Breeding Clams at home

your phosphates at 1 are much too high. any reading at all is too high. mag at 1500 will affect your other chemistry. why not try for mag at nsw levels 1350???
 
I mentioned between 1300 and 1500. my PO4 is high right now because i changed out my algae scrubber screen. within a week it should drop to near 0 as some phosphates are needed in my system for the algae screen to grow. I'm assuming my PO4 is usually at 0 because 6mo ago the local LFS did a PO4 test (stupid strips) and it read 0 and thats when i had my scrubber fully going. But i'm starting over with my algae scrubber (changed screen type). My PO4 "could" be a .5, it wasnt exactly as dark as the 1.0 reeding but darker than the .5 so i just rounded up.

I'll see what the LFS has for Mag treatments within a couple days. Got too much going on to go there atm. Any suggestions on brands, etc? I read about using epsom salt and Mag flakes. But i think that was for more drastic uses.
 
Last edited:
just personally, i'd leave the mag alone, but it seems you like to put chemicals in the water. doing the regular water changes, using a decent salt should eliminate the need for any dosing really. your testing ability [and most hobbyists] just aren't that exact to be constantly trying to keep things "perfect." BUT if you really still wanna use something for upping mag, i can't give you any advice at all. chemistry isn't my strong point.
 
BluScrnOdeth said:
The one thing that bothers me the most is how to get zooxanthellae without killing or severely hurting another clam, so that has yet to be determined on what to do.... Wondering if i might be able to just "scrape" some off provided i can keep the clams shell open without permanently damaging it.

Then IF they start pouring out stuff, i'll shift them to a water container filled with PREMADE, 83 degree water (to help avoid temp shock), NOT tank water. Once the eggs start coming out I will shift it to another bucket. I will do the same for Clam 2.

Since Clams can lay 75% more sperm than eggs, i will dilute it to a 5:1 mixture. Yes i said 5:1. I would rather under fertilize than over fertilize. Then mix (depending on how many are there) then in a 10-20gal tank. Though i do have a spare 55gal i'm not doing anything with....

Then follow the Clam Guide for the rest of the process. Once they are 14-15 days old, i will be putting them in my refuge tank after a 3hr acclimation period. and wait for them to get acclimated to that. Then maybe after a month, if they are over an inch or two, i'll put them in my DT with the LEDs so they can take advantage of the light. My refuge isnt highly lit up (indirect 4 23w(100w eq) 2700k CFL's for my algae scrubber. And then go on from there. Maybe do this twice a year.
Click to expand...

Good luck - this is certainly a lofty project. Having worked on coral and anemone reproduction for the past 5 years, I have a few comments regarding your fertilization and rearing techniques.

You said something about a 5:1 ratio. Ratio of what, exactly? 5 sperms to 1 egg? How are you going to measure that out?

I realize the risks involved with too much sperm concentration (polyspermy), but too dilute and you will not have nearly enough sperm concentration for proper fertilization. Your bucket method might work, but might I suggest that you vary your techniques... It is much easier to dilute sperm concentration than increase it - just add water. Eggs will float, so they can easily be pipetted out or skimmed off the surface. Don't panic, as self fertilization is usually inhibited.


The tricky part will be getting the sperm isolated and concentrated, but the most minimal amount of water you can put the clam in will be key - large petri-style glass dishes work great (we use these for male Fungia corals). You can also try using a baster or pipettes to collect sperm directly from the clam. Then, transfer the sperm to 50mL vials, keeping the most minimal amount possible but leave some of the sperm in your glass dishes. Looking about like a nice glass of lemonade is the best I can describe sperm concentration.

As I said before, collecting eggs is easy - pipette or skim off the surface and transfer to your other clam's spawn. Fertilization will probably take place within an hour, but you can leave the eggs for two, maybe. Now, before you place in a holding tank, you need to rinse the sperm from your eggs. Basically, flush with fresh sea water three or four, maybe five times. When that sperm starts dying off, it can foul the water fast.

Next... let's assume you have fertilized eggs. You have glossed over perhaps the most difficult part of working with broadcast spawning animals - caring for the larvae. You mentioned putting them in a 10-20 gallon tank but list no other details. The next week or so while they develop will arguably be the most difficult and critical time. Fertilization is easy and fun, it's the care involved later that sucks (and I'm not just talking about clams here either!!! sorry, I had too.... :rollface:).

