I've been using a brine net to net about a dozen every night. When I see them start to swim around I'll just wave the net around quickly for about a minute or so at a time. If I get the net close to the rocks when I do this it seems to stir up more...my record for bugs in the net at once is now 8. I removed 20 last night, that's about 75 or so total so far.....there are hundreds of these in my 90 gallon I am sure. The bigger ones are smarter, they don't swim in open water long but stay very near the glass and I haven’t been able to get them.
Cirolanid Isopods!?
- Thread starter markush
- Start date
Untamed12
New member
I put a quick trap together using ciranolid hunter's instructions. I made a small version from a 300ml water bottle.
To make a long story short...It took about 1/2 hour before I saw a large one get trapped...waited for a while to see if I could get another one....gave up...pulled up the trap in order to get the one out....
...and discovered that I had trapped about 25. Most were exceptionally small (less than 1mm). So small that I was unable to see them being trapped.
So the trap is in the tank overnight now and we'll see what we get in the morning.
Tomorrow, I use 3 or more traps.
To make a long story short...It took about 1/2 hour before I saw a large one get trapped...waited for a while to see if I could get another one....gave up...pulled up the trap in order to get the one out....
...and discovered that I had trapped about 25. Most were exceptionally small (less than 1mm). So small that I was unable to see them being trapped.
So the trap is in the tank overnight now and we'll see what we get in the morning.
Tomorrow, I use 3 or more traps.
You are not the first and you are not going to be the last person to get these in their tanks due to TBS. Back a few years when they first started popping up, they were the source. Now about 3 or 4 years later they are still a source of them. This is why I NEVER recommend anyone purchase their LR.
The fact that the have no acknowledged the problem (infestation) of their rock is amazing, but I suppose the little blurb on the website about 'occasional pests' etc covers their butts.
Good luck to you... I would recommend you make your tank fallow for 6 months. One guy originally had some success with a type of hog fish if I remember correctly (but don't quote me on that).
The fact that the have no acknowledged the problem (infestation) of their rock is amazing, but I suppose the little blurb on the website about 'occasional pests' etc covers their butts.
Good luck to you... I would recommend you make your tank fallow for 6 months. One guy originally had some success with a type of hog fish if I remember correctly (but don't quote me on that).
Sure is...... and there is nothing they an do about it except list it as one of the COMMON hitchhikers they see. They should also NOT tell people its not a problem like they did to this guy either.
See their problem is this... they have a history of supplying LR that is contaminated with these things. VERY few other sources have popped up for this bug (at least on RC). So if they warn folks, or refund they will end up out of business so they play it off and hope it goes away or that more people will not hear of it and buy their products than will hear of it and avoid them.
Its unrealistic to take this position, but I will.... If any supplier routinely has these in their systems, holding tanks or supply rock, they should move to a different area or stop selling. It is unethical to KNOWINGLY supply something that will destroy someones tank completely. I compare this to RIO and their history of Pumps burning up. They should have pulled all of them off the shelves and instituted quality assurance procedures to avoid it. TB should do the same, or at least do something that will give the unknowing hobbyist some measure of protection.
What can they do??? They can hold their Rock in QT for as many months as it takes until these things die off for lack of fish to suck the life out of. Once they get a rolling stock in place, they will have no supply problems. If they were ethical and responsible business folks, they would attempt to do something like that.
If this is as rare an occurance as they lead people to believe, then they should at least refund the cost of the rock and offer people some help with any damage that occurs because of these things. I need not remind you that they are also hazardous to humans as many people who have had them have reported being bitten.
Acknowledgment would be nice. I followed the TBS vendor forum for 2 months before ordering and never knew these things existed. Once I had the first part in my tank I noticed these and asked questions both of you guys and of Richard. Richard assured me after i sent him my photos that "it is not the bad one".
I think this dialog here is good...at least it brings awareness to this problem. I wish I had seen a post like this a month ago.
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<<< See their problem is this... they have a history of supplying LR that is contaminated with these things. VERY few other sources have popped up for this bug (at least on RC). So if they warn folks, or refund they will end up out of business so they play it off and hope it goes away or that more people will not hear of it and buy their products than will hear of it and avoid them. >>>
<<< This is why I NEVER recommend anyone purchase their LR.
