Thanks a bunch, Habib.
I can't quite make out the bromide value. What is it? Is it really 6 ppm?
I can't quite make out the bromide value. What is it? Is it really 6 ppm?
BIO-SEA® Marinemix: THe untold story
- Thread starter Randy Holmes-Farley
- Start date
As always you're welcome. 
I can't quite make out the bromide value. What is it? Is it really 6 ppm?
Should I send the Finnish translation so you can read/understand it better?
On the original fax I received from them it is 6 ppm BUT I noted an additional space before the comma. Perhaps they meant 60 and typed a space instead of a zero.
HTH
I can't quite make out the bromide value. What is it? Is it really 6 ppm?
Should I send the Finnish translation so you can read/understand it better?
On the original fax I received from them it is 6 ppm BUT I noted an additional space before the comma. Perhaps they meant 60 and typed a space instead of a zero.
HTH
Yes, I thought that's what it looked like. Perhaps that's a not too clever way of making the result ambiguous. You'd think Dr. Qihong Shil would have proof read a certified analysis before he signed it.
You'd think Dr. Qihong Shil would have proof read a certified analysis before he signed it.
Rick Davis
Premium Member
I am one of the few who recently switched to the Aquacraft salt (I use Marine Environment) and I was curious why it had so much lithium and if the extra lithium was intentional by the Mfg.
I swear my fish are more relaxed. I may start adding some of the salt to my food.
Anyway, after a couple of months of changing about 75% of tank water from IO to Aquacraft ME, all fish and acros are doing fine and my mysis population has really grown. BTW, this salt mixes very clear in a few hours.
Will keep you posted.
I swear my fish are more relaxed. I may start adding some of the salt to my food.
Anyway, after a couple of months of changing about 75% of tank water from IO to Aquacraft ME, all fish and acros are doing fine and my mysis population has really grown. BTW, this salt mixes very clear in a few hours.
Will keep you posted.
Rick Davis
Premium Member
Chriss
I don't have a Mg test kit - may get one in the future.
I think the Ca & Alk use has been about the same. I use Kalk and B-Ionic and I have been dosing about the same B-Ionic over the past 2 months (my system is about 70 gallons).
Sorry, not much help. What have you noticed with your tank?
I don't have a Mg test kit - may get one in the future.
I think the Ca & Alk use has been about the same. I use Kalk and B-Ionic and I have been dosing about the same B-Ionic over the past 2 months (my system is about 70 gallons).
Sorry, not much help. What have you noticed with your tank?
You'd think Dr. Qihong Shil would have proof read a certified analysis before he signed it.
He being a chemist probably can't proof-read.
BTW its Shi and not Shil , you didn't read it carefully. But never mind you're a chemist.
:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:
He being a chemist probably can't proof-read.
BTW its Shi and not Shil , you didn't read it carefully. But never mind you're a chemist.
:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:
I switched as soon as Ron's article came out (well within about 4 days - had to wait on ups)
I've noticed more copepods, amphipods and mysis shrimp, but my mg levels dropped to 1050 after a water change and a week later was down to 920. Have been having problems increasing mg and I believe it is effecting my ca & alk levels as well because I have been having to dose large quantities of bionic a & b along with kalk that is dosed by my nilsen reactor.
I've never had a problem before keeping up with ca & alk with just the kalk reactor and my mg level was always good before switching. And I used to have a lot more large acro colonies than I do now ~ I sold off all my acro colonies in Dec & Jan and just have frags left (most are 2 inches or less - a few are larger, but not yet what I would consider colony size.)...
The only thing I can figure it to be is the salt mix. When this batch of salt is gone, I will probably be switching to crystal sea bio-assay marine mix since I purchased some of that at the same time as the Bio-Sea.
Was hoping to see if anyone else was encountering this as well or if i just got a bad batch of salt mix. (And if that's the case, I really don't find it acceptable since I expect consistency in the mixes)...
Chris
I've noticed more copepods, amphipods and mysis shrimp, but my mg levels dropped to 1050 after a water change and a week later was down to 920. Have been having problems increasing mg and I believe it is effecting my ca & alk levels as well because I have been having to dose large quantities of bionic a & b along with kalk that is dosed by my nilsen reactor.
