Considering breeding dwarf angels - Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Angel*Fish]

OK - Don't laugh :mixed:

I have a couple of spawning flames & I'm thinking about trying to raise some up. Am I crazy? Before you ask - I've never bred any fish before. I've read J.Wilkerson's book on clowns, several times, and it always sounded like more trouble than a sane person would want...apparently I've slipped over the edge.:wildone:

FWIW, I almost have a degree in biology but never finished. So I'm not a complete dolt education-wise. Just a partial one.

Anyone know why angels are supposed to be more difficult than other fish? Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[FuEl]

Perhaps one of the reasons is that angel larvae require very small foods. The paper below should be helpful to you.

Olivotto, I., Holt, S. A., Carnevali, O., Holt, G. J., 2006. Spawning, early development, and first feeding in the lemonpeel angelfish Centropyge flavissimus. Aquaculture 253, 270-278.

Apparently they used copepod nauplii and dinoflagellates to raise the larvae. The best success rate was only 10% at 14 days.

 

[jnowell]

Also check out RCT in Hawaii (reef culture technologies) Frank Baensch is brilliant, and wrote several articles on centropyge sp. a few years back. Do a search here on Flame Angel in the breeding forum, I posted some comments from him in a thread not too long ago.

It is very difficult, but being as you are 45 minutes from the ocean, you should be able to collect the correct pods, or even strain out enough nauplii to make is work for small number of fry.

Good luck,

Jason

 

[FMarini]

I'm w/ jason on this.
Check out frank beanschs work, he so far has shown that he can reproducibly produce centropyges w/o seining the coeans. He also has been kind enough to tell the world what sp of copepod nauplii he uses and how he gets the centropyges to breed in 55 gal drums.

 

[mwp]

I gotta say "go for it" - worst you can do is dump money into the project and come up empty handed I'd anticipate a lot of banging of the head against a wall, but like so many other things, persistance has to pay off eventually, right?!

You already have the pair, and you can probably figure out how to collect the eggs...next step, get 'em to hatch, then go from there.

MP
(been mulling over C. argi or C. acanthops for about 3+ months now...mandarins first - one project at a time!)

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7414701#post7414701 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FuEl


Apparently they used copepod nauplii and dinoflagellates to raise the larvae.

Holy cow - I'm starting to see why this isn't more poplular. Thanks for the sources, FuEl

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7414788#post7414788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnowell
Also check out RCT in Hawaii (reef culture technologies) Frank Baensch is brilliant, and wrote several articles on centropyge sp. a few years back. Do a search here on Flame Angel in the breeding forum, I posted some comments from him in a thread not too long ago.

It is very difficult, but being as you are 45 minutes from the ocean, you should be able to collect the correct pods, or even strain out enough nauplii to make is work for small number of fry.

Good luck,

Jason

Thanks...I wonder if we have the correct pods in the gulf...hmmm. I will look up this brilliant guy who managed to breed angels without having himself to look up.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7415047#post7415047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FMarini
I'm w/ jason on this.
Check out frank beanschs work, he so far has shown that he can reproducibly produce centropyges w/o seining the coeans. He also has been kind enough to tell the world what sp of copepod nauplii he uses and how he gets the centropyges to breed in 55 gal drums.

Seining the ocean sounds easier to me, of course i haven't tried it yet. That was nice of him to tell us which pods to use! My angels would not breed in 55g drums -- they mentioned that this morning at breakfast. I don't know for absolute certain that fertilization is taking place - it's quite fast & hard to see, but I do know for sure that at least one is releasing gametes - I guess I need to start seining my tank.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7420336#post7420336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
I gotta say "go for it" - worst you can do is dump money into the project and come up empty handed I'd anticipate a lot of banging of the head against a wall, but like so many other things, persistance has to pay off eventually, right?!

You already have the pair, and you can probably figure out how to collect the eggs...next step, get 'em to hatch, then go from there.

MP
(been mulling over C. argi or C. acanthops for about 3+ months now...mandarins first - one project at a time!)

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement or is it that misery loves company


Thanks to all of you for these suggestions & places to start -- tremendous help.

Anything more you guys or anybody else - don't be shy

 

[Angel*Fish]

OK - I've done some investigation & have come to realize I'm not as crazy as I thought I was.

This experimentation/research is for someone who has way more spare time on his hands than I plus a nice public or private grant.

Thanks for the help - I wish I could do it...it's really fascinating.

 

[trueblackpercula]

did you ever get to rase some fry? and if so what was the first food used?
Thanks
Michael

 

[oama]

I spent over six years trying to raise those guys.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Man thats a long time, but did you get close? I will be setting up a breeding programe next year some time. Just looking to find out what the first foods might be.
Michael

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7933628#post7933628 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
did you ever get to rase some fry? and if so what was the first food used?
Thanks
Michael

I looked into it and decided it was just going to be too time consuming. I think you could commit to this full time.

Copepod larvae are the first food. And you have to match up the stage of the angel fry/larvae with right stage of the copepod larvae. Those who've had success have used wild Hawaiian copepods they've strained out of the ocean, I believe.

HTH

 

[trueblackpercula]

I looked into it and decided it was just going to be too time consuming. I think you could commit to this full time.

could possible point me in the right direction as to what species of copepods.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7942715#post7942715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
could possible point me in the right direction as to what species of copepods.

There are posts on this board re: claims of which pods - I believe they say they are quoting F. Baench

One of the companies that sells pods online is a biologist who also keeps other cultures of pods and will sell you some. She may even be up on it enough to recommend a pod.

I don't have time to hunt that stuff down right now - if you don't find it , let me know and I'll do it later. I know I have her email address on my other computer, but I probably won't be able to access that for another week or two. Can't remember the name of her company - but if you find a copepod seller that is also a biologist and female, that's probably the one