You can't just plop them in a tank and expect them to survive. And, no filtration that will suck them through an intake - no HOB filters, no powerheads, no canister filters... nuthin. You need GENTLE aeration, and nothing that will destroy their membranes during the first 12-18 hours of cell division. Not every egg will be fertilized, and after about a day, they will disintegrate to a gross, fatty mess. Water changes, water changes, water changes. Oh yeah... and don't siphon out any of your developing larvae.

Really a kreisel-style tank is best here, something that can keep your larvae gently rotating. When the developing larvae get stuck together, they can and will fuse, resulting in their death.

Now, let's say you get them to the ciliated larval phase - what are they going to settle on? Anemones can and will settle on the glass, and then you can just gently scrape them and move them with your fingernail, razor blade, whatever. Stony corals need actual substrate to settle on, or you will never get them to survive - I assume clams would be similar. And, there are probably settlement cues for clams, but I don't know what that is - you'll need to do some research here.

Now, they need zoox. You might get lucky with enough free-floating zoox in your tank, but if they don't take it up from the water column, then you will need to put them in the most minimal amount of water you can and inoculate them with zoox from the parents. For corals, we sacrifice a branch from an adult colony. With anemones, I cut tentacles off. Then, for either one, I grind them up and centrifuge off the dead tissue, leaving a pellet of zoox at the bottom of a vial (repeating process 5 or 6 times).

But... for the clams, if you don't want to sacrifice the adult, and they are not taking it up from the water column, you *might* be able to take a slice with scissors from the mantle of an adult and grind that up - BUT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT WILL DO TO THE ADULT - never done it. Then, you would probably need to mash that up and put it in your inoculation tank with the juveniles.

Hmmm... how are you going to see if the juveniles are taking up zoox? Do you have a low-power dissecting scope? Zoox is easily seen in larvael corals and anemones - I can't believe clams would be that much different.

As I said, it's a lofty project, but good luck. Warning though... I swear every spawning season takes years off my life with the tremendous amount of work that goes into rearing broadcast spawners. Too bad clams aren't brooders...

Cheers
Mike
 
Ousnakebyte.

Ill keep everything in mind. I didn't list all the details because I can't be for certain what exactly I will do but I have a general idea. I have some others for plan b. But ill mention everything that I do and provide pics when I can. I'm hoping for success but expecting the worst (no breeding). For the water change process I have some 27micron and 1 micron screening which ill use to filter the water so I don't throw the babies down the drain.
 
Molekin.

I think I will do more water changes now that I have the clams. Salt is pretty cheap, chemicals can be cheaper. I usually do a water change once every 4 months since I had the chemicals to keep things balanced.
 
I know what you mean. I had my daughters 4th Bday yesterday. Was up late making sure things were all cleaned up and ready for the party, then daylight savings this morning, i have had about 6 hrs sleep the past 2 days.
 
Back to the sperm to egg ratio of 5:1. How do you plan to measuer that out? It's not as simple as 5 parts sperm water to 1 part egg water.

The various corals I have worked with "prefer" different sperm concentrations, but they are typically 10^5 per mL to 10^7 per mL, depending on species. I would assume that clams fall somewhere in line with that perhaps. But, we measure this out with a microscope and a specific slide designed for counting (it's not easy).

IMO, if you get them to spawn, then this (sperm concentration) will be one of your biggest hurdles. Personally, I would shoot for more concentrated than less. Yes, you do risk polyspermy, but fertilization rates of 20%, 10% or less can easily be seen - in short, sperm concentration matters. Without that, the disintegrating eggs make a worse fouling mess than the dying sperm. It's really, really gross and fouls water quality so quickly when all those lipids disperse in the water.

And, 1 micron filter bag?!?! Wow, that's overkill. Sure, it will work, but you don't need anything that fine. 100 micron would probably work. But, zoox, if I remember correctly, is around 10 microns. So, if you filter through 1 micron, you will likely filter out the zoox that you need for your clams.

