Ca RX or Doser?

[maxxII]

I'm in the early stages of restarting my 120 SPS and anemone reef. The tank has been running with fish and some LPS since March. I've got a Geo 618 calcium reactor that I've used in the past, but have always had to fiddle and fuss with bubble counts fluctuating and with the effluent line ,(controlled by micro ball valve into first chamber of sump), getting clogged up by effluent and salt crust. This would cause parameters to fluctuate.

I'm looking at either getting doser and giving the Triton method a shot, or purchasing an Aquarium Plants Carbon Doser electronic regulator and using a peristaltic pump to feed/pull from the reactor.


What do you guys think? Should I stick with calcium reactor or should go with a doser?

 

[Bpb]

I vote calcium reactor just invest in a quality regulator and masterflex/Watson Marlow pump. The carbon doser is fine but you can build a dual stage regulator of higher quality for the same price or cheaper which will last a lot longer. Check out the thread here in the equipment forum on building a co2 regulator. I had two built for less than the price of carbon dosers. Once it's set up its just less work. No sending off samples to test and dosing individual things and what not


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[Piper27]

No brainier, Masterflex and carbondoser. Especially if your used to a reactor. The geo 618 has a pump that's undersized imo, or did at least. I always like running bigger pumps on my reactors to keep things from trapping and move the small particles around where they don't collect in dead spaces. When I changed to a bigger pump I didn't have as much clogging in my drip line and no bubbles trapping.
I switched to dosing pumps and can't wait to hook up my reactor again! Growth sucks compared to it in my experience. I gotta get this new one going again....:mad2:

 

[maxxII]

Bpb - Thanks, I'll look for the thread.

Piper27 - What pump did you upgrade to from the Eheim 1048 that came with it?
Also, what Masterflex pump and head would you suggest?

 

[glaukos]

I like dosers only because i've found(at least for me) it's easier to control kh,mg or ca separately.
My corals growth rate changes from time to time and in this case(doser) it's easier to control(drop or keep at the same level) each one of them.
Cr gave me a hard time increasing/decreasing and readjusting all over again.

Plus i've always had that silly fear of something going terribly wrong with the co2 tank
But that's just silly me.

I think they both work and which one is a better choice,is defined by each hobbyist separately and his needs/routines/etc.

What troubled me though is what piper said about noticing better growth.Not doubting you my friend,you simply put thoughts in my mind.:sad1:
I used cr way to many years ago and i can't make a comparison of my own in that matter.

 

[Piper27]

Well need to get a new Masterflex pump myself because my old one has a bad motor. I haven't started looking at the options they have now. There is a good thread on here about them though I just can't find it yet.
I put a syncra 1.5 on it and although I don't like the hose barb fittings it comes with it worked good for the time I ran it. I am sure there are better options out there.
I see so many people having luck with dosing pumps though. I have been using them for the past two years and I just can't figure out why growth isn't as good. Maybe I just need to wait for the smaller frags and colonies to take off.
Maybe the stability of the calcium reactor treats me better since I like to use dolomite for mag and hate testing. With dosing pumps I sometimes forget to adjust them or refill them.

 

[Pife]

I'm in the early stages of restarting my 120 SPS and anemone reef. The tank has been running with fish and some LPS since March. I've got a Geo 618 calcium reactor that I've used in the past, but have always had to fiddle and fuss with bubble counts fluctuating and with the effluent line ,(controlled by micro ball valve into first chamber of sump), getting clogged up by effluent and salt crust. This would cause parameters to fluctuate.

I'm looking at either getting doser and giving the Triton method a shot, or purchasing an Aquarium Plants Carbon Doser electronic regulator and using a peristaltic pump to feed/pull from the reactor.


What do you guys think? Should I stick with calcium reactor or should go with a doser?

I run a calcium reactor setup the way you are saying. You can come take a look at it some night if you want. I would not purchase an aquarium plants regulator again. I would build a two stage for the same money. But if you really want the aquarium plants one I might be parting with mine in a month or so. (building a 2 stage)

 

[swk]

Calrx with peristaltic pump hands down. I use a geo with a masterflex pump and Carbon doser co2 reg. It's as adjustable as any dosing pump and won't nuke the tank if something sticks on.

