Can't keep tangs alive

[bstubbz17]

I've only been in the saltwater world for about 6 months now, but I've done a ton of research/learning in the midst of that. The main problem I have is keeping tangs alive. I have probably lost a dozen of them or more in my tanks over time, and quite frankly, I'm tired of being a fish killer. I'm looking for any suggestions I can get.

Fast facts:
120 gallon tank
40 gallon sump
No protein skimmer right now, but it's only been off for a couple days (it broke)
Complete refugium setup + bio balls + an additional Fluval 406 canister filter
UV sterilizer
3 powerheads - Koralia 1650, unknown 700 and 500
Feed garlic infused seaweed once a day and a variety of frozen foods that the whole tank loves (mysis, blood worm mixes, etc)

Not sure how much live rock I have, but I've played around with the formations to provide more hiding spots...per what I read from other posters. None of that did anything. I check my water regularly, and I have yet to see any issues since my tank was fully established.

Right now, I have a large blue hippo in the tank that I got from a guy whose tank I purchased (separate from the 120 I have setup). It has been doing well for a couple weeks. Ordered a 3" powder blue to try my luck with because the hippo always hides, and it died within a week. Such has been the case for every other tang, aside from a teeny tiny blue hippo that I have in a nano tank for now (he was quarantined). Anthias, clownfish, chromis, wrasse, foxface (no longer in the tank), inverts of all kinds...all work just fine. It's only the tangs.

I didn't quarantine this last powder, which may have been part of the problem. However, I've quarantined others, and they've all iched out and died within 1-2 weeks.

Do I need more oxygen? Better equipment? Anything?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

Tank transfer method for everthing coming in then QT and fallow DT for 8-12 weeks.

 

[Allmost]

pics ? and alot more info about the tank.

how do they die ? are you sure the blue tang is not killing them ?

 

[bstubbz17]

pics ? and alot more info about the tank.

how do they die ? are you sure the blue tang is not killing them ?

I've only had the blue tang for a couple weeks. All the others from the past died long before him. The only one in the tank with him was this recent powder blue, but the hippo rarely interacted with her.

They all die overnight, and most of the time they have ich beforehand. I had one set of tangs kill each other in a brawl, but all the others start breathing heavily, sitting at the bottom of the tank, and essentially suffocate...from what I can see before I go to bed.

Pics will have to come later. Don't have any on this computer. What do you want to know about the tank though?

 

[Allmost]

if hippo is hidding all day .... is there room for it to swim around ?

for sure you do not have enough flow in the tank.

right now you have disease in your tank, so need to kill / remove that.

what you need to do, is to double check the aquarium plan [flow, rocks and filteration], and leave it empty of fish for at least 8 weeks.

meanwhile QT all fish, first get them to eat in QT1. then do tank transfer, then prazi pro and so on, and after 8 weeks, add them to the main tank.

go on fish disease subforums for more details on QT and tank transfer and so on,

 

[scuzy]

When you quarantine do you treat for ih and flukes? I would proactively treat for ich and fluke with cupramine and prazi. I do cupramine for 4 weeks now and prazi pro for 2 weeks then only after that i will introduce to display tank. If your dt has ich it needs to go fallow or it'll just keep attacking the fish.

 

[bstubbz17]

if hippo is hidding all day .... is there room for it to swim around ?

for sure you do not have enough flow in the tank.

right now you have disease in your tank, so need to kill / remove that.

what you need to do, is to double check the aquarium plan [flow, rocks and filteration], and leave it empty of fish for at least 8 weeks.

meanwhile QT all fish, first get them to eat in QT1. then do tank transfer, then prazi pro and so on, and after 8 weeks, add them to the main tank.

go on fish disease subforums for more details on QT and tank transfer and so on,

By hiding all day, I mean that it likes to sit in caves. Every blue hippo I've had did this, including the baby that is thriving in my smaller tank. she has plenty of swimming space.

I don't have enough space to house all of my fish outside of my tank. All I have is my occupied nano and my 20 gallon qt. No other fish in my current setup have shown signs of problems. I'm just trying to avoid issues in the future, should I introduce a second tang.

 

[bstubbz17]

When you quarantine do you treat for ih and flukes? I would proactively treat for ich and fluke with cupramine and prazi. I do cupramine for 4 weeks now and prazi pro for 2 weeks then only after that i will introduce to display tank. If your dt has ich it needs to go fallow or it'll just keep attacking the fish.