You can make a very easy water change device - take a 3" diameter piece of pvc and cut it so it is 3-4" taller than your larval rearing tank. Hot glue or super glue on your micron mesh to one end. Then, you can use 1/2" tubing to siphon water through your pvc strainer - just don't stick the hose next to the micron mesh, or you will suck your larvae through the mesh. I actually glued on little 1/2" pvc rings on the bottom as a stand so I didn't have to hold the pvc strainer off the bottom of the tank.

Mike
 
Last edited:
as far as the sperm:egg ratio. As far as from what i have read, they can have as many as a billion sperm and as many as 250k eggs, thats a 4000:1 ratio. Maybe it was 250mil eggs, that doesnt sound right. Anyways. making it a 5:1 water ratio (5gal watered down sperm, 1gal watered down eggs as an example) would still make that a sperms to egg ratio of 800:1 which is still a bit high for my liking. So i prob will dillute it even more, i'd like to obtain a probably a ratio more around 10:1. Even then i think thats too much, but at least its a start.

The 1 micron filter was for filtering my display tank water into the breeding tank so that nothing but saltwater could pass through. i want to connect this to my DT because of a few reasons:

1. The fouling you talk about. As long as i can get enough water turnover, the fouling wont be an issue as it will be spread over 300 gallons and my algae scrubber will soak up the byproducts of decaying matter. I was going to use a 27 micron filter to gravity feed water to the scrubber from the breedng tank to ensure that no eggs get sucked down the pipe.

2. Temperature is better regulated in my DT so it will be more consistent with the volume in the DT compared to a smaller tank.


I think that i might get a bigger micron filter so that at least the zoo can pass through it in hopes that i dont have to blend any clams up or cut them to get a chunk. I was going to use the 1micron screen for water changes to stop the larval from being poured out originally.

Oh i remember you asked how you are to tell if they have aquired zoo. You are supposed to be able to look inside their opening and see a gland. Its supposed to turn a brownish/gold color which means that they have obtained the zoo.

For my first couple attempts, i dont want to get a microscope. Thats not typical around the house, DIY, home hobbyist equipment. I wanted this to be as simple as possible, but if my first two attempts are a fail and its because of the sperm to egg ratio, then i will be getting one. Trying to keep this as simple as possible for everyone at home to reproduce.

I'm thinking that should work.
 
I underestimated how fast this stuff grows. I have about 8 liters of plankton that i have no use for. I'm willing to trade or give away. I dont want to waste it and throw it down the drain.

I have some 16oz bottles i can ship them in.

The two strains of phyto i have are:

Nanno Oculata and Tetraselmis.

Here is the batch that i split on 3-7-11

<img src="http://www.aquatic-refuge.com/RandomPics/phytoweek2.jpg" width="600">

Tips are welcome :) just PM me.
 
Last edited:
Ok I have a little bit to add hopefully I don't get flamed... I hope you can succeed but ther are many inherent problems with this in a closed system I researched t years back and got tons of advice from a friend that used to work with a clam farm in the pacific one problem you are gonna have is keeping them fed till they are large enough to sell this tales awhile sometimes ears to get big enough, second is you will need a closed system with absolutely no life besides the clams in it the invertebrates in our systems will kill small clams (think his point has been brought up,) last problem I see is that you will need a good digital microscope to do this right not only will you need this to properly mix eggs and sperm but you will need it to closely watch be growth of the clams and to be able to space them as needed as they grow. I hope you can succeed but I never tried for the point of time and money it will take to raise them to market size plus i didnt want to look at an empty sand bed till they were big enough to see with the naked eye. Lastly and I will probally get crap for this but I do believe this is possible and so do some experts but it will take perfection to do. I posted this in the other thread also. Ps I did see your "food" farm good luck on your project
 
alright rottbo flamer... lol jk

i understand the complexities of this as you are bringing out. I didnt want to have to use a microscope because to me there is a difference between hobbyists and fish farms. They are in it for the money and i'm in it for the hobby. Sure, would i sell them, of course, what would i do with 10 clams if thats what i ended up with. Certainly too much for me. As far as feeding, since i cant be home 24/7, i was going to rig up a drip system, test it out for a couple days and see how well it performs without OVERFLOODING the breeding tank and smothering every clam in there. Plus i wanted to test out how fast the tube would clog on a drip system. This way they have a constant food source even while im not around. They wouldnt be put in my DT until they are about a month or two old. I'll have to see how well they develop, if i get to that stage. I was looking at some micron filter bags this way i could just drip the water into the breeding tank from my DT to help eliminate the need for extra equipment to keep them warm and what not. I may need to get some king of low power heater. If i have to get a heater, i would put the breeding tank into a larger tank full of water this way the clams couldnt come in contact with the heater at all. and the return line to my refuge will have a micron bag over it so that the little clams dont get sucked down. I'll provide more details as i get closer to getting the big clams. Just waiting on some more plankton packs to show up and get the ISO G brewing before i take the next step. Once i get that going i'll buy the additional tanks and whatever i think i may need to start the process.
 
