Bubble King Skimmer Club

[ksed]

The difference is that the double cones and DeLuxe are slightly more forgiving, when water chemistry changes.

 

[vpaul79]

Its a little less than that, like I said the silicon tube coming out of the wedge is barely touching the water where the tube and wedge intersect. The recommended water level range is 150mm to 200mm or 5.9" to 7.9", so you got room to raise it up another half inch easily. I had to close the wedge almost 90% to raise the air/water mixture, but its working well. I'm skimming less, but its also a much dryer skimmate. Your tank's salinity and parameters are different so I don't think matching height is the answer, but I'd try raising it a little bit at a time until you see the skimming action improve.

I spoke too soon, a week later the giant bubbles returned, even with raising it up. I have to clean the skimmer to get to run like the image kris101 posted. Seems like I can run it well for about 3-4 weeks getting a dryer skim before it goes crazy and either overflows or skims very wet.

 

[ekovalsky]

So, I'm considering the various 10" internal BK models, among other skimmers, for my system upgrade.

The Double Cone 250 rating was considerably lower than the Super Marine 250 or Deluxe 250 (internal models), but I think this goes back to when it came with a smaller pump. Now that it is available with the RD3 Speedy 50w, is there really much of a difference ? Water processed - which at full power is listed at 4,000 lph with this pump - is the same. I realize there is a difference in contact area with the Double Cone 250 at the smaller end of the spectrum with its wine bottom configuration, but this shouldn't dramatically alter the efficiency. And there is a rather dramatic difference in price between in and the others i.e. $700-800.

My new tank will have just under 400g in the display itself, and another 100-150g between overflow, sump, and refugium (for pods). I think a 10" skimmer processing about 1,100 gph / 4000 kph should be about the right size, anticipating a moderate bio load once mature; this will be stocked similarly to my current 235g setup - pic below - but spread out over a tank twice as deep and slightly taller... Skimmer was a Deltec AP902, which broke and was replaced with a second hand AP1003. I'm wanting something more quiet and efficient that will fit under the stand.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

So, I'm considering the various 10" internal BK models, among other skimmers, for my system upgrade.



The Double Cone 250 rating was considerably lower than the Super Marine 250 or Deluxe 250 (internal models), but I think this goes back to when it came with a smaller pump. Now that it is available with the RD3 Speedy 50w, is there really much of a difference ? Water processed - which at full power is listed at 4,000 lph with this pump - is the same. I realize there is a difference in contact area with the Double Cone 250 at the smaller end of the spectrum with its wine bottom configuration, but this shouldn't dramatically alter the efficiency. And there is a rather dramatic difference in price between in and the others i.e. $700-800.



My new tank will have just under 400g in the display itself, and another 100-150g between overflow, sump, and refugium (for pods). I think a 10" skimmer processing about 1,100 gph / 4000 kph should be about the right size, anticipating a moderate bio load once mature; this will be stocked similarly to my current 235g setup - pic below - but spread out over a tank twice as deep and slightly taller... Skimmer was a Deltec AP902, which broke and was replaced with a second hand AP1003. I'm wanting something more quiet and efficient that will fit under the stand.

IMO, No way a couble cone 250 would work with a 400g tank stocked like that one above. I have that skimmer on my medium load 250g, and I think it's sized correctly. I was even considering looking into a larger ATB model. Just scared with the DC pump issues I've read in this thread. I honestly would stick with an Askoll based skimmer over the DC pumps. I can't even run my DC250 at 50w, it won't skim correctly. It took me forever to tune the skimmer, because I had the DC pump at 50w. Once I turned it down to like 43w, it started skimming correctly. Idk, but IMO U shouldn't have to adjust ur skimmer pump. It should come sized correctly to ur skimmer size. Plug it in, tune it, and then clean it...that's it. took me a month to find the sweet spot on my skimmer.

