Canopy fan suggestions..?

MrSpiffy

Premium Member
I'm looking into some fans for my canopy. I don't have holes cut into the ends for end-to-end flow, but the rear of the canopy is open and could have fans placed there.

What type of fans would you suggest? I've looked at a couple types...

* 12V DC computer fans
* 120V AC fans

What are the advantages of each?

I want something quiet. I had some 120mm or larger 120V AC fans a while back that were incredibly quiet. But these fans aren't that cheap, and you cannot use a potentiometer to adjust fan speed with AC fans. But, in any case, I want to know what the best type of fan would be for my setup.

Thanks in advance for any help! :)
 
I installed 2 120mm computer fans into my hood. They do a great job. I had some left from a bulk order I placed a while back - wired them up to an extra wall wart I had lying around.
 
Yeah, that's kinda what I have going right now. It's not the most efficient setup for me, though. Like I mentioned above, I have the back of the canopy open, so that's where I mounted my fans. I have one pushing air into the canopy on one side, and one pulling air out on the other. I think they're 80mm or 90mm fans. But it hasn't been enough to keep my halides cool. So, I'm looking at bigger or higher-CFM fans, but I want them quiet. I suppose I could just add two more fans and see how that goes.
 
I'll beat DesertRat to this one:

I suggest Vantec Stealth 120's. They are very quiet and reliable. I believe they have a lifetime warranty as well. They are about $12 at Newegg.com
 
Yep!
The Vantec Stealths are pretty inexpensive and darn quiet at 53CFM. I power them with a variable voltage DC "wall wart" type power supply so I can vary the voltage which varies the fan speed for almost dead silence. Power supplies can also be purchased at newegg or even from Wal Mart for less than $10, I got all of mine at Harbor Freight for less than $5 but cannot find the part number listed any more.
I would suggest having both fans blow in and drill holes in the tp over the reflectors so air has to rise out the top carrying the heat away both by forced air and by convection. I found having a fan in each end both blowing in, and a closed back with holes in the top works best for me. Two fans work great even in Phoenix, my chiller has not come on it over a month even with the house set at 79 degrees.
 
I'll chime in with both a question and my experience:

Vantecs are excellent fans. Really quiet, without sacrificing a ton of airflow. I've had 4 of the 80mms on my PC case for a few years, and really like them. I got my at bestbyteinc.com. They sell the 92mms for $8 and the 120mms for $12, and their shipping is reasonable.

Now, I'm in the process of working my canopy build and will need to add cooling. I want to do a total of 4 92mms. I'd like to have 2 intakes on each side to flow air across a t5 retro kit. I would like to add a second set as exhausts for the top of the canopy.

Can I put multiple case fans on the same 12v wall wart? If so, how many are safe on the same wall wart?
 
I put two on mine, previously. Just find out what kind of power those fans draw and compare it to what the power supply is rated at. There should be a number on there, somewhere... and fans don't pull that much, maybe 5-10W each.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13126354#post13126354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cardiffgiant
I'll chime in with both a question and my experience:

Vantecs are excellent fans. Really quiet, without sacrificing a ton of airflow. I've had 4 of the 80mms on my PC case for a few years, and really like them. I got my at bestbyteinc.com. They sell the 92mms for $8 and the 120mms for $12, and their shipping is reasonable.

Now, I'm in the process of working my canopy build and will need to add cooling. I want to do a total of 4 92mms. I'd like to have 2 intakes on each side to flow air across a t5 retro kit. I would like to add a second set as exhausts for the top of the canopy.

Can I put multiple case fans on the same 12v wall wart? If so, how many are safe on the same wall wart?

Your wall wart should have power ratings on it. It should have something like:

Input: 110 - 120 VAC
Output: 12V ___ Amps (may be mA)

Just make sure the draw of your fans doesn't exceed that number (I personally would reccomend a little head room, incase of a spike you don't risk frying stuff as easily). You can put as many fans on as you wish. Also, remeber to wire them in parallel, not series - so they each get full power instead of what's left after the first fan.
 
Re: Canopy fan suggestions..?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13082173#post13082173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
But these fans aren't that cheap, and you cannot use a potentiometer to adjust fan speed with AC fans.

