blue ring

[Thales]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10209557#post10209557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Opcn
Zoa's can't do a thing to you unless you are really stupid and do one of the big reef no-no's like reaching in to the tank with broken skin or touching your face/mouth/eating with out washing your hands.

I think that is kind of unfair, and pretty much the same thing you wrote above can be applied to blue rings 'Blue rings can't do a thing to you unless you are really stupid...'

I don't think you and I are really on different pages in regards to blue rings.

Paly toxin is a real danger to hobbyists, and people do get sick from it, in greater percentages than people have been bitten by blue rings, but we don't see anyone calling for LFS to disclosure this information pre sale.

 

[Thurge]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10209514#post10209514 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Thales
How do you guys feel about LFS selling zoa's?

well put.

I think the point he was eluding to is that its pretty funny to read people ranting about BRO's, when there are things in just about EVERYONE's tank that are just as if not more toxic than a Blue Ring Octopus. They are possibly even more dangerous because of their benign nature, where as with a BRO just about anyone who keeps one should be aware of their nature. In all reality I would say there is more of a chance of a child reaching into a tank and plucking one of the pretty colored Zoanthids in the tank because it reminded the child of the colors in popcicles looked "tasty", than one reaching into a tank with a BRO and being bitten.

In short manage your responsibilities, before you worry about managing mine. A polite, Just in case you didn't know, warning is fine, we all want to learn from others and share out knowledge. But when you write paragraphs and repeatedly rant about your beliefs then all you do is turn peope off to your message, and you.

 

[Opcn]

The Blue ring precautions are species specific, so they constitute a little less ignorance.

Bottom line however, don't be an idiot and you wont have a problem, survival of the fittest any one?

 

[rabidcrab]

word

 

[TankFabricator]

bulldragon's thread?

bulldragon's thread?

Wow, It's been interesting to see how this thread started and how it turned out! Everyone has great imput. On, the other hand, It's amazing how predictable many comments where. Kinda like how you know how the "media" is gonna tell you about the dangers of pitbull's every time a dogfighting ring comes down. You just know that a whole heap of critisizm and plenty of b.s. opinions are about to fly through your ears. I'm 100% all for warning people about the dangers of venomous animals. Please don't take any of this the wrong way. I would however like to point out, that bulldragon post says he has experience with octos and It's seems as though that was disregarded. Also, that he's had experience with venomous reptiles. True there is antivenom for reptiles and not for blue-rings, BUT this is not really a great point considering most venomous snake hobbyist don't carry their own antivenom. In most cases, it's simply too expensive and you need multiple vials to sustain a decent recovery. Some people think that hospitols carry antivenom, and they do, but for native animals. Imagine telling the ambulance, "I was bit by a wagler's temple viper"..... hope you grab an atlas of reptiles on your way to the stretcher! Some hospitals carry "antivenom cocktails", what I'm reffering to are antivenoms that may combat numerous varieties of venom as long as they have the same damaging effect . These are still being experimented with and may be able to treat things other than snakebites as well. Something many people on here may not understand is the husbandry practices of today's HOT reptile keeper. Many people keep their venomous reptiles with NEVER touching them. Im Not talking about using snake sticks, tongs, hooks, etc. What Im talking about is methods of caging. Most venomous reptiles are kept in very special enclosures. These enclosures ensure the animal has NO chance of ever even coming in contact with its owner. The owner can do maintance to the cage, clean, feed, water, etc.. and the animal is not even disturbed!! I would HOPE that anyone who cares for a blue-ring octo would implement all the saftey features used today in venomous herptoculture, plus responsibility and maturity in dealing with all aspects of the husbandry of their specific animal. Oh, and there are plenty of more old-school venomous reptile keepers that enjoy or prefer handling there animals, especially those that work with Elapids(they seem to "tame down"). These people might want to stay away from a blue-ring. Slimy little boogers lol! Sorry for my rant... guess I've just seen the tang police beat the hell out of this web site, and I love it here

 

[TankFabricator]

Wow i just realized I stink with my words!!
"Everyone has great input. On the other hand...."
Sheesh I sound rude... my sincere apologies if that offended anyone.

