black ray gobies.

[gogo7]

this is the male(?). or what i've been thinking is the male. i rarely see the other. i'm beginning to think that the distended jaw in the other is the trait of a mouthbrooder. and in my experience, it's the male that carries the eggs in the mouth.
it would explain how this fish goes from really fat to this is a day. so i think i'm gonna start calling this the female and the mostly absent fish the male.

a shot of a shrimp fanning the entrance to the tunnels. and some goby shots.

 

[gogo7]

 

[kizanne]

Most awesome post to date!!! are you just culturing the ciliates in phyto, in one of your posts you indicated you thought they didn't eat phyto. I've read a little yeast with those guys.

 

[gogo7]

Most awesome post to date!!! are you just culturing the ciliates in phyto, in one of your posts you indicated you thought they didn't eat phyto. I've read a little yeast with those guys.

hi kizanne. i feed the ciliates yeast and phyto. they're mostly bacteriavores and i think they eat the bacteria that feeds on the decaying yeast and phyto cells. i also read somewhere that they eat the yeast cells as well, but not phyto. i keep adding it though, just for certainty. i'll keep isolating the different ciliates and try different feeds.
one way i got one of the cilates was with the good old fashioned boiled cabbage method. the smell is intense, but it worked to give me ciliates in abundance. i won't be using the cabbage method again until i feel i need to. it's a stinky mess that i play with too much.

one thing i'm learning is that sg is not so important in the ciliate world. adn by that, i mean that each culture varies in sg. i think it was B that was a fresh water ciliate i am now culturing in salt water. it might have been A.
without a microscope, i can't be certain , but basic observation is leading me to that conclusion.

as a side note, monday morning and no goby larvae. of course..now i'm ready for them, i got no babies.
i'll let you know when i get the next batch.

 

[kizanne]

The last articles I read on ciliates (advanced aquarist) they thought they might be good but no one was using them. Do you have some article that they are now using them or have figured out fish will eat them?

 

[gogo7]

The last articles I read on ciliates (advanced aquarist) they thought they might be good but no one was using them. Do you have some article that they are now using them or have figured out fish will eat them?

just what i read from plankton culture manual..plus moes work.
the manual mentions that damsels and clowns were fed ciliates as first feed, but without nutritional values. that's why i think i add the phyto. to 'gut load'.
it just makes sense to me. smaller fish eat smaller things.
one thing i've noticed is that these are even easier to keep than rotifers. they do polyculture with the rotis and pods. but they can take a day without feed.

 

[kizanne]

I know who Moe is, I am wondering do you have a reference I can read. Post, article or book. I too agree smaller fish, smaller food makes sense.

 

[gogo7]

I know who Moe is, I am wondering do you have a reference I can read. Post, article or book. I too agree smaller fish, smaller food makes sense.

sorry kizanne.
i'm not good at the paper work. here's some reading from my history... i think there's more, but these were helpful ..

'Act together"”implications of symbioses in aquatic ciliates'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3413206/

'Top-down impact by copepods on ciliate numbers and persistence depends on copepod and ciliate species composition'


http://plankt.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/5/499.full


'Filter and suspension feeders'

http://www.coralscience.org/main/articles/aquaculture-a-husbandry-4/filter-feeders


'Behavioral Interactions of the Copepod Temora turbinata with Potential Ciliate Prey'

http://zoolstud.sinica.edu.tw/Journals/49.2/157.pdf

'How It's Made - Oysters '

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVNdl_1ti-s

'Ciliated Protozoans as Alternative Live Food for First Feeding Red Snapper, Lutjanus campechanus, Larvae '

http://aquaticcommons.org/13958/1/gcfi_57-71.pdf


this should help understand where my head is at with the ciliates at the moment. i really need a scope where i can document this.

 

[kizanne]

These are some excellent resources. Thank you.

 

[um02122]

Congratulations on your work.

I think that raising fish fry in the reef tank with the parents doesn't work because the fry will be eaten by the parents, all sorts of bristle worms and even by amphipods.

Having to feed such small larvae, I would think you should attempt to obtain ss-strain rotifers and make sure you don't contaminate the culture with copepods as they would eat the rotifers.

I'm interested in your thread as I've got two goby pairs in a goby tank, a Amblyeleotris latifasciata pair and a Stonogobiops yasha pair and I've been offered offsprings from one of them, likely the A. latifasciata. I haven't attempted any breeding as the larvae are very small and I wouldn't waste my time unless I'll find a way to obtain the south asian ss-strain rotifers.

I remember reading a breeding thread for Stonogobiops yasha on a marine breeding forum. The attempts were successful in rearing the tiny ones up to four weeks, and the guy took detailed photos of larvae at different stages. Hope it helps.

 

[kizanne]

Yes the ss is on my list to obtain. I currently have the L strain. I have several copepods but I'm waiting on my microscope to id them. I haven't had much luck raising the copepods yet.