 

[jthao]

I completely agree with schnitzel. My sm200 with the right red dragon 1500 performs perfect. And I don't ever really see having to adjust the speed of my skimmer pump. It's either off or on. I don't do much adjustment of my skimmer at all, it's plug and play. Also, keep in mind, these pumps if it ever should go out, I can grab a Laguna block real fast from my lfs and my skimmer is going again while I wait for the red dragon block. I've never had to replace a block (knock on wood) for either my sm200 or my red dragon return. But I'm sure a Laguna would suffice if I ever should need it.
The dc pumps look nice, but I don't think I'd ever "upgrade" my pump to that one cuss I think mines works perfect as is. And one day if ever either my block goes out, I'd rather just grab another askoll/Laguna/red dragon block and throw my volute and impeller on it.
Besides, it's not like my askoll based red dragons suck a lot of juice and the dc one saves me lots of money, they're about the same. Both my red dragon pumps are under or around 50w.

 

[jthao]

Eko: I don't think a 250 anything will be good for a 400g+ sump tank. Id get at least a supermarine 300 or deluxe 300.
Fwiw: I use a sm200 on my 200g dt. And I think it's perfect. Id push it with a 300g tank, but thats about it, even then, I'd be inclined to go with at least a sm250.
If I had the money, I'd get a 400 for my 560g fowlr

 

[acesq]

I'm using an SD 250 on my 400 total volume system and I thinks it's handling it quite well. I have no measurable nitrates and very low phosphates. I can't yet say whether it will handle the system when it is fully stocked, but it seems to have plenty of headroom left. That said, if money is no object, you can't go wrong with an SM300.

 

[acesq]

My post above should read "SM250" not SD 250.

 

[BrettH]

Supermarin 200 Pump Failure (red dragon 1500)

Supermarin 200 Pump Failure (red dragon 1500)

Let me start by saying I love my SM 200. It has run flawlessly for 2 years, fantastic skimmer. However after cleaning the pump today and reassembling, the pump is not working properly. Everything is in great shape. I am fairly confident I reassembled it correctly since I have done it before with no issues (and I have triple checked the reassembly and cross referenced every possible problem with Red Dragon manual - bearing seated correctly, gaskets in place, screws not over tighten, impeller rotates freely, Riser tube/Air intake is not clogged, no calcium build up, etc.

I have no clue why all of a sudden I am having this problem. Any thoughts from other SM 200/Red Dragon 1500 pump users?

I called premium aquatics (where I bought it) to see if they can help me (Jeremy is gone!) and they basically can't help. Michelle at PA tried, but she passed me onto Royal-Exclusiv in Florida. I was then told by Matias they need to send an email to Germany to get me help!!!??? So why are they here??

Very dis-appointed with both PA and Royal Exclusiv's initial response. We will see what the future brings. I will remain optimistic for now.

brett

 

[sreefs]

What is the pump doing?
Did it have calcium built up before cleaning?

 

[BrettH]

Hi Pat...It had very little calcium build up. The pump still runs, but the flow is really low. It is barely enough to suck any air through the venturi. It is really odd how it runs, but at it's normal speed? If I remove the air intake, the flow increases significantly, as it should. Venturi hole and air line that feeds is clear, nothing blocking it.

Can anyone suggest some alternative pumps until I get this resolved? Maybe a link? Thanks.

Brett

 

[slief]

Hi Pat...It had very little calcium build up. The pump still runs, but the flow is really low. It is barely enough to suck any air through the venturi. It is really odd how it runs, but at it's normal speed? If I remove the air intake, the flow increases significantly, as it should. Venturi hole and air line that feeds is clear, nothing blocking it.

Can anyone suggest some alternative pumps until I get this resolved? Maybe a link? Thanks.

Brett

Sounds to me like you may have changed the adjustment of the volute. On the pumps inlet, you have a red threaded fitting that adjusts the air to water ratio. If it's adjusted all the way in, there is less water going thru the pump and in turn, less air. If it's adjusted too far out, you have less air and more water.. I'd double check that and start there. You should have it set to around 1 to 1.5 turns out as a starting point.

If you verify that and that's not the issue, then I'd pull the pump apart and make sure the magnet isn't spinning on the impeller shaft. The magnet should not spin on the shaft at all. The magnet is bonded to the shaft and any slippage will inhibit the pump from producing proper flow.

If it doesn't spin on the shaft, the next thing I would do is verify that the impeller spins freely in the pump body. I know you said it spins free but did you verify this with the volute on as well? If not, with the pump assembled, use a thin screw driver to reach in through the pumps intake (you may need to remove the adjustable intake and verify that the impeller still rotates freely with the pump assembled. If it doesn't then the impeller isn't seated all the way into the bushing or the bushing is all the way seated into the motor block thus causing the impeller to sit to far up in the motor body which then causes it to bind with volute.