 

[ryan_paskadi]

Most octos have a small amount of toxin in their bite.

Blue rings are cheap. They seem to be one of the cheapest most readily available octos on the market at around $15 US. With that said don’t buy it, don’t own it, just leave it alone. It is not worth it. You cannot convince me that there is any good reason to own one.

Animals are not meant to be show pieces. If you want an octopus because they are amazing animals just get one that cannot kill you.

 

[Jambi]

I dont see why you couldnt just attempt to keep a blue ring, with a lid on your tank. That basically voids almost any chance of it escaping, and the chances of you getting bitten are very small if you dont put your hand near it. You're taking a bigger risk commuting to work. That is all in my opinion. I'm 16 and I've been researching blue rings alot lately, because my LFS gets them for about 30$ a pop. When i have the $$ to set up another tank Ive considered purchasing one.

 

[Gonodactylus]

JAMBI

There are many issues that have been hashed over many times to the point that people are getting very bored hearing them. For me the major issue is accessibility. Can you guarantee that someone who does not know or understand the danger will not open the tank and attempt to touch the animal or that one wont crawl out of the tank (believe me it happens. I've kept hundreds of blue-rings in what we thought were secure tanks and several have escaped) and someone will try to pick it up to rescue it. You are 16. Do you have a little brother or sister who might want to show it to your friends? Three or for teens showing off can easly dare one another to touch it when you are out of the room. The scenarios are endless how an envenomation might happen and the one most likely is the one you haven't thought of. Is it really worth the risk to you?

Beyond that, any retailer who knowingly sold a deadly animal to a 16 year old would be in serious legal trouble should an accident happen.

Roy

 

[Jambi]

I agree with what you're saying but most of that falls under the lines of what everyone else has been saying, and that is "dont do something stupid." Though you are a very experienced person and know more about this area than anyone else on the site, so listening to you would probably be the smart thing to do. I also didnt read every post on this thread only the first few, so sorry if I repeated some things other people had said. Also, if I did buy it, technically I would have been selling it to myself because they have attempted to hire me several times and I'm taking the job as soon as lifeguarding season is over.

 

[Thales]

Roy's point about escape proof not being escape proof is a really, really good point. A blue ring is not the animal you want to test escapability with.

 

[zuzecawi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10209557#post10209557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Opcn
Zoa's can't do a thing to you unless you are really stupid and do one of the big reef no-no's like reaching in to the tank with broken skin or touching your face/mouth/eating with out washing your hands.

Have to say, this comment really hit a nerve. I used to have a mixed reef, soft and sps, and I was NEVER EVER warned that zoanthids were toxic. I was happily fragging away at some montipora, and unbenownst to me, I sliced a hichhiking zoa in half on the bottom side of the monti. I wiped my hair out of my face with my arm, not thinking a thing of it. Somehow a trickle of moisture got down to the side of my mouth, and within a matter of minutes, my mouth and throat went numb, my heart rate started getting erratic, and I began having difficulty breathing. My throat and esophagus swelled up and I barely managed to dial 911. After several shots of epinephrine and a ambulance ride, they had to force a tube down my throat. I recovered, obviously, but it sucked. All the skin on the inside of my mouth and throat turned white and molted off, I couldn't eat for days, I lost more weight than healthy in a weeks time. The doctors were completely puzzled, they had no clue what caused such a massive allergic reaction. I threw away the frags I'd been working on when I got home and didn't think about it until a few weeks later when I read the zoa's killed my dog thread. Then I went to the lfs and asked about it, thinking it had to be a joke. They said oh yeah, palyotoxin, it's nothing to worry about, just don't eat your coral.

So go ahead and point fingers and talk about how only stupidity can get people hurt. To this day, my sensitivity to coral is so strong that even normally innocuous things like plate corals and mushrooms can make my arm tingle and swell. I have a fear of zoanthids so strong now that just looking at them makes me sick to stomach. I research every fish and coral that goes into my tank now to the point of obsession.

