karimwassef
Active member
You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
or else you'd test for it.
or else you'd test for it.
Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank
- Thread starter Michael Hoaster
- Start date
A TEST? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' TEST! (as long as we're doing movie quotes)
Come on guys, it's cyanobacteria, not rocket science. It popped up shortly after I introduced the barnacle blennies, which I fed heavily at first to help them settle in. Hello! Phosphate anyone? Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!
Look, I'll make a deal with you. If something happens I can't understand, I'll test, mmkay? Everyone happy?
To review, I have drastically reduced feeding, seriously shortened the photoperiod, slightly increased the current, temporarily suspended carbon dosing, and merrily added nassarius snails to clean up uneaten food. Also, I have done weekly manual removal/water changes, mmkay?
I know from doing research, that once it takes hold, it takes quite a while to "leave the building", even after diligent work to remove it. Kinda like that last guy at the party that won't leave, so you can go to bed! It can sustain itself even with pristine water conditions. The top layer dies, decomposes and fertilizes the layer beneath. Under the definition for tanacious, it says "see cyanobacteria".
I read another post on RC, stating that the blackout method can/should be repeated monthly, to fully eradicate it. So I'll probably add that to the strategy. Of course there are chemical methods, but I want to avoid them.
Another thing I am considering is removing my tuxedo urchin. Why? The little guy has nearly wiped out all of the algae. Sounds like a good thing right? The problem is, he doesn't touch the cyano, drastically reducing the diversity of my algae, tilting the system in favor of cyano-not good. I was just reading in "Dynamic Aquaria" (great book!) that "It is essential not to allow a model system under development (young tank like mine) to be overgrazed. This would remove the critical energy supply and an important part of the water quality control system at a very sensitive time." So I'll just move him down to the quarantine tank for now, and bring him back for the the occasional 'temp work'. I need the 'regular algae' for the herbivorous fish I have planned.
If I was a biologist, I would focus on breeding the perfect cyano-consumer. I'd have hefty bags of cash! I did a search on "what eats cyanobacteria?" There were lots of claims, but no consensus. Trochus, turbo, queen conch, fighting conch, mexican hermit, mexican trochus, even black mollies! I have seen mine eat a little, but not near enough to make a dent! So it's back to work…
Cyanobacteria outbreaks are an extremely common phase in new tanks. In the big picture it's a good thing. It forces you to really look hard at your husbandry habits and improves your skills as an aquarist. I know I'll do just about anything to avoid going through this again!
Come on guys, it's cyanobacteria, not rocket science. It popped up shortly after I introduced the barnacle blennies, which I fed heavily at first to help them settle in. Hello! Phosphate anyone? Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!
Look, I'll make a deal with you. If something happens I can't understand, I'll test, mmkay? Everyone happy?
To review, I have drastically reduced feeding, seriously shortened the photoperiod, slightly increased the current, temporarily suspended carbon dosing, and merrily added nassarius snails to clean up uneaten food. Also, I have done weekly manual removal/water changes, mmkay?
I know from doing research, that once it takes hold, it takes quite a while to "leave the building", even after diligent work to remove it. Kinda like that last guy at the party that won't leave, so you can go to bed! It can sustain itself even with pristine water conditions. The top layer dies, decomposes and fertilizes the layer beneath. Under the definition for tanacious, it says "see cyanobacteria".
I read another post on RC, stating that the blackout method can/should be repeated monthly, to fully eradicate it. So I'll probably add that to the strategy. Of course there are chemical methods, but I want to avoid them.
Another thing I am considering is removing my tuxedo urchin. Why? The little guy has nearly wiped out all of the algae. Sounds like a good thing right? The problem is, he doesn't touch the cyano, drastically reducing the diversity of my algae, tilting the system in favor of cyano-not good. I was just reading in "Dynamic Aquaria" (great book!) that "It is essential not to allow a model system under development (young tank like mine) to be overgrazed. This would remove the critical energy supply and an important part of the water quality control system at a very sensitive time." So I'll just move him down to the quarantine tank for now, and bring him back for the the occasional 'temp work'. I need the 'regular algae' for the herbivorous fish I have planned.