>>>
Your knowledge and credibility index just dropped to ZERO.
1) And why is it that what they call "live rock" from Figi, SI, Tonga, etc, etc. not have issues with hitchhikers good or bad?....it's because it's not really live rock at all, it's dried out mostly dead rock with some remaining coralline and dried out dead plant mush that remains after several long plane trips wrapped in wet newspaper and sitting in various airport warehouses anf then finally shipped to a distributor and finally a retailer and finally to the end user. And why does this type of rock have to go through weeks of "curing" and smell like a sewer?....because it's 98% DEAD rock.
2) TBS or other Florida aquacultured rock isn't 'contaminated' with anything, it's loaded with life just as it comes out of the ocean. NEWSFLASH: Yes, there are crabs and mantis shrimps and isopods in the oceans, and various creatures good and bad seem to be found in abundance at some times of the year and then not at all at other times (see the octopus breeding season thread). When you buy overseas rock however it's not an issue because nearly nothing but bacteria can survive in a sealed styro box for days or weeks on end wrapped in wet newspapers sitting in airport warehouses.
3) Thousands of people have been buying Florida aquacultured rock for many years and anyone who's done even an ounce of research knows you can expect to receive anything and everything from corals to small fish to an octopus and even a bad isopod. In fact, most direct dealers in this type of rock literally can not get enough of it at times and after all these years, so I seriously doubt TBS or anyone else is going out of business over isopods or anything else people may find on the rock.
4) I've been keeping hundreds of pounds Florida rock on and off for nearly 20 yrs. and have seen exactly 4 or 5 bad isopods which I promptly netted out, and also didn't feel the need to publicly bash a well liked, highly ethical, and respected dealer with a bunch of bloody nonsense, outright BS, and borderline actionable public statements.
<<< This is why I NEVER recommend anyone purchase their LR.
>>>
Your knowledge and credibility index just dropped to ZERO.
1) And why is it that what they call "live rock" from Figi, SI, Tonga, etc, etc. not have issues with hitchhikers good or bad?....it's because it's not really live rock at all, it's dried out mostly dead rock with some remaining coralline and dried out dead plant mush that remains after several long plane trips wrapped in wet newspaper and sitting in various airport warehouses anf then finally shipped to a distributor and finally a retailer and finally to the end user. And why does this type of rock have to go through weeks of "curing" and smell like a sewer?....because it's 98% DEAD rock.
2) TBS or other Florida aquacultured rock isn't 'contaminated' with anything, it's loaded with life just as it comes out of the ocean. NEWSFLASH: Yes, there are crabs and mantis shrimps and isopods in the oceans, and various creatures good and bad seem to be found in abundance at some times of the year and then not at all at other times (see the octopus breeding season thread). When you buy overseas rock however it's not an issue because nearly nothing but bacteria can survive in a sealed styro box for days or weeks on end wrapped in wet newspapers sitting in airport warehouses.
3) Thousands of people have been buying Florida aquacultured rock for many years and anyone who's done even an ounce of research knows you can expect to receive anything and everything from corals to small fish to an octopus and even a bad isopod. In fact, most direct dealers in this type of rock literally can not get enough of it at times and after all these years, so I seriously doubt TBS or anyone else is going out of business over isopods or anything else people may find on the rock.
4) I've been keeping hundreds of pounds Florida rock on and off for nearly 20 yrs. and have seen exactly 4 or 5 bad isopods which I promptly netted out, and also didn't feel the need to publicly bash a well liked, highly ethical, and respected dealer with a bunch of bloody nonsense, outright BS, and borderline actionable public statements.
I have a 90 and before that a 55 and never seen the bad guys.
and I had the 55 for over 5 years.
I have bought TBS rock at least 3 times during the 6-7 years I have been in the tampa area.
