Bonnethead sharks for sale

[sharklover]

sharks

sharks

Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, but just got done working. The temperature concern about the leopard shark can be satisfied by the slow acclimating to your tanks' temp. from my own experience I can tell you that sharks captured in the northern part of the range (SF to Oregon) need to be acclimated over the course of a few days whereas leos captured in southern CA only need a couple of hours. But I have seen the sharks happy and healthy at 80 degrees. I think with good flow and enough D.O. they handle the warmer temps just fine. Speaking of healthy and happy, I'd like to conduct an informal survey and ask you guys how you determine that your fish are healthy and happy (as best as happy can be determined with fish). I'm sure at some point in our fishkeeping we've all been asked by others if the fish are happy being in confinement. My thinking on the subject is that if the fish exhibits certain traits, it is healthy and happy. These traits include but may not be limited to the following:
1) The fish swims in a normal manner without being labored,
disoriented or in the case of sharks, tail dragging.
2) The fish has a healthy appetite and gladly accepts food on
a regular basis.
3) The color is what it's supposed to be, without unusual
lighter or darker patches nor bloody areas. Obviously
no external pathogens or physical damage.
4) The fish exhibits normal growth rates in relation to
the amount of feeding and other factors affecting its
metabolism.
5) The respiration rate is normal while normal conditions
prevail.
6) The fish does not hide or seek unusual amounts of refuge
outside its normal behaviour.

I would think that if your fish exhibit these norms in behaviour then you can safely say your fish are healthy and happy.

 

[fnicklaus]

Jay is absolutely correct in his statements. There may be a few hobbiest that can care for sharks as they would be cared for in a public aquarium, but most can not. I believe that public aquariums don't want home aquarists to have sharks because they can not provide the space that they require. In my opinion, 12,000 gallons seems rather small for a bonnet head shark

 

[vinhpooh]

Stop your fringing whining about leaving the fishes in the ocean. People will buy what they want to buy as long as the LFS keep providing them. It is like saying stop buying import automobiles b/c Americans will lose their jobs over outsourcing. You still see imports out on the streets right?

 

[Sanfernando]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7788507#post7788507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper
I am disappointed that this discussion has degraded into a bunch of dumb comments about people keeping elephants and polar bears. Geeze, the guy has a huge tank and is taking care of a shark species very common to public aquaria. In fact, if he could get these guys to breed, more power to him.

I also think we should be very careful about making the conservation argument. The level of shark mortality accrued by hobby isn't even on the radar when compared with commercial fishery harvest or pollution. Moreover, the amount of money spent on each animal is far greater in the aquarium industry than the commercial. The argument is about the quality of life for the animal.

This fellow has obviously provided a huge house for his sharks, and is removing a shark because of aggression. Why chastise him for this? Moreover, you’re applying a human trait to the quality of life issue. Maybe from a sharks perspective there is plenty of food available without have expend much energy hunting.

I did not really understand the arguement that sharks are different from fish? Fish are applied to a large group of animals: teleosts are the bony fish, and elasmobranchs are the cartlaginous fish. I think the arguement was focused on the teleosts. As for the longevity of teleosts, many have reproductive parameters simular to sharks (e.g., species of sebastes (rockfish)): late age at maturity, low fecundity, vulerability to overfishing. I would also argue that many bony fish have just as much "personality" as a shark.

So making comparisons to other large animals with hard to meet care requirements is "a bunch of dumb comments?" If a shark species is common to public aquariums does that mean it is suitable for a hobbiest? Do you want him to breed them so there are more of this species that can be placed in inadequet facilities? While the number of sharks taken for captivity is probably much smaller than that of a commercial use, it is still something and cannot be written off simply because it's not " even on the radar." With this attitude it is no wonder the world's fisheries are collapsing.

 

[bob saget]

how much you want for your shark?

 

[Lrgclasper]

Mhb, Many species of rockfish have doubling times greater than 14 years. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=502

Moreover, tmax max age) for bonnetheads is 12 years, verses 60+ years for many rockfish, and the age at muturity for bonnetheads is 2 years verses 20+ for some rockfish species. Many species of teleosts are vulnerable to overharvest. I am not sure why you don't believe that is the case. Actually, as far as shark species are concerned, bonnetheads are fairly resilient with Fmort/Fmsy values of 0.35- 0.56, which is fairly high when compared with spiny dogfish. On the Atlantic Coast, Spiny dogfish have an overfishing threshold of 0.11 and a target threshold of 0.08. . I don’t have time to look up the total harvest of bonnetheads, but I am sure between the recreational catch and commercial catch, it has to be on the order of 10’s of metric tons, at a minimum.

How many metric tons of bonnetheads go to the aquarium trade?

As for the personal attacks, I figured we could at least have a conversation rather than being a jerk by saying "I would have thought you would have known that given that you are a fisheries policy maker and all." What are you getting at here?

Your other point that states: "O.k. so smaller scale mortalility for the aquarium trade is acceptable because others are killing more?"

My only point is that there are far greater dangers to shark populations than the aquarium trade. I am not saying that the aquarium trade is not a threat to a FEW species, just saying that the aquarium trade is on a totally different scale than commercial fishing. Commercial harvest of sharks is on the scale of 10s-100s of metric tons, and involves using habitat modifying gear such as trawl gear. I remember being at the International Pelagic Shark Workshop in 2002, and a presenter from Japan stated his sample size for an analysis based on the Japanese long-line fleet…. 999 million hooks set annually….. In the fisheries I work with, dogfish are minor species, but still result in harvests of 5,000 to 25,000 metric tons. The US fisheries are regulated, imagine how much comes from unregulated fisheries? They do not have sustainable harvest goals are often sell fishing rights to foreign countries that have the capacity to harvest large amount of fish… It is a free for all.