If I was a biologist, I would focus on breeding the perfect cyano-consumer. I'd have hefty bags of cash! I did a search on "what eats cyanobacteria?" There were lots of claims, but no consensus. Trochus, turbo, queen conch, fighting conch, mexican hermit, mexican trochus, even black mollies! I have seen mine eat a little, but not near enough to make a dent! So it's back to work…
Cyanobacteria outbreaks are an extremely common phase in new tanks. In the big picture it's a good thing. It forces you to really look hard at your husbandry habits and improves your skills as an aquarist. I know I'll do just about anything to avoid going through this again!
Oh, I almost forgot! I received 3 turtle and 6 manatee grasses on friday, along with a 2 pound portion of live mud, from Florida Pets. After planting the grasses and adding the mud, I added a thin layer of sugar-sized calcium based sand on top.
The tanks kind of silty now, but once I get it cleaned up a bit I'll post pics.
It's not a lot more seagrass, but it does fill out the DSB a little more. I'm hoping that eventually the grasses will grow so thick as to shade the bottom, preventing algae growth on the sand. Someday I'll have a lush mini-meadow. THAT will be sweet!
The tanks kind of silty now, but once I get it cleaned up a bit I'll post pics.
It's not a lot more seagrass, but it does fill out the DSB a little more. I'm hoping that eventually the grasses will grow so thick as to shade the bottom, preventing algae growth on the sand. Someday I'll have a lush mini-meadow. THAT will be sweet!
Another cyano cleanup/water change today. TE-DE-US! It's hard to remove because it's stuck to the substrate, making it difficult to vacuum. Then it's one pinch at a time. I brushed a good bit off the back wall as well. Plus I removed the urchin. I'm trying to encourage 'regular algae' to come back and compete with the cyano. With the all the adjustments I've made, I feel confident 'the scourge' will end one of these days. I've just got to keep at it. Joy…
sam.basye
New member
Now what fun would it be to have a tank that required no maintenance?? 
that's what keeps you out of trouble because you're spending all your free time in the tank... except it probably has a negative affect with the wife. Lol
When are we gonna post pics of the new grasses? I'm expecting that lush forest one of these days!
Did you get any cool critters in the mud?
that's what keeps you out of trouble because you're spending all your free time in the tank... except it probably has a negative affect with the wife. LolWhen are we gonna post pics of the new grasses? I'm expecting that lush forest one of these days!
Did you get any cool critters in the mud?
I remember how easy the tank was before I added the blennies. Pretty low maintenance! It should be again, once I get out of cyano-purgatory! If I was a beginner, and didn't understand what was going on, I'd be pretty discouraged. But I've been in this predicament before, and I know it'll come around.
We'll see how it looks tomorrow in the light of day. It's not a lot more grass, but is is more. I didn't see any critters in the mud when I got it. I imagine there's some. It'll be interesting to see what pops up with this new addition of stuff. The more the merrier!
We'll see how it looks tomorrow in the light of day. It's not a lot more grass, but is is more. I didn't see any critters in the mud when I got it. I imagine there's some. It'll be interesting to see what pops up with this new addition of stuff. The more the merrier!
I doubt I'd notice more cyano! Ha!
Tanks fine. With the urchin gone, I'm getting more green algae, which I like a little bit better. Yay!
Cyano's still lingering, but may be lessening. It seems a little less virulent. I think I might skip the water change this weekend, and let it build up a little more. Then do another big removal/water change next weekend, and follow it up with another 3 - 4 day black out. I may be rounding the corner!
I've been lovingly removing cyano from the seagrass blades, to keep them from getting smothered. The new grasses are still too early to call, but I think they'll be okay. They neither grow nor die quickly, especially when so newly planted.
Since I've had some sponge development, I may try introducing one or two. Hopefully, these organisms are going to be an important part of my living filtration system. They will perform roughly the job of a protein skimmer, consuming excess bacteria and other tiny food in the water column.
Tanks fine. With the urchin gone, I'm getting more green algae, which I like a little bit better. Yay!
Cyano's still lingering, but may be lessening. It seems a little less virulent. I think I might skip the water change this weekend, and let it build up a little more. Then do another big removal/water change next weekend, and follow it up with another 3 - 4 day black out. I may be rounding the corner!
