Changing current Durso to a Herbie in basement sump

[greenstarfish00]

Im switching my current tank out today to a new tank. The exsisting tank is plumbed for a durso overflow with a 1.5 drain and a 1.5 return through the wall to my basement. Im running a reeflow barracuda return with about 14 feet of headloss. The return works good now on my 120 cube.

New tank is 100g rimless predrilled for Herbie overflow and 3 1 inch bulkheads. 1 for the return and 2 drains. I want to keep as much of my current plumbing as possible bc its a pia to get pipes through the wall but im pretty sure i need to pull the current drain out and replace it with two 1 inch or maybe 1.25 inch darins. One standard and one emergency. I need to know what other things i need to consider or change when going to a herbie. I understand the basic priciple but im looking for any thing thsmat may cause issues since i have to make a quick switch from the old tank to the new tank.


I hope these images work. This is my exsisting plumbing. Everything under the tank will be switches and i hope to keep the basement return. What else needs ro be changed to switch to a good herbie.

 

[greenstarfish00]

 

[greenstarfish00]

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[greenstarfish00]

I have holes drilled in the floor already and i dont want to drill more. I think if i pull the current return 1.5 i will be ablento get at least two 1 inch drains and maybe 2 1.25 inch pipes aling side the current 1.5 inch return. I have a little extra room in the hole now but not much. There are some 90 degree turns in the current drains and they work fine with the durso do I need ro make those 45 in the herbie and what about the horizontal run at the bottom to get to the sump?

Thanks

 

[greenstarfish00]

Bump....

 

[greenstarfish00]

Any thoughts?

 

[Lsufan]

I see no need in pulling the 1.5” pipe. I would leave it as is & use a reducing bushing at the bulkhead. I would also consider using a beananimal drain being the tank has three holes & run the return over the back of the tank. Use the three existing pipes for the drains & u would only have to add one more 1” or 1.5” pipe for the return.

U do want as few 90’s as possible & want to use 45’s to get over to where it needs to be. Some people get confused by that & they actually put 2 45’s back to back & make a 90, which is basically the same thing as having a 90. What u do is put a 45 then run the pipe on a 45 degree angle until it gets to where it needs to be, then use another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u are basically using 2 45’s instead of 2 90’s. That is how u have it setup now to get into the sump so u must have the idea.

Having 90’s in the piping can make it harder on the syphon to purge its air. So if u have to use them u want to make sure u aren’t doing much else in the system that also makes it harder to purge the air. If u use the existing 1.5” plumbing that will also make it a little harder to purge the air. So u will want to use as few of 90’s as possible so u don’t have issues.

I would choose to run a beananimal if at all possible. I wouldn’t set up a tank without it, but if u really want to stick to a herbie I would still leave the pipes u have now & use them. Eighther way u will want to place the valve in the basement close to the sump. It makes it a little difficult to tune in because u can’t see the tank when u adjust the valve, but it will function way better with the valve close to the sump. That is another advantage of a beananimal drain, once u get it dialed in u don’t have to mess with the valve much at all. I havnt touched the valve on eighther of by setups with bean drains in over 2 years. With a herbie u will more then likely have to adjust the valve a little more often keep it quiet.

 

[greenstarfish00]

Thanks [MENTION=306586]Lsufan[/MENTION]. I usualy get a response pretty quick on here so i thought i had asked a stupid question.
Im pretty experienced this tank has been up for 8 years and my old one probably 8 before that but i havent touched my durso in 8 years and have never done a bean so i think Im just a little nervous since the fish and corals will all be in coolers the entire time. I see the advantages of the beananimal but im staying with the herbie at this point. I bought a new rimless tank and its in my main dinning area. One of my wives main criteria is that all of the plumbing etc. Is internal and totaly hidden. She puts up with everything else related to my tanks so im not bailing on her now. I think the herbie is a good system the animal may just be a little better if you are willing to hang the return over the back.

 

[greenstarfish00]

[MENTION=306586]Lsufan[/MENTION] i was hoping i woulndt have to cut a bigger hile in the floor to get the extra drain pipes bc there is a lip in the basement that make it hard to get to but i guess i should just suck it up and cut a bigger hole. If im going to do that then i guess i can keep the 1.5 drain i have and add a second 1.25 or 1 inch drain. If i do that i have a coiple of questions.
1. My exsisting drain has 4 90 degree angles in it now. Will that be ok and if so should i use the old 1.5 inch line as the emergency or main drain. I lean towards emergency bc of the 90s.
2. The new drain line i run should i use 1 inch or 1.25 inch pvc? I would have to convert the 1.25 down to the 1 inch bulkhead but i woukd need a smaller hole fir rhe 1 inch pipe. Is there any advantage to using the 1.25 inch pipe. I have both 1 and 1.25 inch pipe in the garage now.

Thanks again.

 

[Lsufan]

I thought u already had 3 pipes entering the basement but u only have 2. So I was thinking if u went with a herbie u wouldn’t have to run any more pipes to the basement, which is why I referred to leaving them. So if it is easier to pull the drain u have now & run it new then that would work & u can just use 1” pipe for the drains.

If u leave the drain u have now then I would use the existing 1.5” line for the emergency & run the new line for the syphon. I don’t see a advantage of using the 1.25” over the 1”. So use whatever is the most convenient. Use as few 90’s as possible & place the valve in the basement close to the sump.

 

[greenstarfish00]

Thanks [MENTION=306586]Lsufan[/MENTION]. I mostly finished this last night. The new tank is in place, the water is flowing and some rocks and corals are back in palce. I basicaly did as you sugested. I kept the exsisting 1.5 as the emergency and ran a new 1" tube. I used spa flex for the first 6 feet then managed to get away w/ one 45 and a staright pipe that drops into the sump. The spa flex made it allot easier to deal with. The one thing I didn't do is place a valve in the basement. I have one just below the bulkhead on the main drain which seemed to work for adjusting the flow. I can add a valve in the basement pretty easy. What would be the main advantage of a valve in the basement?

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Lsufan]

With the valve up high with a basement sump it can cause cavitation in the line by having a restriction up high or midway in the line. That can cause bubbles & noise if it becomes a issue.

It can also make it harder to purge the air out of the pipe. Which makes it hard on the syphon to get going. There may be a chance of other issues with the valve up high but that is the only two I can think of. We don’t have basements down here so I have never had a basement sump.