rucnnefish
New member
Will the gramma's eat this??
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-92625-82059K-fish.jpg
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-92625-82059K-fish.jpg
Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank
- Thread starter Michael Hoaster
- Start date
Good question! Thanks for bringing that to my attention, rucnnefish. It couldn't hurt to combine medicated food with hypo salinity.
That Macro Mindset
That Macro Mindset
I have been pontificating on other people's threads. I should really confine my ramblings to my own.
So, a lot of us around here have been in the hobby for a while. We've learned the rules, and we all aspire to have beautiful aquariums. Maintaining low nutrient levels has always been the struggle, fighting to keep algae at bay.
Macro algae tanks are radically different. Instead of fighting algae, you are encouraging it to grow, beautifully. In order to maintain these beautiful plants, you have to feed them. They will deplete the nutrient limited water column of an aquarium. Instead of trying to keep nutrients undetectable, we try to maintain enough, major and minor nutrients to keep our plants happy. THIS is the switcharoo from the Reef Mindset. Instead of starving your aquarium, you're trying to fatten it up!
The Macro Mindset takes some time. It's quite an adjustment. I'm still working on it myself.
How do we provide for these plants? Start with finding out the C-N-P ratio for the plant you are considering. Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphorus are plants' major nutrients. Fish food itself can provide all of them, but unfortunately, not in the ratio aligned to plant's needs. But there are characters at the bottom of the food chain who'd be happy to help. I think the average C-N-P ratio for macros is something like 300-30-1. How do we maintain these levels? There are several ways to do it.
Here's what I do: I add CO2 by running it through my canister filter. CO2 is plants' preferred form of Carbon. It's the big one. For Nitrogen, I'm dosing potassium nitrate, which is sold as stump remover. Plants and bacteria compete for nitrogen. That's a lot of mouths to feed. Phosphate, is taken care of by fish food. It's so easy. Also consider the minor nutrients, which can be easily depleted. Iron can often be limited in planted tanks. Occasional water changes and/or dosing minor nutrients helps-especially iron.
Another way to reach the ideal ratio would be to reduce phosphate and nitrate, in relation to carbon. The downside of reduction is that you have fewer nutrients to work with, which will limit plant biomass. Less food, smaller plant. It works well for a reef tank!
Well that about does it! From time to time I like to get on my soapbox and ramble a bit. I hope it is helpful to someone.
That Macro Mindset
I have been pontificating on other people's threads. I should really confine my ramblings to my own.
So, a lot of us around here have been in the hobby for a while. We've learned the rules, and we all aspire to have beautiful aquariums. Maintaining low nutrient levels has always been the struggle, fighting to keep algae at bay.
Macro algae tanks are radically different. Instead of fighting algae, you are encouraging it to grow, beautifully. In order to maintain these beautiful plants, you have to feed them. They will deplete the nutrient limited water column of an aquarium. Instead of trying to keep nutrients undetectable, we try to maintain enough, major and minor nutrients to keep our plants happy. THIS is the switcharoo from the Reef Mindset. Instead of starving your aquarium, you're trying to fatten it up!
The Macro Mindset takes some time. It's quite an adjustment. I'm still working on it myself.
How do we provide for these plants? Start with finding out the C-N-P ratio for the plant you are considering. Carbon-Nitrogen-Phosphorus are plants' major nutrients. Fish food itself can provide all of them, but unfortunately, not in the ratio aligned to plant's needs. But there are characters at the bottom of the food chain who'd be happy to help. I think the average C-N-P ratio for macros is something like 300-30-1. How do we maintain these levels? There are several ways to do it.
Here's what I do: I add CO2 by running it through my canister filter. CO2 is plants' preferred form of Carbon. It's the big one. For Nitrogen, I'm dosing potassium nitrate, which is sold as stump remover. Plants and bacteria compete for nitrogen. That's a lot of mouths to feed. Phosphate, is taken care of by fish food. It's so easy. Also consider the minor nutrients, which can be easily depleted. Iron can often be limited in planted tanks. Occasional water changes and/or dosing minor nutrients helps-especially iron.
Another way to reach the ideal ratio would be to reduce phosphate and nitrate, in relation to carbon. The downside of reduction is that you have fewer nutrients to work with, which will limit plant biomass. Less food, smaller plant. It works well for a reef tank!
Well that about does it! From time to time I like to get on my soapbox and ramble a bit. I hope it is helpful to someone.
Thanks Chasmodes! I hope to see your oyster reef come alive some day. Your local, Maryland biotope idea is unique, and I think it will turn out to be beautiful!
I hope the info is useful. Seeing people spend good money on new lighting in attempts to save their macros is a little frustrating. Most of the time, when macros crash, it's not because the lighting is the wrong color temperature, it's because they are starved of a particular nutrient. And there's really only a few to keep up with, so it's pretty simple.