I have read this message board for the same length of time and not seen any other threads with this problem -- not aying that it had not happened etc... just that no threads I recall have made a big deal about them on TBS rock.
also if you google for the term "ciroland isopods pacicifc live rock" you will get a number of links to info about them and how many kinds are in the sea.
from a quick read they occur in every part of the worlds oceans and fl is no hotbed of infestation.
so like many other things the will be around and sometimes you get a bunch of them in the rock.
along with 999 other kinds of pods and 999,999 kinds of bacteria and other stuff.
I will say that if he were around to answer right now rich would reply and would tell anyone who cares he's not hiding any facts or saying they don't happen etc....
more than once he has shipped rock to customers when they complained asked for him to replace the rock or he felt it was needed to fix a problem due to a shipping problem.
from what I have personaly seen, read etc... he is an honest businessman who cares about what he does and that his customers get taken care of.
Ok just wnated to say that and I hope we all learn from the current issues. and I hope the bad guys go elsewhere for a good long while so we can get the "good stuff" from TBS and not the bad pods.
and I had the 55 for over 5 years.
I have bought TBS rock at least 3 times during the 6-7 years I have been in the tampa area.
I have read this message board for the same length of time and not seen any other threads with this problem -- not aying that it had not happened etc... just that no threads I recall have made a big deal about them on TBS rock.
also if you google for the term "ciroland isopods pacicifc live rock" you will get a number of links to info about them and how many kinds are in the sea.
from a quick read they occur in every part of the worlds oceans and fl is no hotbed of infestation.
so like many other things the will be around and sometimes you get a bunch of them in the rock.
along with 999 other kinds of pods and 999,999 kinds of bacteria and other stuff.
I will say that if he were around to answer right now rich would reply and would tell anyone who cares he's not hiding any facts or saying they don't happen etc....
more than once he has shipped rock to customers when they complained asked for him to replace the rock or he felt it was needed to fix a problem due to a shipping problem.
from what I have personaly seen, read etc... he is an honest businessman who cares about what he does and that his customers get taken care of.
Ok just wnated to say that and I hope we all learn from the current issues. and I hope the bad guys go elsewhere for a good long while so we can get the "good stuff" from TBS and not the bad pods.
Untamed12
New member
I also thought the use of the word "contaminated" was poorly chosen. I think "contaminated" could only be used if something was present that wasn't naturally supposed to be there, so using it in this context is just misinformed.
I purchased TBS rock because of the naturally occurring life that is contained in/on it, AND because it is aquacultured and as close to environmentally sensitive as you can get. I'm prepared to deal with problems, in order to get the reward.
The bottom line is...if you take a piece of the ocean and put it in your aquarium you really, REALLY dpn't know what you are going to get. You may not like everything.
I engage in this discussion frequently with my fellow aquarists...if all you want is bacterial surface area and decorative shapes, just build stuff out of concrete or artificial medium and leave the oceans alone.
I purchased TBS rock because of the naturally occurring life that is contained in/on it, AND because it is aquacultured and as close to environmentally sensitive as you can get. I'm prepared to deal with problems, in order to get the reward.
The bottom line is...if you take a piece of the ocean and put it in your aquarium you really, REALLY dpn't know what you are going to get. You may not like everything.
I engage in this discussion frequently with my fellow aquarists...if all you want is bacterial surface area and decorative shapes, just build stuff out of concrete or artificial medium and leave the oceans alone.
sytanek
New member
I guess lucky for me there were only a few of these buggers, it was really the 10th mantis shrimp and 30 something gorilla crabs that drove me to insanity. They almost completely destroyed the entire cleanup crew that came with my rock. The rock is now in a holding tank in my garage with some powerheads spending at least 6 months out there before I would even consider using it again. I know my case may be rare, and not trying to bash Richard, as he is a very nice guy to deal with, just want to share my experience so people who decide to go the same route can make a decision based on good and bad experiences.
in my experiences the crabs are the #1 pest, EVERY load of TBS rock I have got had plenty of them and they IMHO do more reef damage than the mantis I had in my first load.
I have seen crabs take out cuc's, fish and corals and toppel rocks all the time.
but as noted: I know this all comes out of the gulf and you just have to deal with it.