One other thing to double check is the silencer. There is a foam filter in the silencer. You can open the silencer up and check to see if the filter is really dirty or if there is water in there. Either could inhibit air flow. The foam filter can be washed.

Once you have gone through the steps I suggested, please report back.

 

[sreefs]

The foam inside the silencer get all crusty over time, remove the top to get at it use a single blade razor and score around the top cap, then use a screw driver to remove the cap. You can run it without the silencer sponge if you want. If you take the silencer off and run the skimmer to see if it goes back to normal, this will tell you if the silencer sponge is clogged. A lot of great ideas from Scott.
Pat

 

[BrettH]

Sounds to me like you may have changed the adjustment of the volute. On the pumps inlet, you have a red threaded fitting that adjusts the air to water ratio. If it's adjusted all the way in, there is less water going thru the pump and in turn, less air. If it's adjusted too far out, you have less air and more water.. I'd double check that and start there. You should have it set to around 1 to 1.5 turns out as a starting point. .

Not the issue, I already checked the volute adjustment.

If you verify that and that's not the issue, then I'd pull the pump apart and make sure the magnet isn't spinning on the impeller shaft. The magnet should not spin on the shaft at all. The magnet is bonded to the shaft and any slippage will inhibit the pump from producing proper flow.

If it doesn't spin on the shaft, the next thing I would do is verify that the impeller spins freely in the pump body. I know you said it spins free but did you verify this with the volute on as well? If not, with the pump assembled, use a thin screw driver to reach in through the pumps intake (you may need to remove the adjustable intake and verify that the impeller still rotates freely with the pump assembled. If it doesn't then the impeller isn't seated all the way into the bushing or the bushing is all the way seated into the motor block thus causing the impeller to sit to far up in the motor body which then causes it to bind with volute.

It spins freely on the shaft and the magnet is still bonded to it, already checked multiple times.

It is very difficult to check that the impeller rotates freely in the pump body because when it is in the body, the magnet stops it from freely spinning. It does rotate and the volute is not causing it to bind, nor is the impeller housing which I have adjusted several times to see if that is the issue.

One other thing to double check is the silencer. There is a foam filter in the silencer. You can open the silencer up and check to see if the filter is really dirty or if there is water in there. Either could inhibit air flow. The foam filter can be washed.

I checked this and have been testing it without the silencer.


When properly adjusted and setup, it seems like the pump is not pumping enough water into the skimmer. When I take off the volute, it pumps a ton of water. And even when I adjust the volute wide open, water flow increases.

I can try and take a video and post it.

Thanks for the thoughts Slief.

 

[slief]

It spins freely on the shaft and the magnet is still bonded to it, already checked multiple times.

Are you saying the magnet spins freely on the impeller shaft?? If so, that's not good.. The magnet should not spin on the shaft. I assume that was a typo or miscommunication...

Worse case, get yourself this pump. You can probably make an offer of $125 and get it for that.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laguna-Max-...729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405d11e51

Open it up and inside is the same Askoll motor block that comes with your Red Dragon. Pull it apart and install your Red Dragon impeller and volute. Test it first and make sure it's producing bubbles as it should. If all appears to be good then clearly your RD motor block failed prematurely. Pry the base off your Red Dragon and glue it to your new Askoll block and you will be set. Those Red Dragons are usually very reliable... My Alpha 300 had two of them and with minimal maintenance, they lasted more than 3 years without skipping a beat before I upgraded to a Supermarin. I did however keep a spare motor block on hand just in case and it came from the same model pump in the link above.

If it proves not to be your motor block, you can always sell the Laguna pump/block for $150 here on the forum.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Let me start by saying I love my SM 200. It has run flawlessly for 2 years, fantastic skimmer. However after cleaning the pump today and reassembling, the pump is not working properly. Everything is in great shape. I am fairly confident I reassembled it correctly since I have done it before with no issues (and I have triple checked the reassembly and cross referenced every possible problem with Red Dragon manual - bearing seated correctly, gaskets in place, screws not over tighten, impeller rotates freely, Riser tube/Air intake is not clogged, no calcium build up, etc.

