium Member
An interrupta/ joculator is much more of a possiblility... as both species are in the same complex in their subgenus... the "multicolor" complex of the Centropyge subgenus... but I personally believe these two species would not form a pair in captivity... although the sperm from one would fertilize the egg and be viable I'm sure...
If this was a joking comment I try to stay away... I've seen so many good threads go downhill that I've put this comment in my signature...
"Yes, we know, there's a cheaper and prettier fish than the one we're talking about."
If your comment was serious... it's no coincidence they look the same. All three Atlantic Centropyge species are a result of a few dozen Centropyge acanthops larvae making it from the Indian Ocean and around South Africa and settling on the coast of Brazil... VERY RECENTLY... within the last 500,000 years! From these fish came the Brazilian flameback Centropyge aurantonota... and from these came Centropyge argi... and two waves of larvae out to Ascension have resulted in Centropyge resplendens... Xiphypops larvae travels FAR... Centropyge aurantonota has even now been documented in West Africa... thus making it all the way across the Atlantic!!
Copps