I'm glad to have not had the iso-suckers so far and have my fingers crossed that I never have them (I hope)
and the giant ones I have seen on TV and in photos give me the creeps!
take a look at this pdf online:
http://niwavessels.co.nz/ncabb/abb/2004-07/abb-2004-07.pdf
they have a photo of one thats huge and I hope to never meet alive and up close!!!
Okay a correction to the verbage.... Infested..... does that work better for ya??
Y'all seem to be missing the point. Hitchhikers are nothing new to LR of any source. We accept a certain amount of risk when we purchase it, mantis, crabs that kind of thing. Occasionally these show up in other places and from other suppliers, but a large number of the people I have seen over the years with this isopod problem, guess where the source was?? TBS... it may be florida rock.. it may be their particular area is just a hot bed for them. I don't know. But they should be at least warning people and taking some basic steps to prevent them from getting into someones tank when they know they have an unusually high incidence rate with them.
They don't do that however.. and while they may be great people to deal with on other issues, this gent is not the first one to get absolutely nowhere with isopod problems.
I think you made your point, none of us has said "it does not happen" as for TBS warning folks ... give it a few weeks as rich is not around right now to update his web site, when he gets back I bet he adds the right info to his web site.
so give him a chance to update it .... if he does not *AFTER* he has come home from his trip *THEN* we can all have a nice chat about what the web site says.
Fair enough ??
one thing I have to wonder is what the natural balance is for them...
for example most things in the ocean are eaten by some other thing.
or has a parasite that attacks it or....
seems that there are a few things that just linger like the red flatworms that almost nothing will eat.
in the open sea and reef the pods (from what I understand) are mostly in the sand or on the rocks till they find an unlucky fish to latch onto.
they seem to be able to live a long time w/o a fish so what kills them?
if we could find a natural process / parasite / or preadator that comes from the gulf / carib area that would be great, as long as it did not cause worse problems.
you mention hog fish, interesting as they come from the right general area... you do mean spanish hog fish right??
not that I expect to find a fish that eats them per se but I wonder if some types of gulf / carib fish are more or less able to eat them or avoid them etc....
just some thoughts on what might be done....
<<< purchased TBS rock because of the naturally occurring life that is contained in/on it, AND because it is aquacultured and as close to environmentally sensitive as you can get. I'm prepared to deal with problems, in order to get the reward.
The bottom line is...if you take a piece of the ocean and put it in your aquarium you really, REALLY dpn't know what you are going to get. You may not like everything. >>>
Excellent post and exactly to the point. The simple fact is there are tried and true methods and many threads here discussing how to successfully remove the small handful of various unwanted critters you may or may not receive on your particular shipment of TBS rock, or any other Florida aquacultured rock. The huge majority have found it well worth the effort to remove these critters to enjoy this highly diverse and interesting rock for years to come. Then there are also those who will rant, complain, point fingers, become disgusted, give up, swear off......whatever.
Regardless of false accusations to the contrary, these isopods are not 'common' and like many other critters are probably only found in abundance during certain times of the year IMO. If they were indeed common you would see thread after thread on the TBS forum discussing them, which you don't. So again, if you do have these isopods in a recent shipment, do your best to catch or trap as many as you can and just wait a few months to introduce any fish (never a bad idea to let the tank mature before adding fish anyway) and the problem will eventually pass.
The bottom line is...if you take a piece of the ocean and put it in your aquarium you really, REALLY dpn't know what you are going to get. You may not like everything. >>>
Excellent post and exactly to the point. The simple fact is there are tried and true methods and many threads here discussing how to successfully remove the small handful of various unwanted critters you may or may not receive on your particular shipment of TBS rock, or any other Florida aquacultured rock. The huge majority have found it well worth the effort to remove these critters to enjoy this highly diverse and interesting rock for years to come. Then there are also those who will rant, complain, point fingers, become disgusted, give up, swear off......whatever.
Regardless of false accusations to the contrary, these isopods are not 'common' and like many other critters are probably only found in abundance during certain times of the year IMO. If they were indeed common you would see thread after thread on the TBS forum discussing them, which you don't. So again, if you do have these isopods in a recent shipment, do your best to catch or trap as many as you can and just wait a few months to introduce any fish (never a bad idea to let the tank mature before adding fish anyway) and the problem will eventually pass.