I have no clue why all of a sudden I am having this problem. Any thoughts from other SM 200/Red Dragon 1500 pump users?

I called premium aquatics (where I bought it) to see if they can help me (Jeremy is gone!) and they basically can't help. Michelle at PA tried, but she passed me onto Royal-Exclusiv in Florida. I was then told by Matias they need to send an email to Germany to get me help!!!??? So why are they here??

Very dis-appointed with both PA and Royal Exclusiv's initial response. We will see what the future brings. I will remain optimistic for now.

brett

Again with bad customer service. Being an owner of a Royal Exclusive skimmer, I hate hearing that. Might be selling my skimmer soon. If there is ever a problem with my pump, I DO NOT want to deal with that kind of customer service. Such a bummer. :/

 

[jthao]

The supermarin 200 uses the big block motor so the stand for the block is not glued in. It's very easy to remove the stand and put new motor block in. The motor block attaches to the stand from behind, and the volute attaches to the front of the stand, essentially making the stand the middle section between the block and the volute. The small block red dragons are the smaller askoll blocks and for those the stand is glued to the bottom of the block and the volute itself is screwed right onto the front of the motor block.
I have the sm200 as well, and it has never given me problems. But like someone here mentioned, I also keep a motor block on hand just in case. I actually have a Laguna max flow 2000 motor block. It's the same big block that the red dragon 1000-2500 uses. The vertex alpha line of skimmers uses the small block motors, as well as the supermarin skimmers that use 2 pumps (the second pump is the small block). I used to have a deluxe200, it uses the big block red dragon 1000. It pulls less air and water than the supermarin line, but I believe that due to the skimmer body being open design and more water/air contact time, it's rated for same as sm200. I believe the inside cone design of the supermarin, limits its contact time a bit and essentially even though the body is same size as the deluxe 200, the actual mixing area inside the body is less than the deluxe model.
Brett: I would do what someone suggested. Buy a Laguna pump, and fit the block onto your stand/volute etc. See if that solves the problem. Worst case is that you have an extra motor block I suspect that if youve done everything and it still doesn't work right, your motor may be going bad.

 

[jthao]

Btw: I use the sm200 and the red dragon 6.5m because they use the same block. So my extra block can be used for either pump. I like this idea better than having two different red dragon pumps (big block and small block).
I myself don't forsee ever changing to the dc pumps because it doesn't really do anything special that my current pumps don't do, same wattage usage, and same water/air mixture. I don't ever need to adjust the speed of my skimmer or return pump, it's simply on or off. I could see using a dc pump as a closed loop pump though, cuss programming the pump on apex to ramp up and down on the closed loop would be pretty neat!! That would eliminate having to use an oceans motion device or something of the sort since the pump ramping up and down will create the same thing.

 

[BrettH]

Are you saying the magnet spins freely on the impeller shaft?? If so, that's not good.. The magnet should not spin on the shaft. I assume that was a typo or miscommunication...

No, the magnet does not spin on the shaft

Worse case, get yourself this pump. You can probably make an offer of $125 and get it for that.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laguna-Max-...729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405d11e51

So the block inside the Laguna will work with this pump?
View attachment 296131


Just an updated regarding Premium Aquatics. I emailed Jason and he has been in contact with me, so Kudos to PA for being proactive. Jason has offered me a potential solution to my problem if Royal doesn't take care of this matter in a timely fashion. We will see what tomorrow brings.

Thanks for the help.
brett

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Btw: I use the sm200 and the red dragon 6.5m because they use the same block. So my extra block can be used for either pump. I like this idea better than having two different red dragon pumps (big block and small block).
I myself don't forsee ever changing to the dc pumps because it doesn't really do anything special that my current pumps don't do, same wattage usage, and same water/air mixture. I don't ever need to adjust the speed of my skimmer or return pump, it's simply on or off. I could see using a dc pump as a closed loop pump though, cuss programming the pump on apex to ramp up and down on the closed loop would be pretty neat!! That would eliminate having to use an oceans motion device or something of the sort since the pump ramping up and down will create the same thing.

Totally agree about the DC pump not being a good choice for a skimmer pulp. Still don't get why RE decided to switch from the awesome Askoll motor blocks. Oh well