Cold/Temperate Water Reef

[airinhere]

I talked to a park ranger while visiting Monterey last Summer and was told that I could collect anything I wanted with the exception of the Abalone.

There are certain areas that are considered off limits to collectors (You arent even supposed to touch anything in these areas.) Not very surprisingly, there are not very many areas like this. Most places you can gather whatever strikes your fancy, usually with a limit on size, amount and often with the 'no rock or shells' rule.

I think many people are under the misunderstanding that there is some governmental force looking to arrest people for pulling stuff from the ocean. There are some restrictions, but most stem from sportfishing type limits. Invertibrate life is very rarely an issue legally.

In fact, I am just finishing my PADI open water certification and am looking at places to go dive where I can bring stuff home for my tanks. I am currently tracking down information about how to ship corals into the country that are for my personal tanks. Some red tape: CITES fees, and some forms I will likely have to fill out, but I will know exactly what happened to those corals from the time they were collected. And I will have the greatest selection available so I know I will get the corals I always wanted.

Commercial collecting is another thing altogether. Now you arent just taking a few specimens home, you might be trying to fill a truck with specimens and then nobody else will get to see the wildlife you took. Not even the same thing as collecting for personal use.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10420049#post10420049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by norskfisk
Don't know US law, but just a thought: "Commercial purposes" doesn't that mean that you intend to sell the stuff and make money on it? Here in Norway there is a big difference between commercial purposes and private recreational. If you do commercial stuff you need to have licence from the authorities and permission from land owner if you collect from land. If you collect for private purposes you are free to collect anywhere. So the above mentioned text would not apply to you as a non commercial unit. Same in the US?

It's pretty much the same in the US, though there can be variation from state to state in some regulations. In NY there are some species that are protected due to endangered status, and anything that is considered a game fish or commercial species has size and catch limits. Those size and catch limits also apply to non commercial and non sport fishing use. So that baby fluke in the net has to go back till it grows up to 19 1/2". The baby sea robin, however, is a fair game for the aquarium

 

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Any more pics of some cold setups???

 

[mollymonticello]

Any updates, Steve?

btw, I'm still looking for places that sell some cool water species.

I found a place to get some cold water anemones - Wartah anemones

http://www.fishselections.com/p-1218-waratah-red.aspx

I have no idea how cold they should be. The website actually says 72-78, but then says they need cooler water. I haven't ordered from this place ever, if I do, I'll post in Vendor experiences.

 

[melev]

Did you read this page yet? The temperature is very cold.

http://oregonreef.com/sub_coldwater.htm

And when I went to the Dallas World Aquarium I was shocked that the octopus tank was as cold as it was:

http://melevsreef.com/video/dwa_octo_feeding.wmv (10.3 megs - Right Click & Save As please)

 

[steveweast]

Waratahs are indeed temperate and should be kept in below 60 F water....which is their natural water temp. There have been claims from a few folks reporting success in adapting them to warmer temps.....whether or not that is true, I can't say.

The octopus temp doesn't surprise me at all.....when I dive, the temp is usually in the 40's.....occassionally in the 30's.....and sometimes in the 50's during summer. I chose 53 -55 F because I'm balancing PNW critters (who like upper 40's) with Tasmania critters (who like upper 50's). If I had a PNW biotope only, I'd be lowering the temp to 48 F.

 

[mollymonticello]

Melev,

I love your website and Steve's website. I go to both regularly

Steve,

Thanks for the reply. I've been planning to keep my cold water system around 55* - 65* for subtropical seahorses, depending on what species I can find. I don't want any anemones anyhow, as I'm still looking for the SH (whitei or breviceps) over a year later with no luck. Don't have enough room for Pot-bellies. I DO have a pair of Catalina gobies just hanging out by themselves in their 60*. I don't think I would want a tank as cold as 48*. I'd never want to put my hands in, that's for sure.

I wanted to point out that the website that is selling the anemones still claims tropical temps, and that I know they are wrong. Thanks for letting us know what temps the Wartahs like.

 

[Dale Carlisle]

I don't know anything about these guys but I came across this site today. Check out the flora/fauna section
http://foreshores.net/
Seeing the prices they are charging makes me glad I can dive :eek2:

 

[TheH]

The prices seem reasonable considering shipping is free.

However, there is a $250 minimum and there are no fish.