You can get a good used scope for decent prices I think that if you are serious about this experiment then you need a scope so you can detail everything you are doing so that on a second attempt you can go back see your errors and the things that work you have to look at this scientifically plus if this did ever succeed people will want data and the more the better one question have you researched how long it takes clams to grow and how long they actually stay suspended in water before they attach I was surprised at some of these numbers for different clams that was another reason I thought it was to much for a hobbyist to try figuring out how to keep a tank clean with out water movement that would kills the larvae
 
The odds are stacked against you but I hope you succeed.

I remember reading a very in depth paper on culturing tridacnidae, It was quite lengthy(took several hours to get through) but went into extreme detail about sperm to egg ratio,methods of getting the larvae to settle out, aswell as methods of inducing spawnig. They mentioned sacrificing 1-2 mature specimens, but this sacrifice would if I remeber correctly produce enough "hormone" to induce spawning in several hundred mature specimens. this can be done artificially with 5-hydroxytryptamine aka: serotonin

I also recall "nutrition" they mentioned ammonia, N and P rather than "filter feeding" The system mentioned in this paper were open using NSW for raisng the clams but the spawning and larvae tanks were closed systems. And I vaguely remember the mention of "fertilization" tanks for the egg and sperm which were conical tanks with just aeration for a set length of time before transfering to a closed system to "settle" I will look around a little and see if I can find it for you, there was tons if good info for you.


Im sure you've read this but I thought I'd give you the "link" anyways because you may find some useful info(copy/past + delete space)
reef builders.com/2008/04/30/reef-ramblings-clamming-around-part-ii-spawning-tridacnids/
 
rottbo, i was thinking about getting one because i would like to see if i can tell the difference between over fertilized and non fertilized eggs. I'll keep it in mind when it comes time. I might try it at first without and under fertilize because i only want a few, not a whole mass of them to keep things simple for observation. I'm really hoping that by having them cycled with DT water that i might have enough free floating zoox. Thats my main concern right now. I dont want to have to kill or harm another to get the babies to live if i dont have to.
 
When working with broadcasting animals, it really is a numbers game. There is SO MUCH die off in the first week (unfertilized eggs crumble within 24 hours, those that are not fit die off, etc.). You really cannot target 10-15 clams.

Let's say you get 100,000 eggs. If you have a very poor fert rate of 10%, that's 10,000 fertilized eggs and 90,000 unfertilized. You will be AMAZED at how cloudy the water gets. Your very small (yes, 300 gallons is small for this project) system will not be able to filter out that much decay - algal scrubbers, filter bags, whatever. I understand wanting to keep the water chemistry constant, but think of your other inhabitants.

You need access to A LOT of new salt water and expect to perform A LOT of water changes.

As mentioned a low power dissecting scope will be key here, and they don't cost that much - you can get one for probably less than $200. This will help you determine fert success - this is how you would estimate fert rate - and keep tabs on the developing larvae. Otherwise, you are just shooting in the dark and guessing at what's happening with your larvae, numbers you are working with, etc.

The point of all this is if you succeed, what can you tell us that worked? How do you know? If it fails, what can you tell us that didn't work? How would you know?

Cheers
Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Calling all clam owners!
Replies
5
Views
278
Scotty333!!!
S
S
Clam in an unfavourable position - help moving it
Replies
19
Views
527
Scotty333!!!
S
J
  • Sticky
James Fatherree's Giant Clam ID videos.
Replies
1
Views
504
Reefing102
Reefing102
F
New Reef - Need recommendations
Replies
11
Views
180
wvned
wvned
T Diddy
Favorite clam??
Replies
10
Views
575
T Diddy
T Diddy
Back
Top