 

[maxxII]

Well need to get a new Masterflex pump myself because my old one has a bad motor. I haven't started looking at the options they have now. There is a good thread on here about them though I just can't find it yet.
I put a syncra 1.5 on it and although I don't like the hose barb fittings it comes with it worked good for the time I ran it. I am sure there are better options out there.
I see so many people having luck with dosing pumps though. I have been using them for the past two years and I just can't figure out why growth isn't as good. Maybe I just need to wait for the smaller frags and colonies to take off.
Maybe the stability of the calcium reactor treats me better since I like to use dolomite for mag and hate testing. With dosing pumps I sometimes forget to adjust them or refill them.

They are being sold with the Sicce Syncra pumps now....

Here is the thread you are looking for: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2368618

 

[maxxII]

I run a calcium reactor setup the way you are saying. You can come take a look at it some night if you want. I would not purchase an aquarium plants regulator again. I would build a two stage for the same money. But if you really want the aquarium plants one I might be parting with mine in a month or so. (building a 2 stage)

Are you building a two stage using information from the thread here? I may have to follow along with you and do the same...

Why are you ditching the Aquarium Plants regulator for a DIY Two Stage?

I have a spare Reef Fanatic Regulator that is basically NIB....could that be scavenged for parts towards the DIY Two Stage, (DTS)?

I definitely want to come see your system some night soon.

I'm on page 3 of the Masterflex thread....need to go find the DTS thread and get reading on that. I just skimmed the first page and got dragged into something with the kids....

 

[mikeatjac]

I use a CR and like other have said you want a good peristaltic pump and regulator or you will pull your hair out. Not really sure which is cheaper in the long run when you add everything up.

I like the CR because I am out of town a lot but I still have to dose about 40ml of alk a week to keep everything in balance.

 

[Piper27]

They are being sold with the Sicce Syncra pumps now....

Here is the thread you are looking for: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2368618

Thanks the the link! Finally they changed the pump! Man people will love this I tell you. It has twice the power as the old ehiem did. I wish they stuck with a better ehiem pump though.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Ca RX or Doser?

Been running a calcium reactor for the past 4 years, I'll never switch to dosing. I setup a frag tank, and to save a little money I went with a doser. I couldn't stand messing with it all the time. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned they like being able to adjust alk/Ca separately. That's funny, because I've never had an issue with my reactor not keeping both Alk and Ca at the correct numbers.

I think the biggest problem people have with calcium reactors is not knowing how to use them properly. Once you figure it out, it's really simple. The other thing people do, is try running it with out the right equipment. Having a quality needle valve to adjust effluent is key. And also having a quality micro needle valve on your co2 regulator is a must. Unless you go with the carbon doser regulator. Look into getting a second chamber as well. Made a big difference on my Geo 624. The ph in my tank has been much more stable now that I added a large second chamber.

Here's some pics of my setup.
Geo 624 reactor. Ditched the Panworld pump it came with, and added a Sicce pump. More flow, runs quieter, runs cooler, and uses less electricity. I'm running a custom Matheson 2 stage regulator. And I have an avast marine second chamber. I feed the reactor from my manifold on my return pump.









I don't see the need for a masterflex feed pump, but that's because I have my effluent line running wide open. For people with less demand, the masterflex makes sense. But eventually, if your tank grows and matures, you will need your effluent running wide open, then there really isn't a need for an expensive peristaltic pump.

This is the PVC needle valve I was talking about. I'm pretty sure BRS sells them.


(Don't mind the rats nest in the background. That was from a DIY led setup I used to run)

 

[Piper27]

Well put, I agree the peristaltic pump is not needed with a good needle valve, but makes things easier for sure. I like how you added better hose barb fittings on the syncra pump.
I also am confused when people say that reactors don't put out equal amounts of calcium and alk. I think that's false and they could be running it wrong. I think maybe people run them at a higher pH than needed and the media is not dissolving correctly. I like to run mine at 6.3 so I can melt dolomite with it. Also I like to run the recirculation pump at a size big enough to where stuff doesn't collect and sit at the top of the media but that's just me. I had better luck running needle valves with a bigger recirculation pump.
Also I have had problems where alk and calcium were not balanced and funny growth would form, I never had this with a calcium reactor. And adjusting through the imbalance took months before things start growing right. I only see these growth deformations like hyperplasia (spelling?) with dosers.
Also the second chamber does help a lot and it doesn't have to be big. I did an experiment with a small di resin canister filled with media and a large reactor at least 10 times the size and both had the same affect on pH. I think it upped pH .4 before hitting the tank. But I can't remember exactly. I believe running the effluent over a small tub of reactor media over the sump and letting it overflow into the sump might be about as effective.
I believe running a reactor is better for corals than dosing because it's melting everything the corals need and constantly feeding them elements. I tried bionic since they said it has all thoes elements but I didn't get the same results at all. Maybe they have the same elements but not at the same ratio or something could be missing. I dunno just spit balling.
I need to get my apex up so I can control my reactor and get it going again. I bet I will see a big difference in my tank

 

[ksed]

Did you make new holes to fasten the Sicce down onto the bottom plate?