I've never had a problem before keeping up with ca & alk with just the kalk reactor and my mg level was always good before switching. And I used to have a lot more large acro colonies than I do now ~ I sold off all my acro colonies in Dec & Jan and just have frags left (most are 2 inches or less - a few are larger, but not yet what I would consider colony size.)...
The only thing I can figure it to be is the salt mix. When this batch of salt is gone, I will probably be switching to crystal sea bio-assay marine mix since I purchased some of that at the same time as the Bio-Sea.
Was hoping to see if anyone else was encountering this as well or if i just got a bad batch of salt mix. (And if that's the case, I really don't find it acceptable since I expect consistency in the mixes)...
Chris
saltshop
Premium Member
....so if the "independent" analysis that Habib posted is correct and we use Ron's IO numbers (since they were lower than the A&B article) we get IO having 15x more Zinc, 18x more Copper, 100x more Nickel, and 340x more Cobalt than Crystal Sea? Now if I remember correctly all of these have been found to be toxic to one marine life form or another in rather small concentrations. I also recall seeing some work stating that as far as Zinc, Nickel, and Cobalt are concerned all are rather rapidly and nearly completely complexed by organic ligands or bound to Manganese Oxides in sea water which would drastically reduce toxicity...so now what to think? I am pretty sure cobalt is rapidly scavenged by cyanobacteria since it is needed in the nitrogen fixation process so if you don't want cyano switch to CSBA? 
I think he meant between ratio between Crystal Sea/NSW and IO.
I never made a commnet about the stastical significance between those, so he must have misunderstood if that's what he meant.
While CS says right on their label that their product does not contain EDTA, for all practical purposes they will have to use some buffer/chelator to make their product work. IO does and that explains the
For those reading this thread that did not see similar posts elsewhere, Instant Ocean does not contain EDTA.
I never made a commnet about the stastical significance between those, so he must have misunderstood if that's what he meant.
While CS says right on their label that their product does not contain EDTA, for all practical purposes they will have to use some buffer/chelator to make their product work. IO does and that explains the
For those reading this thread that did not see similar posts elsewhere, Instant Ocean does not contain EDTA.
Justin:
...and we use Ron's IO numbers (since they were lower than the A&B article) we ...
I don't think you may make the comparison.
- We don't know if the "Independent" results are correct.
- Ron used the A&B figures because he had (IIRC) not enough confidence in the IO water prepared by the hobbyist.
The A&B figures are very likely incorrect for recent IO batches.
we get IO having 15x more Zinc, 18x more Copper, 100x more Nickel, and 340x more Cobalt than Crystal Sea?
If what I have written here above is reasonable then such a comparison can't be made IMO.
I am pretty sure cobalt is rapidly scavenged by cyanobacteria
Ever measured Co during Cyano blooms?
FWIW I have and no there is plenty of Co in the water and is hardly depeleted. I know NSW around reefs contains some B12.
...and we use Ron's IO numbers (since they were lower than the A&B article) we ...
I don't think you may make the comparison.
- We don't know if the "Independent" results are correct.
- Ron used the A&B figures because he had (IIRC) not enough confidence in the IO water prepared by the hobbyist.
The A&B figures are very likely incorrect for recent IO batches.
we get IO having 15x more Zinc, 18x more Copper, 100x more Nickel, and 340x more Cobalt than Crystal Sea?
If what I have written here above is reasonable then such a comparison can't be made IMO.
I am pretty sure cobalt is rapidly scavenged by cyanobacteria
Ever measured Co during Cyano blooms?
FWIW I have and no there is plenty of Co in the water and is hardly depeleted. I know NSW around reefs contains some B12.
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I agree the confusion stems from the similar names that these products use. And I've read in other posts that Instant Ocean, in the past, does contain EDTA. I don't remember where I read it, there are so many threads in different forums that it's hard to track. Anyone?
Jim
saltshop
Premium Member
Originally posted by Habib
I don't think you may make the comparison.
- We don't know if the "Independent" results are correct.
That is why I used "independent" in quotes as it appeared to part of their marketing material. Not real confident myself that it is accurate.
Ron used the A&B figures because he had (IIRC) not enough confidence in the IO water prepared by the hobbyist.
The A&B figures are very likely incorrect for recent IO batches.
