Breeding Log: Pterapogon Kaudnerni

[gbsteve]

You definately want to give your male time to recoup or you will lose him. I let mine have two batches back to back and then seperate the male and fatten him up for a month.

If you want to keep and raise more of the babies you need to catch the male after the eggs have hatched and are seen swimming around. Once you get him in the net or box, he will spit out the free swimming little ones. I have had batches of 33,31, and 28 for my last three. All these were raised on brine, frozen prawn eggs, cyclops, and finally mysis.

My male's throat stays closed off for a couple days after releasing thus keeping the babies safe, but also keeping him from not eating.

 

[papagimp]

I've been trying to catch him since his first clutch was being held. I did my aquascaping just a little too good and havn't wanted to tear it all down. But that's what it's going to take, so once his tank is all ready, I'll be taking all the LR out and I'm sure to catch him then, lol. I only caught 12 the first batch and 4 the second, but I have alot in my tank that have been eating the released newborns. Hopefully when he releases this batch into a separate tank I'll get higher yields.

 

[saltwater4life1]

Dang looks very nice i cant wait to breed!
I got lots of info from your topic
Thanks!
sorry about the loss of babys...

 

[papagimp]

There is always some expected losses, weather it be from the fish being the runt of the litter to human error (as was most loses in my case). But with a little time I'll improve, It's a learning process and I learn something new about these particular fish almost on a daily basis.

 

[papagimp]

Update: 12/13/2006

Update: 12/13/2006

Well first off, I lost one baby. And when I say lost, I mean he dissapeared. One of the newest little babies, and I believe it was the runt as well. So 8 babies now.

Second, all babies are munchin' on freeze dried whole cyclopeeze, the newest smallest of the bunch are eating right from the surface while the older guys who were started on brine shrimp still wait for the stuff to float through the water column. I think in time they'll catch on to what the little guys are doing though. As well as helping teach any new babies to eat in the same fashion.

And finally, I believe the Male either swallowed or spit out his clutch, as of last night he no longer appeared to be holding. He still hasn't eaten anything that I can see, but his jowls are smaller like the females again. This weekend they are getting put into their new 20G, with a tank divider to give the poor guy a break. I'm also picking up an urchin Friday or Saturday as well. This should help increase survival rates for me quite a bit.

Can anyone give recommendations as far as the care for sea urchins go? I've read some on them, seems they like algae and zooplankton they can pull from rocks. No algae in the tank yet, can I feed em spirulina based flakes or pellets? Or what about algae wafers like my pleco used to eat?

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Re: Update: 12/13/2006

Re: Update: 12/13/2006

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8749222#post8749222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by papagimp
Well first off, I lost one baby. And when I say lost, I mean he dissapeared. One of the newest little babies, and I believe it was the runt as well. So 8 babies now.

Hopefully it will show itself.

Second, all babies are munchin' on freeze dried whole cyclopeeze, the newest smallest of the bunch are eating right from the surface while the older guys who were started on brine shrimp still wait for the stuff to float through the water column. I think in time they'll catch on to what the little guys are doing though. As well as helping teach any new babies to eat in the same fashion.

Wow! This is a huge step for both you and the babies. Are you going to experiment with various types of prepared foods now that you've expanded their food base? What is the HUFA and Crude Protein content of the Cyclopeeze (I threw my empty can away)?

And finally, I believe the Male either swallowed or spit out his clutch, as of last night he no longer appeared to be holding. He still hasn't eaten anything that I can see, but his jowls are smaller like the females again. This weekend they are getting put into their new 20G, with a tank divider to give the poor guy a break. I'm also picking up an urchin Friday or Saturday as well. This should help increase survival rates for me quite a bit.

I hate to say it, but I'm glad to hear that the male made the right choice.

Can anyone give recommendations as far as the care for sea urchins go? I've read some on them, seems they like algae and zooplankton they can pull from rocks. No algae in the tank yet, can I feed em spirulina based flakes or pellets? Or what about algae wafers like my pleco used to eat?

I assume that you are going to get a Long Spined Urchin (Diadema setosum)? They mainly munch down algae, especially calcerous algae. They need a fair amount of calcium in order to properly make their spines. It will munch on your Coralline algae and might even take care of that Caulerpa If you need to supplement his diet with a prepared algae, use Nori. It might or might not take to the Spirulina based foods, and algae wafers are normally meant for freshwater fish nutrition. They do have saltwater algae wafers available though.

 

[papagimp]

I really don't think that baby will show itself travis, it's only a 2.5 gallon with a couple chunks of rock, not too many places for him to hide. And the bristleworms (large ones) and grammarus shrimp take care of any dead or dying matter in there quickly.

I forget the nutrional value of the cylcopeeze but I do know they are far far better than brine shrimp. very high EPA's and DHA's. You can read through argents nutrional value tables here: http://www.argent-labs.com/argentwebsite/cyclopeeze.htm
I'll probably keep em on the cyclopeeze for awhile and once big enough try to get em eating the Therma A antiparasite pellets.

The urchin isn't going into my display so no corraline or algae or anything in the 20g, just rock and sand, not much rock either. I need more but will probably just make my own seeing how I have a 100lbs bag of cement and 250lbs of pulverized limestone.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Have you thought about soaking the Cyclopeeze in something like Selco or Super Selco for added nutrition?

Wow! 11.74% EPA and 11.09% DHA! That's pretty good. Very well balanced.

 

[papagimp]

I've thought about it, but was unsure what I would use for a pre-soak mixture. I hear good things about the selcon products and figured that would most likely be the choice. But as you can see, the cyclops are pretty good as is. I may start soaking them in garlic (minced) just to make it easier to switch em to the pellets later on.