Been running a calcium reactor for the past 4 years, I'll never switch to dosing. I setup a frag tank, and to save a little money I went with a doser. I couldn't stand messing with it all the time. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned they like being able to adjust alk/Ca separately. That's funny, because I've never had an issue with my reactor not keeping both Alk and Ca at the correct numbers.

I think the biggest problem people have with calcium reactors is not knowing how to use them properly. Once you figure it out, it's really simple. The other thing people do, is try running it with out the right equipment. Having a quality needle valve to adjust effluent is key. And also having a quality micro needle valve on your co2 regulator is a must. Unless you go with the carbon doser regulator. Look into getting a second chamber as well. Made a big difference on my Geo 624. The ph in my tank has been much more stable now that I added a large second chamber.

Here's some pics of my setup.
Geo 624 reactor. Ditched the Panworld pump it came with, and added a Sicce pump. More flow, runs quieter, runs cooler, and uses less electricity. I'm running a custom Matheson 2 stage regulator. And I have an avast marine second chamber. I feed the reactor from my manifold on my return pump.









I don't see the need for a masterflex feed pump, but that's because I have my effluent line running wide open. For people with less demand, the masterflex makes sense. But eventually, if your tank grows and matures, you will need your effluent running wide open, then there really isn't a need for an expensive peristaltic pump.

This is the PVC needle valve I was talking about. I'm pretty sure BRS sells them.


(Don't mind the rats nest in the background. That was from a DIY led setup I used to run)

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Did you make new holes to fasten the Sicce down onto the bottom plate?

The Sicce comes with suction cups on be bottom, I just stuck it the acrylic base. Works great

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Well put, I agree the peristaltic pump is not needed with a good needle valve, but makes things easier for sure. I like how you added better hose barb fittings on the syncra pump.

I also am confused when people say that reactors don't put out equal amounts of calcium and alk. I think that's false and they could be running it wrong. I think maybe people run them at a higher pH than needed and the media is not dissolving correctly. I like to run mine at 6.3 so I can melt dolomite with it. Also I like to run the recirculation pump at a size big enough to where stuff doesn't collect and sit at the top of the media but that's just me. I had better luck running needle valves with a bigger recirculation pump.

Also I have had problems where alk and calcium were not balanced and funny growth would form, I never had this with a calcium reactor. And adjusting through the imbalance took months before things start growing right. I only see these growth deformations like hyperplasia (spelling?) with dosers.

Also the second chamber does help a lot and it doesn't have to be big. I did an experiment with a small di resin canister filled with media and a large reactor at least 10 times the size and both had the same affect on pH. I think it upped pH .4 before hitting the tank. But I can't remember exactly. I believe running the effluent over a small tub of reactor media over the sump and letting it overflow into the sump might be about as effective.

I believe running a reactor is better for corals than dosing because it's melting everything the corals need and constantly feeding them elements. I tried bionic since they said it has all thoes elements but I didn't get the same results at all. Maybe they have the same elements but not at the same ratio or something could be missing. I dunno just spit balling.

I need to get my apex up so I can control my reactor and get it going again. I bet I will see a big difference in my tank

I ran one too. My tanks ph has actually been more stable with the bigger second chamber. My tanks ph would drop to 7.8-7.9 at night. Now it won't go below 8.1.

 

[maxxII]

SchnitzelReef,
Which Avast reactor/2nd chamber is that? I've got two Avast products and I'm quite happy with them. Wont hesitate to purchase other items from them....

 

[Bpb]

I'm going to have to disagree on the sicce > eheim comments. I have known sicce pumps to be overhyped garbage, my last one having an exploded impeller in under 9 months and their reps refusing to offer me anything even though it was under warranty. I have had eheim products run 10+ years and still going. I run a geo 618 that premium aquatics retrofitted for me to still fit the eheim pump despite it being a newer model designed to run with the sicce.


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