Why can't you put a pot. on an AC fan? Thats what a dimmer switch is for a light or a ceiling fan.....
 
The motor specifically has to be made for variable speed, or you'll heat it up and burn it out. I looked into that a while back, too. It's just not an option.

And dimmers are different than potentiometers, in that the way that they adjust voltage is different because of the alternating current.

Either way, you can't just use a DC pot on AC. And dimmers will burn motors out, too, unless they're variable-speed motors.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13132162#post13132162 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSpiffy
The motor specifically has to be made for variable speed, or you'll heat it up and burn it out. I looked into that a while back, too. It's just not an option.

And dimmers are different than potentiometers, in that the way that they adjust voltage is different because of the alternating current.

Either way, you can't just use a DC pot on AC. And dimmers will burn motors out, too, unless they're variable-speed motors.

Yes, you are correct. I was assuming you were thinking of purchasing a variable speed fan. I should have noted that in my post. Sorry about that.
 
Just rambling but ... wouldn't it be cool if you hooked up a kitchen range hood over your canopy?! Like have the fan in the attic and vent the hot air straight out to the outside? Or like a wall mounted bathroom fan so that air is dumped right out the wall!

Not difficlult to actually do IF you own your own house and IF you aren't married to someone who will execute you on the spot with a carving knife when you pull your reciprocating saw out in the living room.... ;)

V
 
Its sounds easy but really isn't. All that hot air you are evacuating has to be replaced from somewhere. In my case in Phoenix its as hot if not hotter outside so I do not want to draw hot outside air in and have to air condition it. Modern houses are pretty airtight so you reach a point where you really are not moving any air just pulling a slight vacuum.
Same goes for homes in the winter where it gets cold, you would have to heat the air coming in that is replacing the vented air and that again may end up being an expensive operation.

cardiffgiant, adding fans to exhaust is a waste of energy if you already have fans blowing cool dry air in. All the additional fans do, if you have an enclosed canopy is move the exact same CFM that is fed to them. If your back is open thats a different story though. My canopy is completely sealed so I have one 4" Vantec in each end blowing in with holes drilled directly on top over the reflectors that have a greater surface area than the fans so they do not have to push against any head pressure. This also works well even when the fans are not running since it takes advantage of natural convection. You can stick your hand over the canopy and feel a natural draft with no fans.
 
I also heard it's better to blow air IN, rather than draw air out because if you draw moist salty air through the fans, it may rust them (I know, I know, most are plastic with sealed bearings!) but if you draw outside (of canopy) air into the canopy, it's not a problem. All things being equal then it't better to blow air in.

In computers though, you draw air out (generally through the power supply), but that might have more to do with blowing dust into the case, and of course, good computer cases and the ATX/BTX MB specs are designed to have air drawn out.... I think when we make canopies, we often overlook airflow.

My own canopy has a mostly open back and above the halide reflectors I have large holes...but my temps still get high enough that I need to (but haven't) added a fan. I used to just use a clip on $10 AC fan, until the clip broke, but was too lazy to replace it.

V
 
$8 clip on Wal Mart fans are a lifesaver. I still keep one over my sump and hooked to a Ranco controller so if my chiller or canopy fans quit the sump fan comes on with a 2 degree rise. Better safe than sorry and cheap insurance!
 
Re: Re: Canopy fan suggestions..?

Re: Re: Canopy fan suggestions..?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13132131#post13132131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aprosody
Why can't you put a pot. on an AC fan? Thats what a dimmer switch is for a light or a ceiling fan.....

FYI, if you are using a dimmer switch on a ceiling fan, you might need to replace your ceiling fan shortly ;) Not only that, but they make the motor give off a pretty annoying sound.

For variable speed fans (case and ceiling) there are switches that will set them to each speed. I have a 3 position switch for my ceiling fans that looks like a dimmer switch, but it's actually a switch that's designed for variable speed ceiling fans.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13132397#post13132397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
cardiffgiant, adding fans to exhaust is a waste of energy if you already have fans blowing cool dry air in. All the additional fans do, if you have an enclosed canopy is move the exact same CFM that is fed to them. If your back is open thats a different story though. My canopy is completely sealed so I have one 4" Vantec in each end blowing in with holes drilled directly on top over the reflectors that have a greater surface area than the fans so they do not have to push against any head pressure. This also works well even when the fans are not running since it takes advantage of natural convection. You can stick your hand over the canopy and feel a natural draft with no fans.