I have in the past, but not to the degree that I should have. The ich killers I used didn't do anything, and had I quarantined this powder, I would have used hyposalinity. I have damsels in my qt that I'm holding for a friend, so I didn't want to throw powder in there. That i realize was a mistake...won't be repeated.

 

[BrianD]

Hiding is absolutely normal for hepatus tangs. You haven't given a great deal of information about the types of tangs you have added, but I can tell you that I couldn't recommend a hepatus, powder blue or "a set of tangs" for a 120 gallon tank.

The hepatus gets too big, power blue tangs have a high captive mortality rate, and "set" to me indicates too many tangs in a smallish tank.

 

[Allmost]

By hiding all day, I mean that it likes to sit in caves. Every blue hippo I've had did this, including the baby that is thriving in my smaller tank. she has plenty of swimming space.

I don't have enough space to house all of my fish outside of my tank. All I have is my occupied nano and my 20 gallon qt. No other fish in my current setup have shown signs of problems. I'm just trying to avoid issues in the future, should I introduce a second tang.

a healthy Blue tang acts like a tang. it swims, and swims ALOT. against the flow, and it sleeps by hidding/shoving itself between rocks. a blue tang hidding in cave all day is not healthy nor happy. like a dog sitting in corner with its tail under it.

 

[scuzy]

I have in the past, but not to the degree that I should have. The ich killers I used didn't do anything, and had I quarantined this powder, I would have used hyposalinity. I have damsels in my qt that I'm holding for a friend, so I didn't want to throw powder in there. That i realize was a mistake...won't be repeated.

Basically no point to quarantine since your display tank has ich it will attach to all the fish. Only way is to treat all fish and let display die of this parasite. Just because you cant see it doesn't mean its not there

 

[BrianD]

a healthy Blue tang acts like a tang. it swims, and swims ALOT. against the flow, and it sleeps by hidding/shoving itself between rocks. a blue tang hidding in cave all day is not healthy nor happy. like a dog sitting in corner with its tail under it.

I would consider it perfectly normal for a newly added hepatus tang to hide for a period of time. They may eventually become more outgoing in a tank, but every hepatus I have had spent a substantial amount of time in concealment.

 

[lilalove]

Do you have a way of measuring dissolved oxygen? Tangs require a higher O2 saturation because of their activity, and are normally found in very turbulent waters in the ocean. Since the mysterious deaths only affect the tangs, this would be my first guess. Skimmers help in aeration but you did say yours broke only a couple of days ago. Is there a glass lid on your top?

 

[Allmost]

I would consider it perfectly normal for a newly added hepatus tang to hide for a period of time. They may eventually become more outgoing in a tank, but every hepatus I have had spent a substantial amount of time in concealment.

well in my experience with them, its true for the first day or so while acclimating, but I have had different experience with mine.

I dont know, but Id think there is a problem if the fish doesnt start swimming around after a couple of weeks, specially a tang. how long did yours that was hidding most of the day live for ?

JME

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

unfortunately if there were signs of ich on any of the fish in your system you will need to remove all fish and go through the proper steps or you will continue to have problems in the future.

 

[SushiGirl]

Do you have a way of measuring dissolved oxygen? Tangs require a higher O2 saturation because of their activity, and are normally found in very turbulent waters in the ocean. Since the mysterious deaths only affect the tangs, this would be my first guess. Skimmers help in aeration but you did say yours broke only a couple of days ago. Is there a glass lid on your top?

I have to agree with this. What's the surface agitation like? Does your pH drop drastically at night...is your sump on an opposite light schedule as your tank?

 

[bstubbz17]

Do you have a way of measuring dissolved oxygen? Tangs require a higher O2 saturation because of their activity, and are normally found in very turbulent waters in the ocean. Since the mysterious deaths only affect the tangs, this would be my first guess. Skimmers help in aeration but you did say yours broke only a couple of days ago. Is there a glass lid on your top?

I don't have a way to measure that at this time. What kind of tool would I need? And no, I don't have glass lids on now. I did for a long time but recently took them off to get more light in the tank. Should I have them on?

 

[SushiGirl]

No, leave them off. You want plenty of oxygen exchange area on the water surface, such as a powerhead that disturbs the water's surface.

 

[sasharotty]

Its already been asked but can you post pics of your set up? Also how about all params? You use bioballs and a canister filter so giving some numbers would help alot. And you need to go fishless for 8 weeks unfortunately like it was said or the parasite will just keep hosting to newcomers.