Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

The condylactis anemone moved an inch or two down the left end wall. It looks bigger, happier there. My original placement of it, by the barnacles, may have been too far from the light. I haven't decided on a better placement for it, so I think I'll leave it be for awhile. Maybe it will go right where it wants to be.

The atlantic blue tang comes tomorrow, I hope. They're going to call me when it comes in, so I can bring it home before they unbag it. That way it won't have the stress of acclimating twice in one day. I'm very excited and a little terrified! If all goes well, it'll keep the caulerpa cropped, so I don't have to. The pics I've seen of this fish are very impressive! Imagine a yellow tang, with vivid blue fin edges and rings around the eyes! Just having a fish that constantly swims around the tank is going to be a huge change!

There will be pics! It will be a new challenge photographing a fish that moves…
 
I've been thinking... Warning warning!

What you need is poo! Lots of it.

It's like you have a field and no cows to fertilize it. You need dem cows, man! The little hamsters running underground don't do much.

The poo is the start. Phosphates from fish food. Nitrates from poo and respiration. The tank is begging for natural organic poo.

My 7" hippo leaves a beautiful trail of sausage like poo and that's what your fields are waiting for. Get non-algae eaters like angels if you fear the munching.

Irish accent "Feed your lawn! Feed it!"
 
No.

I have no idea why you think something is wrong with my tank, and that you know how to fix it, with POO! On the contrary, my tank is doing very well. I have deliberately kept my fish load very low, while I learn how to best care for these plants. I get what you're saying, but I like my PL (poo level) just the way it is, thank you.

Keep in mind that what you are doing and what I am doing are at opposite ends of the spectrum (hi tech reef v low tech planted). I'm sorry, but I don't consider you an authority on the subject. I have spent many hours researching seagrasses. One of the surprising facts I learned is that seagrasses flourish in pristine, nutrient poor conditions, so they are able to outcompete algae. So poo, and lots of it, is not what I want. Don't worry, I have hundreds of tiny snails. They poop. Let me also repeat that I am not using a skimmer, and when I do water changes, I do not vacuum the substrate. So maybe, if you were to drop by and actually look at my tank, you may conclude my PL is adequate.

One of the tricky differences between our tanks and the sea, is that we do not have the luxury of allowing things like detritus and poo to accumulate to 'natural' levels. We just don't have the water volume capacity, so we have to keep things a little tidier. If I allowed my grasses (in my tiny plastic box) to accumulate all the stuff they do in nature, I'd have a real mess.

Sure, I'd like my seagrasses to grow faster (and my caulerpa to grow slower). I am still researching and experimenting. I am having success increasing growth rates. But it is a slow process and I'm being pretty cautious. It would have been easy to just buy more grasses, but I'm trying to better understand their needs. Unlike the reef side of the hobby, there is a dearth of information regarding keeping seagrasses in captivity.

From seven turtle grass plants I now have twenty-three. I have six new manatee grass plants in the last two weeks. I'm going to go ahead and be happy with that.
 
Thanks, and welcome, rick12!

I read your thread on going skimmer-less. I think for most marine aquariums, skimmers are a useful tool. There's no arguing they do remove some nasty gunk! I forget who said it, but I love this quote (I'm paraphrasing): "For those who doubt the efficacy of skimmers, I invite you to drink from my collection cup."

For tanks like mine, with massive plant growth and a growing number of filter feeders, they are unnecessary. A skimmer is really just a man made substitute for what Mother Nature would be happy to do for you. I am free from the noise, adjustments and cleaning, and I like it!
 
I generally agree that it is dangerous to add a bunch of fish to a saltwater planted system, especially if still fine tuning. I personally lost my two fish when I first started injecting CO2. This was because I was trying to make the CO2 dissolve as efficiently as possible, and my first ended up getting gas bubble disease. Since then I have gone fisheless.

Animals and plants need different conditions to survive. What is good for animals in an aquarium can be deadly for plants and vice versa. That being said, once a balance is established, it can be a beautiful thing to see fish amongst the seagrass. But seagrass is demanding, and that often means no fish (for now).

If you are trying to get macros to grow along side your seagrass, this is even difficult. Yes, seagrass do well in nature with low nutrients due to their ability to out compete algae in these situations, but in the aquarium, growth will be heavily accelerated by nutrient dosing.

I am very happy to say that the Seachem Flourish product is working wonders. I can dose the tank as much as I want but rarely have algae issues I raised my nitrate to 60 the other day. It was back to zero today. The seagrass is growing very fast; however, this is a relatively fast growing species to start with.