I've been lovingly removing cyano from the seagrass blades, to keep them from getting smothered. The new grasses are still too early to call, but I think they'll be okay. They neither grow nor die quickly, especially when so newly planted.
Since I've had some sponge development, I may try introducing one or two. Hopefully, these organisms are going to be an important part of my living filtration system. They will perform roughly the job of a protein skimmer, consuming excess bacteria and other tiny food in the water column.
Thought I'd post a Barnacle Blenny pic. This is the only one of four that actually chooses the barnacle shells to inhabit. The other three are in holes in the back wall. It'll be interesting to see if they get evicted by the Royal Grammas, when I get around to adding them. As you can see, the cyanobacteria is still hanging around, but I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel! Got a nice little red macro growing from the barnacles as well. And a piece of Ulva in the background.
These little guys are just amusing! They remind me of the fish characters on "SpongeBob".
These little guys are just amusing! They remind me of the fish characters on "SpongeBob".
Yes! Sam, you nailed it! Thanks, I needed that.
karimwassef
Active member
I think they look more like this
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8BC1EAC3-665F-488C-A86A-082E7028E6B2_zpsbmhcbsvi.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8BC1EAC3-665F-488C-A86A-082E7028E6B2_zpsbmhcbsvi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8BC1EAC3-665F-488C-A86A-082E7028E6B2_zpsbmhcbsvi.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/8BC1EAC3-665F-488C-A86A-082E7028E6B2_zpsbmhcbsvi.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/8BC1EAC3-665F-488C-A86A-082E7028E6B2_zpsbmhcbsvi.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 8BC1EAC3-665F-488C-A86A-082E7028E6B2_zpsbmhcbsvi.jpg"/></a>
Kinda similar to their 'threat pose', with their mouths agape. They look bizarre when they do that!
CYANOBACTERIA UPDATE
No water change last weekend, but I was unable to resist doing some manual removal, because I love doing it so much…
Anyhoo, yesterday I noticed a change. Much fewer new patches came back to replace what I'd removed. Also, I suddenly have filamentous green algae growing from the cyano-patches that remain. To me this indicates that the cyano is dying, and the filamentous algae is feeding on the nutrients released. It appears to me to be a form of succession.
So what's next?
First, I just want to observe what's happening. Second, I bring my oversized head into the game. What IS happening? Hmmm…THINK!
My initial impression is that all of my efforts are starting to pay off. I'll list them again, for any of you folks also going through 'the scourge': 4 day blackout, (frequent) manual removal, weekly water changes, reduced photoperiod, reduced feeding, increased water flow rate, suspended carbon dosing, and removal of the urchin.
Basically, I sped up (facilitated) a natural process, that might have occurred without my help. But I needed to expedite the process to prevent the seagrasses being smothered to death, while in this delicate phase of establishment.
I'll continue removing algae from the seagrasses, but not elsewhere. I'm hoping the filamentous stuff will consume the remaining nutrients that were bound up in the cyano. I have other ideas for 'next actions', but I want to OBSERVE and THINK a bit more first. My guiding principal is to work WITH Mother Nature and see where she leads me…
CYANOBACTERIA UPDATE
No water change last weekend, but I was unable to resist doing some manual removal, because I love doing it so much…
Anyhoo, yesterday I noticed a change. Much fewer new patches came back to replace what I'd removed. Also, I suddenly have filamentous green algae growing from the cyano-patches that remain. To me this indicates that the cyano is dying, and the filamentous algae is feeding on the nutrients released. It appears to me to be a form of succession.
So what's next?
First, I just want to observe what's happening. Second, I bring my oversized head into the game. What IS happening? Hmmm…THINK!
My initial impression is that all of my efforts are starting to pay off. I'll list them again, for any of you folks also going through 'the scourge': 4 day blackout, (frequent) manual removal, weekly water changes, reduced photoperiod, reduced feeding, increased water flow rate, suspended carbon dosing, and removal of the urchin.
Basically, I sped up (facilitated) a natural process, that might have occurred without my help. But I needed to expedite the process to prevent the seagrasses being smothered to death, while in this delicate phase of establishment.