 

[Frizz]

That stuff is spectacular. I would love to have a tank like that but I don't see myself ever being in a position to collect anything. I have never seen any cold water creatures available at a LFS other than catalina gobies.
Frizz

 

[epiphanus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7936732#post7936732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHemdal
I gave a talk on temperate marines at MACNA last year - I must say that there was very little interest in the topic.

Typical conversation, Aquarist: "Oh - I see you are speaking here, whats your topic?" Me: "Temperate Marine Aquariums". Aquarist: "Anything about mini-reefs?, I just set up a 100 gallon reef" Me: "No, sorry". And then they would just sort of wander away...

I bet there was less than 50 people in the audience.


Jay Hemdal

Jay, if you're still out there... Given the impressive durability of this thread, I'd say that there are at least a few out there who see the potential for a temperate saltwater hobby. Actually, I have just purchased (and am awaiting the arrival of) Advanced Techniques... specifically because of the attention paid to the subject. Did you catch last month's FAMA? In a few years when coldwater marine planted tanks or rocky shore anemone tanks or whatever are the next fad, your talk at MACNA might be revered through the ages as a great clarion call. Just think of all those groupies...

 

[Dale Carlisle]

Here's some shots of my Sunflower star:

First It raids the cookie (Mussel) jar

Then it moves the Mussel towards its central mouth

 

[melev]

That's really neat. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dale Carlisle]

Thanks Marc.
Here's an update on my Intertidal zone system.

First a schematic:

and a shot of the sump in the fishroom:
(don't mind the messy plumbing, I've had to move one or two things when I added the HOB fuge and am slowly cleaning it all up).
The external Pondmaster 250 pump feeds the CSD and the chiller and the chiller returnline feeds the HOB fuge. A small Hydor powerhead with a rotating head creates random flow in the sump fuge.

and the display:
(It appears deceptively bare but there are a lot of things in there... really).
Some inhabitants include:
Approx. 50 - 100 various shrimp and hermits
Various snails
Mussels and Barnacles
Various Limpets
Short Plumose and (I think) Orange Striped Green anenomes
Ochre star
(I think) Dwarf Henricia stars
Sunflower star
Various tidal Sculpins
Rock Pricklebacks
Three Spine Sticklebacks

the refugium in the sump:
(this fuge houses green burrowing anenomes. The HOB fuge was added to house rock pricklebacks. They were originally in the sump but they were eating the anenomes and I had to trap them out). The rockwork was an idea for a bridge to allow hermits to access the whole sump.

the CSD:

and how an Aquaclear HOB powerfilter can act as a return pump:

 

[Dale Carlisle]

Some inhabitants:

Plate Limpet Tectura scutum

Green burrowing anenome Anthopleura artemisia

Collection of Mussels, snails and (to the left above the snail) an Alaskan Skeleton shrimp Caprella alaskana

A Staghorn Sculpin Leptocottus armatus

Rock Prickleback Xiphister mucosus

Ochre star Pisaster ochraceus

 

[Dale Carlisle]

Rockweed Isopod Idotea wosnesenskii

Three spine Sticklebacks Gasterosteus aculeatus

Orange striped green anenomes (I think) Diadumene lineata

This shot shows a clamped up OSG anenome and its asexually produced clones

Short Plumose anenome Metridium senile

 

[mollymonticello]

Dale, that thank is incredible. Good work!

 

[delphinus]

^^ what he said. Simply awesome Dale! Wish it were easier to do something like that inland.

 

[Dale Carlisle]

Thanks Molly and Tony (fellow C__r__fer).
The display itself is not that dramatic, like the punch one gets from seeing a vibrant SPS set up, but there is a lot of subtle interplay that goes on. There are no big fish either to watch as almost all species will decimate the smaller fish and shrimp pop's. I'm planning to up my stickleback school and add some bay pipefish or some tubesnouts when I find them.
Your right about it being harder inland Tony. I'd hate to have to pay for livestock (even if one could at this point). I'm self employed and can nip off to the tidal flats quite often (1/2 Hr away). I probably look like a kook just staring into the water for hours but it is a great way to do nothing.. with a purpose. I'm going diving this week so we'll see what comes of that as well.

 

[mollymonticello]

What species of pipefish and tubesnouts will you put in there? Please post pics when you do