I am happy to read the you are having success with your manatee grass. I would guess that manatee grass would be more challenging than Halophilla sp., which is tolerant to many variables. Are you dosing iron?
 
Xeniaamore said:
I generally agree that it is dangerous to add a bunch of fish to a saltwater planted system, especially if still fine tuning. I personally lost my two fish when I first started injecting CO2. This was because I was trying to make the CO2 dissolve as efficiently as possible, and my first ended up getting gas bubble disease. Since then I have gone fisheless.

Animals and plants need different conditions to survive. What is good for animals in an aquarium can be deadly for plants and vice versa. That being said, once a balance is established, it can be a beautiful thing to see fish amongst the seagrass. But seagrass is demanding, and that often means no fish (for now).

If you are trying to get macros to grow along side your seagrass, this is even difficult. Yes, seagrass do well in nature with low nutrients due to their ability to out compete algae in these situations, but in the aquarium, growth will be heavily accelerated by nutrient dosing.

I am very happy to say that the Seachem Flourish product is working wonders. I can dose the tank as much as I want but rarely have algae issues I raised my nitrate to 60 the other day. It was back to zero today. The seagrass is growing very fast; however, this is a relatively fast growing species to start with.

I am happy to read the you are having success with your manatee grass. I would guess that manatee grass would be more challenging than Halophilla sp., which is tolerant to many variables. Are you dosing iron?
Click to expand...
You're dosing with seachem flourish? That's a first I've heard of that outside of freshwater. That's super cool.
 
Never said it wasn't doing well. Fish poo is plant food. You can have poo and pristine water, by the way. :)

You just need worms.

I admit that I'm no authority on planted tanks. But every project needs someone to inject chaos. It allows you to consider leaps that are non-incremental.

http://www.fivefacesofgenius.com

I love your tank, by the way. From back when it was plastic bottles and putty...
 
Thanks for stopping by, Xeniaamore. That's the plan, to keep the fish load low, while I tweak the dosing. I hoped to get a tang, to crop my caulerpa back, but it hasn't happened yet. I have been dosing potassium nitrate and iron, but I have backed off a bit while I experiment with substrate fertilizing. I am working with glutamic acid. I have been injecting CO2 throughout.

It just seems likely, given that these plants grow in pristine waters, but with massive buildup of detritus around their roots, that they'd favor root uptake. And since they favor ammonia over nitrate, I'm giving them ammonia. I'm pushing it about two inches into the sand. So far, no algae uptick. I'm trying to get nutrients to the grasses, rather than the macros. The caulerpa in particular seems to gobble up everything I dose the water column. I've noticed a slowing of their growth rate since I've been substrate dosing. I may not have to prune caulerpa this weekend!

You said you had less success substrate dosing. What did you use, plant tabs?

The manatee grass has been the most challenging. I have had a breakthrough with it (see previous page), with two plants splitting and forming new rhizomes and plants. I'm pretty sure this was due to substrate dosing, so I have hope.

I'm happy to hear you're having success with Flourish. I just checked it out online. It looks like a good source of minor and trace elements. I see chlorine, potassium and iron (and sulfur!) are the largest components. Are you adding a nitrogen source? I wonder if I'm lacking any trace elements that could be limiting growth. I've got some Sachem Equilibrium, from my freshwater planted tank days. It's more of a mineral balance, general hardness supplement. I doubt I need it, with coralline algae popping up around the tank. I'm running the CO2 through my canister filter, which has calcium carbonate in one chamber, acting as a mild calcium reactor.

I'd love to hear more from you!
 
So, for the first time, I'm seeing a lot of new blades of manatee grass! I counted sixteen young leaves.

I'm pretty sure it's due to the substrate dosing.

For the last few weeks I have reduced water column dosing (nitrate, iron) to the point I can see a reduction in caulerpa growth. At the start of this reduced water dosing, I started substrate dosing, but only near manatee grass plants. Since the manatee grasses are the only plants showing marked improvement, I conclude that manatee grass responds well to substrate dosing.

I have more things to test. I've been substrate dosing using two different things-regular plant tabs and glutamic acid pills. I'd like to find out if one works better than the other, and I want to test it on the turtle grass as well.

Still so much to learn!
 
I like karim's fish poo theory except for my own selfish reasons.


The more the fish poo = the more the fish!


Currently, this thread -
Is like watching grass grow...


Some of us are ready for some fish swimming action! Those caves need grammas and a tang with a school o' fish to herd.