 

[gogo7]

update here...sorry i haven't posted in a while...i haven't had any new clutches. i think they go through cycles, i've been seeing the pair out and feeding quite a lot . i've only been feeding the pair live adult brine shrimp and amhipods. they are constantly plucking copepods from the water column. the copepod population gets topped up every few days or so.
the ciliate culture of ciliate C has stabilized. ciliate A is gone. over run by tigriops.
i'm dosing my dt vase rearing vase about 60ml of 15ish cnt per mil. of ciliate C. it's smaller than L type torifers and moves in a similar fashion. it's a paramecium type ciliate, and turns green on a phyto diet. i've s
i have been putting the larva into my two and a half gallon vase. it's loaded with planktons and no predators. no such luck yet. the pistols haven't let their babies go yet.

i've been observing the adults and i'm convinced that the female is the one that hangs out at the tunnel entrance, while the male tends to the nest.(s)
here's the female fat and displaying war wounds from breeding

here's the unscarred side

and here's the male.

here's ciliate C-02, without copepod infestation

ciliate C polycultured with rotifers and harp copepods.

i'm maintaing these zooplanktons on bakers yeast and live phytos. dunaliella, nanno, and iso.
as a side note, my corals seem to love the ciliate feed. my gonis really spread out this passed few weeks. but it could be anything...

 

[gogo7]

Yes the ss is on my list to obtain. I currently have the L strain. I have several copepods but I'm waiting on my microscope to id them. I haven't had much luck raising the copepods yet.

what kind of pods are you working with kiz?.. i can sympathize. i need a scope too. i really would like a better pic of what im cultivating..
found a neat way to get my harpies to bloom... i poly cultured them with brine shimp. they seem to thrive on the empty cyst shells that settle on the bottom.

 

[gogo7]

Congratulations on your work.

I think that raising fish fry in the reef tank with the parents doesn't work because the fry will be eaten by the parents, all sorts of bristle worms and even by amphipods.

Having to feed such small larvae, I would think you should attempt to obtain ss-strain rotifers and make sure you don't contaminate the culture with copepods as they would eat the rotifers.

I'm interested in your thread as I've got two goby pairs in a goby tank, a Amblyeleotris latifasciata pair and a Stonogobiops yasha pair and I've been offered offsprings from one of them, likely the A. latifasciata. I haven't attempted any breeding as the larvae are very small and I wouldn't waste my time unless I'll find a way to obtain the south asian ss-strain rotifers.

I remember reading a breeding thread for Stonogobiops yasha on a marine breeding forum. The attempts were successful in rearing the tiny ones up to four weeks, and the guy took detailed photos of larvae at different stages. Hope it helps.

yes, i read that article, i think it was a part of the inspiration for my gobie reef vase. i'm definitely gonna try another species of gobie soon. same setup, no corals, or just some softies. i thought of draculas... if i can get ss rotis, i will, but i've been busy...but ciliates..... i tell ya, i found a new hobby. i just need a better microscope.

 

[kizanne]

My scope comes in today. I hope it is as good as my mind has hyped it. I bought several pods when I first started my DT and I dumped some in the display and tried to keep some. But I bought my algae at the same time and the cultured pods didn't make it. You can laugh but it took me a while just to keep my rots going. (I have L strain). Once the scope gets here I'm going to start tracking down my different pods and trying to identify them. I have a fairly small pelagic type in my tank. And a larger glass sitter. Since I bought a variety early I believe I have tisbe and maybe tigger. But I also have live rock so it could be anything. I also have some whip worms (that's their name until I can ID them). They showed up in my rotifer debris but since they whip around an back and forth they don't seem like a ciliate (and I don't know if they are bad). I be posting some pictures soon I'm sure for help with the ID. My inlaws are visiting today so that will slow me down alittle with my new microscope.

 

[gogo7]

they're at it again.

i came home to thirty or forty fry in the top water column. they were differing sizes and all looked hungry. i cajoled adozen or two into a make shift float cup. three ounce with an air line edge to keep it afloat. holes pricked into the cup to allow for exchange. small enough to keep the fry in. i've given three shots of 1o mls each time of rotifers-ciliate-phyto combo. i'm gonna be up for a few more hours, so i'll be keeping my eye out. i'm contemplating a teeny tiny dose of reef roids... i tried it last time and saw an immediate feeding response, but couldn't verify if they were eating it. i'm gonna sacrifice one for the crappy microscope.
they're gonna make it through the night . i've got the plankton to feed them. and i'm gonna be up for a few hours baby sitting. they're in their parents tank, but in a tiny cup. the plankton count is high. unfortunately, i'm only using L type rotis, but the ciliates are my first time using a culture i've actually tried to maintain. and i haven't actually looked at them yet. ciliate c-o2. i think it's a euplotes sp. i've also got some plankton 'mulm'. it has tiny worms, small copepods and all that bacteria that might be feeding something my baby gobies might eat.
it's been a couple months since the parents had a clutch of babies. this is their seventh clutch. i discovered them around eight pm. it's thursday. if they're as regular as they were before, there will be another clutch next thursday.
i am really going to take this a little more seriously this time

here's a pic of the phyto copepod mix from tonight before lights out.
i'm going hunting after lights out, hoping they're gonna put out the rest of the clutch tonight.

 

[Auston]

Hope they make it

 

[gogo7]

rotifer-ciliate combo, about ten mils

me too, auston, me too.

 

[Auston]

Check out my current problem lol http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2486218

 

[ichthyogeek]

Good luck!! Have you tried using small copepod species, like Parvocalanus spp? Their nauplii might be small enough to be eaten.

How did you pair your gobies? Do you know if they're gonochoristic, or do they change sex?