My number one recommendation to the vast majority of macro keepers is this: buy a simple CO2 regulator for less than a hundred bucks. Remember the C-N-P ratio: 300-30-1. Carbon is the big one-300! Most macro keepers do absolutely nothing to supply carbon, other than adding fish food. The most important nutrient to these plants is completely ignored! You cannot expect success if you ignore the most important ingredient.
Nitrogen is the second most important nutrient for plants. As an aquarium matures, the resident bacteria becomes very efficient at consuming nitrogen, in the form of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. This is great for the fish, but not for the plants. In mature tanks, bacteria outcompete plants for nitrogen. So you need to dose it. Plants' preferred form of nitrogen is ammonia, but ammonia is rather poisonous and dangerous. So, a safer-for-aquariums form of nitrogen is needed. As we all know from our lessons on cycling, nitrite is also harmful to fish, etcetera, so that leaves us with good old nitrate-harmless to fish, and food for plants. Potassium nitrate is readily available at hardware stores.
If you have fish, and you feed them, you are already suppling enough phosphate, so nothing is required. If you have no fish, you will need to dose phosphate. The easiest way to do that is to simply add fish food to the tank. You'll have enough phosphate for the plants, and you'll be feeding the bottom of the food chain as well.
The only thing left, is trace elements. Some are added with fish food. Some are replenished with water changes. Buy a simple trace elements supplement in a bottle.
And that's it. Simple.
I hope the info is useful. Seeing people spend good money on new lighting in attempts to save their macros is a little frustrating. Most of the time, when macros crash, it's not because the lighting is the wrong color temperature, it's because they are starved of a particular nutrient. And there's really only a few to keep up with, so it's pretty simple.
My number one recommendation to the vast majority of macro keepers is this: buy a simple CO2 regulator for less than a hundred bucks. Remember the C-N-P ratio: 300-30-1. Carbon is the big one-300! Most macro keepers do absolutely nothing to supply carbon, other than adding fish food. The most important nutrient to these plants is completely ignored! You cannot expect success if you ignore the most important ingredient.
Nitrogen is the second most important nutrient for plants. As an aquarium matures, the resident bacteria becomes very efficient at consuming nitrogen, in the form of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. This is great for the fish, but not for the plants. In mature tanks, bacteria outcompete plants for nitrogen. So you need to dose it. Plants' preferred form of nitrogen is ammonia, but ammonia is rather poisonous and dangerous. So, a safer-for-aquariums form of nitrogen is needed. As we all know from our lessons on cycling, nitrite is also harmful to fish, etcetera, so that leaves us with good old nitrate-harmless to fish, and food for plants. Potassium nitrate is readily available at hardware stores.
If you have fish, and you feed them, you are already suppling enough phosphate, so nothing is required. If you have no fish, you will need to dose phosphate. The easiest way to do that is to simply add fish food to the tank. You'll have enough phosphate for the plants, and you'll be feeding the bottom of the food chain as well.
The only thing left, is trace elements. Some are added with fish food. Some are replenished with water changes. Buy a simple trace elements supplement in a bottle.
And that's it. Simple.
McPuff
New member
As for CO2 regulators, I'll plug the CO2art regulator. I read all sorts of terrific reviews so I decided to give it a shot. It's quite an amazing piece of equipment, especially for the price. I should receive endorsements for such high praise. Anyway, it seems to be a relatively unknown brand and I'm sure it'll get much more popularity once it arrives in the US (currently just UK but they ship here obviously). Anyway, just wanted to throw it out there... also have some words in my own thread. Don't mean to hijack!
Thanks wilder! I hope it is helpful.
Good to hear from you too, McPuff! So, you're happy with your new CO2 regulator? Can you ballpark the price? Hijack anytime! I welcome the discussion.
I bought mine for a calcium reactor as well, when my tank was a reef. Then, when I switched to fresh water planted, I ran the CO2 into my canister filter, just for the plants. It made a huge difference, with new growth daily. Now, with the salt water planted tank, CO2 is still very important.
I was inspired by Samala's thread in the Old Helpful Posts Sticky, "CO2 Magic!", at: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=778087. She talked about her jump in growth rates, adding CO2 to here seagrass tank. She went the cheap route, and did a yeast, coke bottle setup. This is maybe a good way test the waters with CO2, for folks that want a less expensive entry fee. Then after seeing the benefits, the cost of a regulator setup could be justified.
Good to hear from you too, McPuff! So, you're happy with your new CO2 regulator? Can you ballpark the price? Hijack anytime! I welcome the discussion.
I bought mine for a calcium reactor as well, when my tank was a reef. Then, when I switched to fresh water planted, I ran the CO2 into my canister filter, just for the plants. It made a huge difference, with new growth daily. Now, with the salt water planted tank, CO2 is still very important.
I was inspired by Samala's thread in the Old Helpful Posts Sticky, "CO2 Magic!", at: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=778087. She talked about her jump in growth rates, adding CO2 to here seagrass tank. She went the cheap route, and did a yeast, coke bottle setup. This is maybe a good way test the waters with CO2, for folks that want a less expensive entry fee. Then after seeing the benefits, the cost of a regulator setup could be justified.
