CARBON usage, methods, advice.....

[tmz]

I run carbon 24/7. Abut 28 ozs on a 500g system which has leathers, lps and sps,half in a bag in the sump in rleatively low flow and half in a reactor (since there does not seem to be a consensus on low vs high flow and effectiveness).
I use lignite carbon from Bulk Reef Supply. I know the Rox is rated higher but is significantly more expensive.I change it every 21 days. I rinse with tap water and don't worry about a bit of dust.

The tips on metal strainer and mason jar are neat . Thanks fellas.

 

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

The things I found shocking with that article are:
(1) 3 tablespoons Carbon per 50 gallons
(2) 12 hours a week "active" use and then removing it

First thing right off the top of my head is the current TOTM uses "passive" carbon. He changes it once a month. No other info is in the article. Acroporanut replaces his every 3 weeks. Maybe according to these articles is you use "active" carbon you can get away with a few days or a week a month of use. I didn't see anything in the article say why you should use it briefly (12 hours) and start again in a week. Is there some data that says build-up occurs again in 7 days?

But if he did these tests and had those results with 3 tbls/gal are we using too much? THe people who sell the stuff are gonna tell us otherwise.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not believe that Richard has demonstrated that any particular amount of carbon is "necessary" in a reef tank.

 

[BigJay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12983047#post12983047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev

Based on this article by Richard Harker, I change it weekly. Randy, if you have any opinion on his thoughts, I'd really like to hear them.

http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm

Wow! Thanks for the article Marc. I learned something new today.

Apparently my carbon reactor flow rate is much too high. I'm going to slow down my reactor flow to a trickle tonight, my tank apparently only needs about 15-20 GPH or so for an optimal adsorption rate. I've been running as much flow as I can through the TLF reactor.

I cleaning out my carbon reactor every two weeks on "20% water change day", it seems to be a decent compromise between the "monthly" and the "weekly" crowds. To be honest, I'd hate to take the reactor out more than that, because there are usually dozens of little pods happily eating the algae film off of it. I use the bulkreefsupply lignite carbon.

Unfortunately, Thiel does not mention circulation rates through the carbon. As I mentioned in Part One, the typical pOver filter for carbon use moves water past the carbon at a much faster rate than research recommends. A popular canister filter for carbon use has a flow rate of 250 gallons per hour. Evidence suggests that adsorption rates decline when water moves past the carbon faster than 65 milliliters per minute, roughly one gallon per hour. Spotte recommends that no more than one tank volume be circulated through the carbon per day. Using Thiel’s 12-hour guideline combined with Spotte’s one tank volume suggestion, translates into a flow rate of about 4 gallons per hour for a 50-gallon tank. Clearly, using a pOver filter for carbon is not the best approach.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I do not agree that one can have the flow rate too high form an absorption perspective. That is often misunderstood by people. Yes, if the flow rate is high there will be less absorption from each portion of the water as it passes by, but more is passed through in a unit of time. This is not a single pass application, as might be the case where one concludes that lower flow is better.

Unless you are getting up to velocities so high that it actually strips organics off the carbon surface by physical erosion (which is really screaming!), my expectation is that higher flow is equal or better.

 

[melev]

Thanks for that Randy. When I read 1 gallon per hour, I scratched my head on that one. I've always had steady flow through my Phosban Reactor full of carbon, probably more like 50gph or so. It works, but the carbon isn't moving.

 

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

I thought Carbon was more sensitive to breaking up than Phosban and you had to use a slower rate in a reactor? Isn't it just supposed to bubble on the surface a bit?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think carbon is especially prone to breaking (although some types might be), but it is much less dense than GFO, so may need a lot less flow to fluidize it.

 

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

So nothing in that article changed anybody's minds on how much carbon to use (active or passive), and how long to run it? Most people are using a pretty good size bag/reactor full and running it 24/7?

 

[talon4x4]

What about running GFO and carbon in the same reactor?? Right now I'm running GFO in a reactor and carbon in a Magnum 350. I would like to get rid of the Magnum if possible and just run them together.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12995526#post12995526 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SCIFI_3D_zoo
So nothing in that article changed anybody's minds on how much carbon to use (active or passive), and how long to run it? Most people are using a pretty good size bag/reactor full and running it 24/7?

Before I'd read the article I'd linked, I was always told carbon is good for a month. If the article by Richard is accurate, carbon is used up far more quickly. Randy's comments don't seem to support it thus far, so while I tend to think it is only good for 3 days and why I change it weekly, that doesn't mean I'm right. I do know it works in my reef though.

I run it actively, and never recommend passive filtration. If you put anything in your sump for a duration, you'll notice a film build up on the material after a few days. That film is surely some type of obstacle that water would move around more easily than through it.

If you've ever tried to squeeze floss material in the baffles of your sump, it works for a day or two. However, it loads up and within a few days the water is passing right over the baffles because the floss has acted more like a dam. I feel the mesh bag does the same, blocking easy access. Using the Phosban Reactor assures that water will pass through the carbon until I change it out.

 

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12995675#post12995675 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by talon4x4
What about running GFO and carbon in the same reactor?? Right now I'm running GFO in a reactor and carbon in a Magnum 350. I would like to get rid of the Magnum if possible and just run them together.

I've read that this is a bad idea. One is softer than the other and could break up (carbon actually). So it has to have a diff. flow rate to bubble the surface. I wouldn't buy those products that try to mix diff. products either. BUT... one thing I am considering too... you can use both in the same reactor at diff. times. Some people do carbon between phos. cycles. BUT that would leave you with quarterly carbon runs. I think a Phosban run will last 3 months. A reactor is fairly cheap but I was more worried about room. It's getting to the point where I have to take a bunch of stuff apart just to get to one. And I never have skimmers, reactors, or anything else "outside" my sump. Just another risk you take.

 

[bertoni]

I run GAC and GFO together, but I do keep the flow down to prevent abrasion.

 

[gkyle]

I run them together, it helps a little to keep the GFO from caking up. My reactor is 26" high, and the flow is strong enough so that the fluidized carbon is 2/3 up the column - I'm guessing 200-300 gph. Anything less and the GFO won't fluidize.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So nothing in that article changed anybody's minds on how much carbon to use (active or passive), and how long to run it? Most people are using a pretty good size bag/reactor full and running it 24/7?

FWIW, that article is fairly old and many of use have known about it for years. It has been posted in this forum many times.

 

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Hey Randy... if you got time can you visit another thread of mine? It has some very interesting information and comments from people, and some startling revelations about my water chemistry. If you ain't got much time just skip to the last page.
SPS husbandry thread

 

[JBuffetReefer]

Out of curiosity, when you are using carbon in your tank, is it turning your skimmate black?

 

[tmz]

No it is not.

 

[trd47]

ok im interested in running carbon in my tank, but read on the label that it may cause ph swings? Do you just completely ignore this?

BTW what brand is everyone using?

 

[BigJay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13003300#post13003300 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JBuffetReefer
Out of curiosity, when you are using carbon in your tank, is it turning your skimmate black?

Not if you rinse it out really well first. Otherwise I imagine some of the black carbon dust would get into the tankwater and then get pulled out by the skimmer.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13004503#post13004503 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trd47
ok im interested in running carbon in my tank, but read on the label that it may cause ph swings? Do you just completely ignore this?

BTW what brand is everyone using?

The only PH swings I've experienced are the normal ones that happen when the lights go out. I've already said a few times that I use the bulkreefsupply stuff, because you can buy a large quantity of it for less money and it works well.