I'd have a hard time disagreeing with you ,simply on the merit that you've built a canopy that functions the way that you want it to, and I haven't yet. However, I have had a lot of experience building computers and modding cases for airflow (totally different "hot enclosure", I know).

In theory... and it's generally theoretical, since the friction caused by obstacles and fan positioning impacts the performance of each fan (much like friction in our plumbing impacts water flow)...

My plan is to "seal" the back. Meaning, generally close it off, but it won't be air tight.

Intake Only - having only intake fans will create positive pressure within the airspace of the canopy. The general advantage of this arrangement is that the positive pressure in the canopy is created with cooler air. The negative is that this creates back pressure on your intake fans as they need to force the air out of the exhaust (assisted by the fact that heat rises). You also have two fans pointing at each other, which (much like powerheads) creates disturbance, but doesn’t dictate a flow.

Exhaust Only - having only exhaust fans will create negative pressure within the canopy. This could be an advantage when using very strong fans and exhausting very high heat. The negative is that this generally results in cooler outside air coming into the target area at a slower pace, and forward pressure is created for the fans as they work to pull cool air through the area.

Intake and Exhaust - an even flow situation in which (under appropriate conditions) the fans are feeding cool air in and exhausting hot air out at an even pace, resulting in optimal performance and maximum air flow for each set of fans. The drawback is that it's the highest cost configuration, and could be over kill.

One could use this option with one intake on one side, and one exhaust on the other. However, this will result in half of your bulbs getting cold air passed across them, and the other half getting hot air. Hot air will also rise to the top of the canopy, so you may end up sucking out cooler air, and trapping hotter air?

Overall - When I've cooled computer cases, even flow and positive flow configurations have always resulted in lower temperatures than negative flow. That being said, an even flow has been better than positive flow when the case is “sealed,” but positive flow has been better than even flow if the case is open (leaving the side off in hot months). In other words, just blowing cooler air in and letting everything blow out the side produces the best result, but might not be feasible for everyone.

Of course, all bets are off when the ambient temp of the room is the same or greater a temp than the canopy. In colder months, where you are heating the tank, you still want to cool your canopy to keep your bulbs cool. My plan is to put the exhaust fans on a 12v switch and turn them off when they aren’t needed.

It’d be interesting to do what I did with computer cases, and test temperatures with different types of configurations.
 
Computer cases and aquarium canopies are very different. I have experimented since 1992 on a number of different tanks and sizes and always come back to the current configuration of one 4" fan in each end blowing in and exit holes on the very top of an enclosed canopy. I have tried multiple fans, single fans, variable speed fans, high speed fans, ball bearing, sleeve bearing, blowing in, blowing out, in and out, on top, in the back, on the sides, etc. I used an electronic air conditioning techs thermometer for the testing as well as built in a thermometer intended for a computer case and everything agreed the configuration I use is the best for my usage. I have 2x250w MH and 2x140w VHOs in my totally enclosed canopy and the 1/4HP chiller has not run since early May before I switched on my evaporative cooler in the house. I now run the AC but its set at 79 degrees so doesn't lend much cooling to the tanks.
In an enclosed canopy I could stack 100 fans in a row but the last fan is only going to move the same amout of air the very first fan in line fed to thesecond and so on. You do not add CFM, only pass it along so fans blowing in and out are a waste of energy. Not to mention in an aquarium situation fans blowing out fail prematurely due to hot moist salt air build up on them and gumming them up. Another added advantage of the openings on top is convection, I get natural cooling even without the fans on at night just from convection. I can hold my hand over the top of the canopy and feel air movement with no fans.
 
The problem with a sealed canopy and a single fan ... what happens if the fan breaks for some reason?

Also, it makes sense to put hole above the lights...fans or no, it just seems to be logical, why fight nature/physics? ie; I'd suggest them for all canopies.

V
 
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