I've not heard of that. It would certainly not be a bad thing, for planted tanks. Regardless of CO2 amounts in make up water, it will get used up by plants, so supplementing would still be needed, I think.
Ok, so I finally got up the gumption to start hypo salinity in my display.
I replaced the water in my QT with tank water, and moved all ten pounds of live rock in. I moved all the snails I could find, and sponges and a few macro frags. I topped the display with fresh water. Salinity went from 25ppt to 21 ppt, so I'm not down to hypo levels yet, but I wanted to give the tank a little time to adjust. I'll give it a few days to a week before I get it down to 12ppt, or 1.009 SG.
Kinda scary! This is definitely one of those grand experiments that could lead to disaster. One thing that gives me hope is, when I was emptying the QT, I caught several pods in there. The QT has been hypo for a couple of months now, so I'll take that as a good sign.
I have thought about best and worst case scenarios. If everything dies that would be a bummer, but it would give me a chance to do some of the re-dos I talked about recently. I don't expect it to happen, but who knows. Most important is eradicating ICH.
Wish me luck!
I replaced the water in my QT with tank water, and moved all ten pounds of live rock in. I moved all the snails I could find, and sponges and a few macro frags. I topped the display with fresh water. Salinity went from 25ppt to 21 ppt, so I'm not down to hypo levels yet, but I wanted to give the tank a little time to adjust. I'll give it a few days to a week before I get it down to 12ppt, or 1.009 SG.
Kinda scary! This is definitely one of those grand experiments that could lead to disaster. One thing that gives me hope is, when I was emptying the QT, I caught several pods in there. The QT has been hypo for a couple of months now, so I'll take that as a good sign.
I have thought about best and worst case scenarios. If everything dies that would be a bummer, but it would give me a chance to do some of the re-dos I talked about recently. I don't expect it to happen, but who knows. Most important is eradicating ICH.
Wish me luck!
Ron Reefman
Active member
Good luck Michael, I hope it all works out well for you. I'm just getting done doing some home improvements and my next job will be redoing the rockscape in both my DT and display refugium.
Thanks Ron.
Well, the next day and everything looks good so far. I see a lot of snails I missed. I may go ahead and do another freshwater water change, getting closer, but not all the way to hypo level. Three steps is good I think.
Well, the next day and everything looks good so far. I see a lot of snails I missed. I may go ahead and do another freshwater water change, getting closer, but not all the way to hypo level. Three steps is good I think.
Thanks Chasmodes and Zachxlutz.
My hunch is that the ich came in on the Lookdowns. They were pretty beat up. I didn't think of them as a likely ich magnet, but here I am.
I'll keep the quarantine tank ready to receive from here on out, so I can properly qt new fish. For now I've got to eradicate the ich, keep the grammas fat and happy, and see how my plants respond to hypo salinity.
My hunch is that the ich came in on the Lookdowns. They were pretty beat up. I didn't think of them as a likely ich magnet, but here I am.
I'll keep the quarantine tank ready to receive from here on out, so I can properly qt new fish. For now I've got to eradicate the ich, keep the grammas fat and happy, and see how my plants respond to hypo salinity.
I waited until today to do another freshwater change. I decided to give it 48, rather 24 hours. The next one, on wednesday, should get me down to hypo salinity. Everything still looks fine, so far.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Michael, I've pulled macro algae from my tanks and given them long freshwater showers in the kitchen sink while I pull unwanted nuisance algae off the macro algae and it's always done very well after that. But that's quite different than days in hypo salinity. So I'll be interested to see how they do. Thanks for keeping us abreast of your efforts.
I checked salinity this morning. I'm at 21ppt, or 1.015 sg. I plan to get it down to 1.009 on wednesday.
The caulerpa racemosa looks a little off. It looks lighter, like it may go sexual. I pruned a bit on the back wall, so it's hard to tell, but it almost looks like it's thinning out a little.
The thought of losing the caulerpa is intriguing. On one hand it's been an excellent export medium, on the other, it's been a pain to keep up with pruning. If I lost it, would I need to replace it with another fast grower? Or would that allow the grasses and other macros to step up? I think the latter. I always felt like the caulerpa was sucking up everything I dosed, before the grasses could get any.
Wouldn't it be great if hypo salinity cured my ich AND rid me of some unwanted stuff? I know, I'm getting greedy…
The caulerpa racemosa looks a little off. It looks lighter, like it may go sexual. I pruned a bit on the back wall, so it's hard to tell, but it almost looks like it's thinning out a little.
The thought of losing the caulerpa is intriguing. On one hand it's been an excellent export medium, on the other, it's been a pain to keep up with pruning. If I lost it, would I need to replace it with another fast grower? Or would that allow the grasses and other macros to step up? I think the latter. I always felt like the caulerpa was sucking up everything I dosed, before the grasses could get any.
Wouldn't it be great if hypo salinity cured my ich AND rid me of some unwanted stuff? I know, I'm getting greedy…