I'll continue removing algae from the seagrasses, but not elsewhere. I'm hoping the filamentous stuff will consume the remaining nutrients that were bound up in the cyano. I have other ideas for 'next actions', but I want to OBSERVE and THINK a bit more first. My guiding principal is to work WITH Mother Nature and see where she leads me…
I know, right? But really it's one very evil for another not-so-evil, so Yay!
It has been hell, and I'm still down here, but I can see a little ray of hope now. I should go back a few pages on my thread to see how long I've been here, in hell. Seems like about two months.
Yes, I don't recommend visiting hell. It's hellish. I hope my struggles, here in hell, have inspired you all to avoid hell at all costs. The best cure is to never get it in the first place. Otherwise, they'll be hell to pay.
It has been hell, and I'm still down here, but I can see a little ray of hope now. I should go back a few pages on my thread to see how long I've been here, in hell. Seems like about two months.
Yes, I don't recommend visiting hell. It's hellish. I hope my struggles, here in hell, have inspired you all to avoid hell at all costs. The best cure is to never get it in the first place. Otherwise, they'll be hell to pay.
Well, well, well! Look who decided to join us! Speaking french, no less! Welcome, JLynn!
So, if I have my french straight, you're asking why I think filamentous algae (FA) is better than cyanobacteria (CB), right?
First off, FA is less ugly, and IMO, CB just looks amateurish. Secondly (and most importantly), I don't see FA as another 'scourge', as much as a new phase in the maturation process of my tank. I fully expect it to recede, as a result of the actions taken (and will be taken). The resulting conditions will provide a low-nutrient environment, where the seagrasses outcompete algae.
So, I see it as a positive change, however so slight, on the road from hell to heaven.
So, if I have my french straight, you're asking why I think filamentous algae (FA) is better than cyanobacteria (CB), right?
First off, FA is less ugly, and IMO, CB just looks amateurish. Secondly (and most importantly), I don't see FA as another 'scourge', as much as a new phase in the maturation process of my tank. I fully expect it to recede, as a result of the actions taken (and will be taken). The resulting conditions will provide a low-nutrient environment, where the seagrasses outcompete algae.
So, I see it as a positive change, however so slight, on the road from hell to heaven.
"The resulting conditions will provide a low-nutrient environment, where the seagrasses outcompete algae." - OK, so now I'm quoting myself. I thought it would be helpful to clarify.
Seagrasses flourish only in pristine water conditions, where they outcompete algae, by being able to survive on lower (water column) nutrient levels than required by algae, and by using their true roots to access substrate-bound nutrients.
I just wanted to point out that this little tidbit was unbeknownst to me when I started this seagrass tank project. Whoops!
I happily assumed that seagrasses were fast-growing, high nutrient sponges. I thought they'd be 'easy', like the very similar looking Vallisneria plants I had ridiculously good results with, in my fresh water planted tank. Wrong!
The more I researched, the more I realized what a challenge seagrass keeping would be. So, here I am, in a real battle. What I thought would be easier than reef keeping, turned out to be about the same level of difficulty, or more, given the disparity of available information.
I'm not complaining, as much as just explaining just how little I knew going into this. I realize I may come off as a bit of a know-it-all sometimes, but I want you all to know how utterly humbled I've been by this experience. And I'm very thankful for the education I've received.
Seagrasses flourish only in pristine water conditions, where they outcompete algae, by being able to survive on lower (water column) nutrient levels than required by algae, and by using their true roots to access substrate-bound nutrients.
I just wanted to point out that this little tidbit was unbeknownst to me when I started this seagrass tank project. Whoops!
I happily assumed that seagrasses were fast-growing, high nutrient sponges. I thought they'd be 'easy', like the very similar looking Vallisneria plants I had ridiculously good results with, in my fresh water planted tank. Wrong!
The more I researched, the more I realized what a challenge seagrass keeping would be. So, here I am, in a real battle. What I thought would be easier than reef keeping, turned out to be about the same level of difficulty, or more, given the disparity of available information.
I'm not complaining, as much as just explaining just how little I knew going into this. I realize I may come off as a bit of a know-it-all sometimes, but I want you all to know how utterly humbled I've been by this experience. And I'm very thankful for the education I've received.
karimwassef
Active member
You could start with a GHA tank like I had... They're beautiful with the right flow...
Yes, Karim, I remember your long, flowing green locks! Hows your tank doing these days?