No, I was comparing it to the "fresh" Instant Ocean sample that Ron made up and was part of the control in the very first article 02/2002. It was not prepared by the hobbyists, but by Ron with RO/DI water...although it sat for 2 weeks in an FDA container. This "control sample" had consideribly lower HM than was the case in A & B which is probably outdated.
"There were 24 samples analyzed: 23 aquarium samples, and one sample, of Instant Ocean(tm) (IO), prepared with 0 total dissolved solids RO/DI, mixed to 35 ppt, and stored for two weeks prior to testing in an FDA food-grade container."
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.htm
Ever measured Co during Cyano blooms?
FWIW I have and no there is plenty of Co in the water and is hardly depeleted. I know NSW around reefs contains some B12.
No, what was the speciation of the Co? 301 page thesis on the Biogeochemistry of Cobalt in sea water...happy reading! FWIW, I have been unable to make it through all 301 pages before my brain goes numb and I start to drink heavily.
http://www.princeton.edu/~msaito/Saito_Thesis.pdf
I don't think you may make the comparison.
- We don't know if the "Independent" results are correct.
That is why I used "independent" in quotes as it appeared to part of their marketing material. Not real confident myself that it is accurate.
Ron used the A&B figures because he had (IIRC) not enough confidence in the IO water prepared by the hobbyist.
The A&B figures are very likely incorrect for recent IO batches.
No, I was comparing it to the "fresh" Instant Ocean sample that Ron made up and was part of the control in the very first article 02/2002. It was not prepared by the hobbyists, but by Ron with RO/DI water...although it sat for 2 weeks in an FDA container. This "control sample" had consideribly lower HM than was the case in A & B which is probably outdated.
"There were 24 samples analyzed: 23 aquarium samples, and one sample, of Instant Ocean(tm) (IO), prepared with 0 total dissolved solids RO/DI, mixed to 35 ppt, and stored for two weeks prior to testing in an FDA food-grade container."
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.htm
Ever measured Co during Cyano blooms?
FWIW I have and no there is plenty of Co in the water and is hardly depeleted. I know NSW around reefs contains some B12.
No, what was the speciation of the Co?
301 page thesis on the Biogeochemistry of Cobalt in sea water...happy reading! FWIW, I have been unable to make it through all 301 pages before my brain goes numb and I start to drink heavily.http://www.princeton.edu/~msaito/Saito_Thesis.pdf
TheNomadRhodes
New member
Salt
Salt
Hiya every one I know I may be jumping in to this a little late.
But I have a 120g and a 24g Nano.
And when I do a water change every 2 months I've used a different salt, Kent,IO,Red sea, and Oceanic Salt. and now i'm going to try this Crystal sea stuff.
i've used all these salts and i've really never seen any differents in my fish or corals, I'm no chemist or Scientist.
From what i've heard from reefers is all salt is pretty much the same.
The only thing I really care about is how well does it mix and dose it make the water cloudy. I've never had any thing bleach after I've switched salts. maybe I'm just lucky.
Does the salt really matter? if you do a water change and dont over feed and all that shoudnt you be able to grow any thing you want in the tank?
Its like motor oil, its all pretty much the same no matter what they say or how much it cost if you dont take of the Machain it will end badly..thats where I come in
That coming from a Truck driver/ industrial mechanic with bad grammer :crazy1: who likes to throw his two cents in:hammer:
Salt
Hiya every one I know I may be jumping in to this a little late.
But I have a 120g and a 24g Nano.
And when I do a water change every 2 months I've used a different salt, Kent,IO,Red sea, and Oceanic Salt. and now i'm going to try this Crystal sea stuff.
i've used all these salts and i've really never seen any differents in my fish or corals, I'm no chemist or Scientist.
From what i've heard from reefers is all salt is pretty much the same.
The only thing I really care about is how well does it mix and dose it make the water cloudy. I've never had any thing bleach after I've switched salts. maybe I'm just lucky.
Does the salt really matter? if you do a water change and dont over feed and all that shoudnt you be able to grow any thing you want in the tank?
Its like motor oil, its all pretty much the same no matter what they say or how much it cost if you dont take of the Machain it will end badly..thats where I come in
That coming from a Truck driver/ industrial mechanic with bad grammer :crazy1: who likes to throw his two cents in:hammer:
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