What shark species are you thinking has been harmed by the aquarium trade?

So Sanfern... are you suggesting that people just keep getting them from the wild rather than get captive bred animals-(people will still buy them even if they are wild)? Captive bred animals generally have much higher survival rates. As for writing off aquarium sharks because they are not on the radar- are you suggesting that management agencies use their VERY limited budget to control the aquarium trade? If this is the case, then less resources will be put towards the reason why populations are in overfished status- habitat loss and commercial fishing.... You could stop the aquarium trade and still have shark stocks disappear. Sanfern, where should management agencies put their priorities?

Having said this, I think I need to get back to the point .... The fellow that is selling his bonnethead provided adequate facilities. Why are you beating him up? What if he sells to another person with a 12,000 gallon aquarium? What is the difference between this and someone who keeps tangs? They travel in large schools and have huge ranges- we cannot re-create this in the aquarium.

I also have a question for you all, should their be a ban on the live food trade? Many shark, shellfish, and fish species are sold for the live food trade. In this case, there is no attempt to keep them for long periods of time.... They are kept alive for the sole purpose of eating them. There is a far greater amount of live food shipped world-wide than shark?

 

[mhltcob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper
Mhb, Many species of rockfish have doubling times greater than 14 years. http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=502

Moreover, tmax max age) for bonnetheads is 12 years, verses 60+ years for many rockfish, and the age at muturity for bonnetheads is 2 years verses 20+ for some rockfish species.

I'll keep that in mind next time I want to keep a rockfish

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper

Many species of teleosts are vulnerable to overharvest. I am not sure why you don't believe that is the case.

I never said there weren't species of teleost vulnerable to overharvest. I don't think anyone could argue that considering many teleost have already been overharvested. However, of the common marine fish utilized for the aquarium trade sharks happen to be some of the least resilient (not to say that there arn't bony fish species in the aquarium trade that have very low resiliance).

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper

My only point is that there are far greater dangers to shark populations than the aquarium trade.

I agree.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper

Having said this, I think I need to get back to the point of my first point.... This fellow that is selling his bonnethead provided adequate facilities. Why are you beating him up? What if he sells to another person with a 12,000 gallon aquarium? What is the difference between this and someone who keeps tangs? They travel in large schools and have huge ranges- we cannot re-create this in the aquarium.

I never bashed the original poster, if you look I am not against responsible shark keeping. There are species appropriate for even relatively small home aquariums. The species mentioned however are not and need resources not easily provided by most home facilities.

 

[mhltcob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper
What is the difference between this and someone who keeps tangs? They travel in large schools and have huge ranges- we cannot re-create this in the aquarium.

We can keep tangs healthy in hobbyist size tanks (this can be attested by the many people who have kept them 10+ years). I don't think that anyone who is in favor of the responsible keeping of sharks in captivity is for keeping tangs irresponsibly. Also, they don't all travel in large schools, nor does this have to be reproduced in captivity for their health.

I think the lesson is if you happen to have a 10,000 + gallon tank in your home, consider buying a bonnethead shark (who doesn't want a hammerhead shark in their home?). If you don't have this size aquarium you probably shouldn't buy one.

 

[Sanfernando]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper

So Sanfern... are you suggesting that people just keep getting them from the wild rather than get captive bred animals-(people will still buy them even if they are wild)? Captive bred animals generally have much higher survival rates.

No, I am stating that this species of shark isn't well suited to captivity and that increasing the number of available specimens might not be a good idea. Should I start a bumblebee grouper breeding program so everyone that wants one can get one? It will be ok since they are captive bred, right? Or maybe I can get that captive bred elephant that I have always wanted for my backyard...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper

As for writing off aquarium sharks because they are not on the radar- are you suggesting that management agencies use their VERY limited budget to control the aquarium trade? If this is the case, then less resources will be put towards the reason why populations are in overfished status- habitat loss and commercial fishing.... You could stop the aquarium trade and still have shark stocks disappear. Sanfern, where should management agencies put their priorities?

No, I am stating that just because the aquarium industry isn't the largest threat to the bonnethead fishery you can't just say that it doesn't matter. If collection as a food fish kills more bonnetheads than pollution should we only count collection as a food fish as a threat to the species? Aquarists need to show restraint on what species to keep. Buying something just because it is available isn't a good excuse for keeping animals in poor conditions.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7795368#post7795368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lrgclasper

Having said this, I think I need to get back to the point .... The fellow that is selling his bonnethead provided adequate facilities. Why are you beating him up? What if he sells to another person with a 12,000 gallon aquarium? What is the difference between this and someone who keeps tangs? They travel in large schools and have huge ranges- we cannot re-create this in the aquarium.

What are the odds of the person buying his sharks having a 12,000+ gallon aquarium? Not all tangs occur in groups but all bonnetheads occur in small groups according to fishbase.org.

 

[onereefnotenuf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7790541#post7790541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fnicklaus
Jay is absolutely correct in his statements. There may be a few hobbiest that can care for sharks as they would be cared for in a public aquarium, but most can not. I believe that public aquariums don't want home aquarists to have sharks because they can not provide the space that they require. In my opinion, 12,000 gallons seems rather small for a bonnet head shark

what do you base this opinion on? 12,000 gal is a tank roughly 30'x 12'x 3' or 24'x12'x4' or 20'x8'x6'. how big does it need to be adequate?

 

[stykthyn]

wow that sounds an awful lot like a swimming pool, which is what we usually recommend as an adequate enclosure for an obligate ram breather. come on guys, the fish are breeding and are happy give it a rest