DON'T TRUST THE LFS TO DISCLOSE ALL HAZARDS.

STUPIDITY IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HURT YOU.

just my 02 cents worth.

 

[nynex]

Robert Fenner who is a noted Author on marine life, Marine Biologist, Diver and
who has been involved in the Aquarium industry and adviser to many Public
Aquariums for over 35 years... has said over and over again how these Blue Rings
need to be Boycott..

From the research he has done...and studying incidents that have happened. He
said if you get poisoned by a blue ring...most likely you will be dead in about 5 to
10 mins. The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball, but its venom is powerful
enough to kill humans. There is no known antidote.

The octopus produces venom that contains tetrodotoxin, 5-hydroxytryptamine,
hyaluronidase, tyramine, histamine, tryptamine, octopamine, taurine,
acetylcholine, and dopamine. The major neurotoxin component of blue-ringed
octopus venom was originally known as maculotoxin, but was later found to be
identical to tetrodotoxin, a neurotoxin which is also found in pufferfish and cone
snails. Tetrodotoxin blocks sodium channels, causing motor paralysis and
sometimes respiratory arrest leading to cardiac arrest due to a lack of oxygen. The
toxin is created by bacteria in the salivary glands of the octopus...

Surely not enough time for the ambulance to even get to you. I dont know who
would ever want to keep a species so dangerous...Leave it in the Ocean...

 

[Thales]

Sadly, boycotts don't do much is a supply driven market.

And, again, there has not been one confirmed death in captivity due to blue rings. That doesn't mean anyone should run out and buy one, it's just that there is so much misinformation in the hobby, and even more relating to cephs, so its nice to clear things up.

 

[Jambi]

People want it because its challenging, and exotic. More people are killed in the ocean by sharks every year, so if you want to look at it that way, why swim in the ocean? On top of that, why drive a car? Your chances of dieing in a car crash are much higher. Don't leave it in the ocean, leave it to the very experienced hobbyists and research teams. Buy at your own risk, its not like people dont know what they're buying.

 

[nynex]

Jambi.. You comments are disturbing and outright stupid.

From Jambi:Buy at your own risk, its not like people dont know what they're
buying.

This is exactly the Problem!!

First off a Marine Biologist / Research team is completely different from a
hobbyist!!! Marine Biologists spend years and years in school and do alot of
research on what they are doing and know how to handle dangerous animals.
Unfortunately too many hobbiest dont... Yes some do take the time...like alot of
the people on RC.. who want to learn and share ideas..But face it there are too
many people out there in this hobby that have the "Hey that looks cool..lets buy
it!" attitude without researching what they are getting, how to handle it and
take care of it...

Also I love how the "people get killed in car accidents and by sharks" thing always
gets brought up on these types of subjects... Im sorry but those are very poor
analogies on why people should boycott such a dangerous animal for home
aquariums.

Ok, so you are saying that because people get killed in car accidents...we should
keep dangerous animals in our home?...animals that should be left in the Ocean!
Not every marine animal was meant for a home aquarium..

Also your Shark comment is bunch of BS.. I scuba dive and that is clearly not
true...Yes some people have been killed by sharks, buts it not the way you make it
sound.

 

[Thales]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10748258#post10748258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nynex
Also I love how the "people get killed in car accidents and by sharks" thing always
gets brought up on these types of subjects... Im sorry but those are very poor
analogies on why people should boycott such a dangerous animal for home
aquariums.

Those analogies get brought up because one of implicit ideas in these types of subjects is that death is imminent for those who keep these animals - which is just not true. There are good reasons most people should avoid these animals, however, with knowledge and precautions, keeping them can be just as dangerous/safe as diving in a shark cage.

Also your Shark comment is bunch of BS.. I scuba dive and that is clearly not
true...Yes some people have been killed by sharks, buts it not the way you make it
sound.

Isn't that the same way you are making keeping blue rings sound?