 

[papagimp]

Update: 12/14/206

Update: 12/14/206

20g tank has finally cycled and started getting some diatoms and/or dino's all over the sand. I'm waiting patiently for the hair algae to kick in now, lol. Last night me and Jessica found a nice looking Diadema long spined black urchin. I never had a desire for one of these things, but after reading about the Bangaii's relationship with them in the wild, I figured a better artificial enviroment for them would include one so, we picked it up, got it home, and in the tank. This urchin totally kicks butt! He's so darn cool looking. Even has the little orange "eye" that reefshop was telling me about. (found out that evening that it's not an eye at all, it's actually a body part found on the opposite side of the body, lol) I'll try to get a picture up soon, but it'll most likely be this weekend, when I hope to get the Bangaii's in there as well. As of this morning the only life in the 20g is the urchin, 3 blue legged hermits, bristlworms, and plenty of stometella's and pods.

fwiw, my little "angle of death" urchin that I made didn't even come close to this guy! I'm glad I found him before making another attempt at a DIY urchin.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Adam, just a word of caution in case you get poked by your urchin, which you most likely will. This is taken from my notes for my presentation on dangerous marine life in our aquariums.

Sea Urchins
There are 6000 species of sea urchins. Of these, 80 species are thought to be venomous to humans.[3] There are 2 mechanisms of injury from the sea urchin. The first includes the mechanical effects of embedded broken spines and injected venom along with an inflammatory reaction.[3,4] The second mechanism is due to pedicellariae. These organs are found on the surface of the urchin and spines and act as jaws to clamp onto prey.[4,8] Even when separated from the spine, they continue to function. After the injury occurs, there is immediate onset of pain that is out of proportion to the trauma.[4] The duration of the pain is several hours.

Symptoms:
Pain;
Edema and swelling;
Partial paralysis of a limb;
Facial swelling;
Muscle spasm;
Dyspnea;
Weakness;
Cardiac arrhythmias; and
Collapse.[3,4]
The symptoms of pedicellariae are usually more severe than the spines, including aphonia, respiratory distress, and possibly death.[3]

Treatment:
Soak the wound in hot water (43.3°C to 45.0°C).
Protruding spines should be removed carefully without bending because they are easily broken. The use of a local anesthetic may be required.
Purple or black dye from the surface of a spine may tattoo the skin and lead to a false assumption that a spine is imbedded in the skin. The dye will be absorbed in 48-72 hours. If the mark remains visible after 72 hours, then a spine fragment is likely imbedded.
Analgesics.
If the species possesses pedicellariae (pincer system), apply shaving cream and carefully shave the area.
Secondary infection may occur requiring antibiotics and the possible need for debridement or drainage.
Surgical treatment will be required if the spine is imbedded in a joint space, nerve, or tendon.[2-4,8]

 

[papagimp]

Great information Travis, I did read up a bit on them last night. From what I've read, this particular Diadema species doesn't fall under one of those "overly venomous" species. It does have a bit of irratation to a purplish wound but usually fades within a few days. The only downside to being stuck by one of these is that the Spines are indeed barrbed and segmented, and razor sharp, so it's easy to be punctured by one, and any attempts to remove the spine will result in the spine breaking apart in the wound. From my research, the best thing to do is deal with it and the spine will eventually dissolve under the skin and wound will heal with no lasting affects. The Diadema Setosum has a close cousing, I forget the name, it starts with an "E" but it's a very venomous urchin that will require a hospital visit if stung. I came so close to buying that one, luckily I saw the setosum in time and got him.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Agreed Adam. D. setosum is one of the mildest urchins out there. But could you imagine the pain of getting stuck in some place like the wrist between the ulna and the radius? Or a tendon on the back of the hand? MAN!

FWIW, the pain from the pedicellariae is supposed to be absolutely excruciating. That's why Fire Urchins are named thus. You feel the bite of the microscopic jaws. Here is an enlarged picture of the pedicellariae. Just imagine thousands of them clamping on to your skin (and possibly under it in the case of a puncture) all of which could be injecting a venom

 

[papagimp]

Are you trying to make me paranoid about putting my hand in the tank? You're so mean Travis!

I wonder if I can talk Jess into petting the urchin? I managed to talk her into petting an anemone already, and a frogspawn. The frogspawn got her good too! and yes, I felt bad afterwards.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

I'll pet your urchin. FWIW, I'm just letting you know what to do IF you get poked. But just remedy the problem by having Jess be your eyes while you work in the tank. It's the same precaution you would need to take if you had a lionfish or other related fish in your tank.

 

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8757402#post8757402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
But just remedy the problem by having Jess be your eyes while you work in the tank.

Actually, I make her put her hands in the tank while I direct where to put everything and whatnot. I'm her eyes. My hands get so cut up at work and greasy that I worry bout getting oil or tranny fluid in my tank. And if anybody has ever worked as a mechanic before, you know that all the scrubbin' in the world and you'll still find a greasy spot somewhere. My tank wouldn't look half as good without her help, she's a doll!

 

[kpk]

Yep it doesn't feel very goo at all. We went snorkeling in St. Thomas and got many urching spines stuck in out feet, hands etc. It sucks digging them out too!!

If your careful you will be fine.

 

[kpk]

When you setting up the 150 Adam?

 

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8757464#post8757464 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kpk
When you setting up the 150 Adam?

Gotta save up enough for a chiller, asm skimmer, plumbing equipment, more rock, and a stand and canopy.

so it'll be a minute or two. (had alot saved up but christmas completely drained the 150g fund )

 

[kpk]

Are you gonna run halides? If your running t5 you probably won't need a chiller?