Your conch needs things to look at.
Michael Hoaster said:
picture.php
Click to expand...


:)
 
I know, I want more fish too! Hopefully, my LFS can get me the tang I want. I'm watching a couple of online venders for the gramma harem. Some day…

Yeah, just watching grass grow. Not a lot here if you're not into seagrass. (Personally, I'm super stoked on my manatee grass breakthrough) It must be frustrating, coming here, only to find more news on seagrass. Now that I think about it, I have no idea why anyone comes by at all. I'm like the weird cousin, doing something odd with an aquarium, in the basement, and nobody cares… poor me! No need to console me. I like being that guy!

I'm pulled in two directions. It'd be nice to have more fish, which would make for more entertaining viewing. On the other hand, this is a very exciting time for me. I'm starting to get a feel for what I can do to for the seagrass, which is my primary focus. I need to be able to experiment without having to worry about killing fish.

So hang in there, patient visitors! Tomorrow I may be able to report another new blade of grass…
 
Michael Hoaster said:
I know, I want more fish too! Hopefully, my LFS can get me the tang I want. I'm watching a couple of online venders for the gramma harem. Some day"¦

Yeah, just watching grass grow. Not a lot here if you're not into seagrass. (Personally, I'm super stoked on my manatee grass breakthrough) It must be frustrating, coming here, only to find more news on seagrass. Now that I think about it, I have no idea why anyone comes by at all. I'm like the weird cousin, doing something odd with an aquarium, in the basement, and nobody cares"¦ poor me! No need to console me. I like being that guy!

I'm pulled in two directions. It'd be nice to have more fish, which would make for more entertaining viewing. On the other hand, this is a very exciting time for me. I'm starting to get a feel for what I can do to for the seagrass, which is my primary focus. I need to be able to experiment without having to worry about killing fish.

So hang in there, patient visitors! Tomorrow I may be able to report another new blade of grass"¦
Click to expand...

Aren't we all the weird cousins though? Us aquarists. Not many people in my family understand my aquarium obsession; which I don't really mind. I love my hobbies. I'm desperately waiting to see which one of your substrate additives are working for you, I for one were thinking of purchasing some root tabs and adding it to my seagrass bed and seeing if that prompts growth on their end.
 
I guess you could say we're all weirdos, if you like. I just thought of myself being a bit further out there, with this seagrass thing, and very few fish.

I never did ask you, what are you dosing? It would be great to hear your experience using plant tabs. But you may want to take it easy, so early in your tank's life. The ones I chose are pretty low in phosphate. I did this to discourage algae growth. They are not even aquarium-specific.

Anyway, welcome to the basement!
 
Michael Hoaster said:
I guess you could say we're all weirdos, if you like. I just thought of myself being a bit further out there, with this seagrass thing, and very few fish.

I never did ask you, what are you dosing? It would be great to hear your experience using plant tabs. But you may want to take it easy, so early in your tank's life. The ones I chose are pretty low in phosphate. I did this to discourage algae growth. They are not even aquarium-specific.

Anyway, welcome to the basement!
Click to expand...
I'm dosing Kents marine lugols solution which seems like iodine with a few others and iron with manganese. It's what someone else I was following last year used to dose with.


If I do anything with plant tabs I'll probably go seachem. I'll check it once my laptop is done resetting.
 
adding a bit of fish for color

:)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7qHgBf5D5wY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Still watching grass grow.

I've had a total of three manatee grass 'splits', where they fork off into new rhizomes and new plants. I know it doesn't sound like much, with plants like caulerpa growing much faster, but this is the holy grail for me. Finally seeing real progress with my pivotal species is very nice!

No pics for now, but maybe this weekend. With so many new blades, the meadow grows more lush.
 
Big caulerpa export today. I have been able to slow its growth, but it still accumulates.

I am very excited with new grass growth! I now count four manatee grasses splitting. Each plant turns into five plants, to start. That's a significant number of new blades popping up! They're still short, for now, less than a foot tall. But they are growing! Getting these plants to multiply has been my goal for a year now. I hope this is the start of some real progress!

I've been experimenting with dosing for the past few months. Water column dosing seemed to have only a small effect on the manatee grass. They grew taller, but did not multiply. Substrate fertilization appears to have triggered reproduction. I will continue to test and confirm. This method is easier for me. No more daily dosing the water. It also has the benefit of not feeding the wrong plants, like caulerpa. And the anemone is happier-it's not a fan of nitrate dosing.

So, things are good!
 
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