Imagine there a number of things that will feed on them, but I have no idea if they have a specific predator or not. The most likely ones would be inverts of some sort or "picky" fish like wrasses etc.
On the hog fish.. I'm not sure the exact variety that he ended up using as it was a few years ago. It was either a spanish or a diana's.....
shred5
Premium Member
Actually figuerres there have been several threads on rc about tbs having them in their rock. The question is why do some get so many and others none, Maybe like some said it is seasonal thing. If this can be figured out maybe they should not collect during this time or people that are afraid of them can stay away during this time. To me there is nothing wrong with trying to figure this out with threads like this. But any rock from anywhere could have these in or any other pest. I had 40 pounds of fiji rock that had 3 mantis shrimp..
Also It is like you said, the thing with TBS is there rock is shipped less distance and more life survives so it make sense it would also have more pests. People seem to panic over this stuff to, Oh my god I have a mantis shrimp how do I get them out? I had a mantis in my tank for 5 years and never could catch him. My glass never shattered and I never lost a fish.
This also one reason I tell people to take it slowly. Do not start putting corals and stuff in just in case you do have to move stuff or take a rock out for a bit. do not add a bunch of fish at once. People are in such a rush. With TBs rock you should give it more time because it is much fresher rock with lots of sponges that do not make it.
I set up a hole 75 gallon with aquacultured rock from the area, I do not remember if it was tbs or another vendor but it was the most beautiful and most full of life rock I had ever seen. I was also the heaviest rock.
Dave
Also It is like you said, the thing with TBS is there rock is shipped less distance and more life survives so it make sense it would also have more pests. People seem to panic over this stuff to, Oh my god I have a mantis shrimp how do I get them out? I had a mantis in my tank for 5 years and never could catch him. My glass never shattered and I never lost a fish.
This also one reason I tell people to take it slowly. Do not start putting corals and stuff in just in case you do have to move stuff or take a rock out for a bit. do not add a bunch of fish at once. People are in such a rush. With TBs rock you should give it more time because it is much fresher rock with lots of sponges that do not make it.
I set up a hole 75 gallon with aquacultured rock from the area, I do not remember if it was tbs or another vendor but it was the most beautiful and most full of life rock I had ever seen. I was also the heaviest rock.
Dave
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liverock
RC Sponsor
Pods?
Pods?
Actually this info has been on my site for years...look here
http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/thepackage/organisms.html
You will always get hitch hikers with aquacultured rock as it is grown in the ocean, and when you take the reef from the ocean and put it in your home, you get what lives in the reef, good and bad.
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
Pods?
Actually this info has been on my site for years...look here
http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/thepackage/organisms.html
You will always get hitch hikers with aquacultured rock as it is grown in the ocean, and when you take the reef from the ocean and put it in your home, you get what lives in the reef, good and bad.
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
Re: Pods?
Re: Pods?
Hey there.... thought you were on your trip man!!
by the way I just dumped my sump sock and have a few close ups of my pods, if you want to use some of the photos go for it.
here are my TBS based pods, but some may have also came from some fuge pods I added to my fuge.
by the way I still -- at I guess 5 going on six months have at least one or two of the lacelets that came in my last batch of sand.
my pods:
http://www.figuerres.com/Details.aspx?AlbumID=11&Page=0
I did see an odd thing that for a few minutes I though it was the bad guy... then got a photo, some kind of capsule ??
egg ??
Re: Pods?
Hey there.... thought you were on your trip man!!
by the way I just dumped my sump sock and have a few close ups of my pods, if you want to use some of the photos go for it.
here are my TBS based pods, but some may have also came from some fuge pods I added to my fuge.
by the way I still -- at I guess 5 going on six months have at least one or two of the lacelets that came in my last batch of sand.
my pods:
http://www.figuerres.com/Details.aspx?AlbumID=11&Page=0
I did see an odd thing that for a few minutes I though it was the bad guy... then got a photo, some kind of capsule ??
egg ??
