Copperband Owners Plz Read

[wooden_reefer]

For me, QT for difficult fish like the CBB is just a FO tank with added mature live rock as food source. I postphone active treatment against ich by a diatom filter and prevent against external bacterial infection with UV.

Don't give QT a bad name. QT does not have to be stressful. QT for the CBB requires a larger tank. 20 gal long a min, IMO.

 

[wayne in norway]

Nowhere in the description of QT does it mention they need to be a bad enviroment. I have live rock in my QT for this sort of fish, dwarf angels and so on.

 

[KEstep]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10714151#post10714151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robsee06
Straight to tank...

IMO QT's cause more problems than they can prevent.

Then you do not have your QT setup right. It has been my experience that a proper setup QT gives the fish a chance to start eatting without competition, and it allows them to become used to you. I have had fish that were not QT'd and they scare just by walking in front of the tank. NOT ONE of my fish that has been qt'd is even remotely afraid of me. My Achillies tang lets me touch it for gods sake and I think it is because of the qt. When you put a fish in a tank immediately after acquiring it you are risking contaminating all your other livestock. If I try to introduce new fish (no qt) with my Achillies he gets sick everytime and then I have to qt him again. I suppose if you keep the easiest to keep of all fish then qt might not be a problem, but if you are like me and want to keep fish that most others cannot then you need to QT.

 

[DrBegalke]

I agree with most of the above.

1) Make sure the fish is eating frozen foods
2) Keep it with relatively peaceful/slow feeding fish. Keeping it with, say tangs, that will zoom around eating all the mysis you are trying to feed it before it can get to them isn't a good thing.

 

[stugray]

"Straight to tank...

IMO QT's cause more problems than they can prevent."

Oh..... then I guess Calfo & Fenner dont know what they are talking about.

Maybe robsee06 should write a book with more of this wisdom

Stu

 

[goldmaniac]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10749261#post10749261 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stugray
"Straight to tank...

IMO QT's cause more problems than they can prevent."

Oh..... then I guess Calfo & Fenner dont know what they are talking about.

Maybe robsee06 should write a book with more of this wisdom

Stu

Calm down. It's his perogative. And in my experience, he has a valid point.

 

[stugray]

goldmaniac

In my experience:

The first copperband I got died because I did NOT QT him. He got sick within 1 day of being put in the display and had lesions on both sides below the dorsal fin.

In the process of trying to catch him to move him to QT, he was stressed and was pronounced DOA in the QT. If I had QT'ed him properly I would not be on CBB #2. Which BTW is extremely healthy, eats Mysis, bloodworms, and frozen Green Mussels ( which he learned while in QT ).


As for the "Calm down. It's his perogative."

It is also my perogative to say that his suggestion to NOT use quarantine is not only BAD advice, but contrary to ALL of the "expert's" advice. Please give me one example of a "published" reef aquarist who says that QT is not required.

The ONLY fish I put directly in my display is a dragonnette. There are two reasons for that: 1- dragonnettes have a slime coat and no scales, so they dont carry as many parasites. 2 - the mandarins would likely starve to death in a QT unless it is setup with a sand bed & live rock ( which partially defeats the purpose of a QT ).

If you would like to expand upon the "valid point" of not using a QT, then that is your perogative, and I would enjoy the entertainment.

Stu

 

[craab]

everybody is entitled to their own opinion, you do not need to insult them if theirs is different then yours. Your very confrontational for some reason.

I've been in the reef keeping game for many years now without every qt'ing a fish. What works for somebody may not work for somebody else, does not mean it is right or wrong.

 

[goldmaniac]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10714151#post10714151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robsee06
Straight to tank...

IMO QT's cause more problems than they can prevent.

Stufish, this is the quote that you originally attacked. Robsee06 is simply stating an opinion. There was no authoritative tone to it, he/she was just stating their experience, which is what we all want to hear.

Craab's right, the tone we all picked up from your comments was inappropriate. Of course you should QT everything before you put it into your tank, but that's not always the most realistic option. Some would argue that a proper QT runs many months. I'd agree with that point of view. But sometimes that's simply not possible, and can even be more harmful to the animal(s) if done halfway.

The reasons for your exception with not QT'ing a mandarinfish could also be applied to a CBB. They need to graze as well, and putting enough live rock in there, and keeping the water parameters stable, and creating a proper filtration and circulation setup all have the possibility of running askew in a new setup and contribute to the possibility that the QT environment might be detrimental to a coppperband butterflyfish. If you don't have a permanent QT tank, it's hard to get a temporary QT tank into a stable setup quickly, sometimes.

I'm not saying that Robsee06 was right or wrong. This is a hobby of case-by-case situations. Yes, QT when you can, but often unstable parameters can cause as much of a risk of doom to your animals as adding a new addition to a display tank.

I'll try to make my original statement clearer this time: Back off and remember that IMO is a preface to an opinion. It's everyone's perogative to decide what's best for their own tank in their own situation. All opinions are valid, no opinions are not valid. they're just opinions. Even mine, even yours.

G.

 

[stugray]

craab,

"Your very confrontational for some reason"

I wouldnt say confrontational, however the attitude of my first response was because robsee06's comment was partiularly flippant. He made a statement that was completely in conflict with the accepted opinions of the experts, but he made no factual statements as to WHY he feels that way.

IMO - it is no help to people on this forum to just throw out opinons with no factual evidence. What about the people who say things like: "Copperbands are not appropriate for hobbiest tanks"

If I made that statement on this thread without backing myself up with facts, then it adds nothing to the discussion.

If you have never QTd a fish, then you have either been very lucky or your source QTs them for you. I for one would not be willing to risk all of the inhabitants in my display just because I am too impatient to observe the new specimin for three weeks in my QT. I have, in fact, caught Ich, brook, and a couple of deadly parasitic infections in my QT tank. If I had put those fish in my display, I would no longer be in the hobby because everything would be dead.

goldmaniac,

"The reasons for your exception with not QT'ing a mandarinfish could also be applied to a CBB. They need to graze as well"

As I stated before, my latest CBB was QTd. He ate Mysis & bloodworms while in QT for the entire 3 weeks. Therefore they do NOT need to graze. He immediatley ate all of my aptasia & micro-feather duster worms within two days of being put in the display.

He now happily eats mysis, bloodworms & green mussels ( and the occasional hermit crab if he doesnt get fed every day ).

Also, I feel that a QT is an absolute MUST for people in this hobby. I use the QT tank for more than just incoming specimins. I also use the QT for 'cooking' live rock that has too much algae or undesirable growth. I use it for many things between buying new fish. And keeping my QT parameters in check is simple. Whenever I do a water change from my display, the old display water is the "new" water for the QT. This way the QT is always getting decent water, the specimins in the QT are getting accclimated to the display water, and I almost NEVER need to clean the fluval 404 that is running on the QT because it is oversized for a 15 Gallon and the display water keeps the bacterial population healthy.

Now there are some statements with some fact included with my opinions.

Stu

 

[Julio]

copperbands are one of the easiest of butterflies to keep, if you do get a finicky eater you can always get them to eat a clam on a half shell just to get them started.

 

[bob124578]

I created a system that was teeming with spaghetti worms and mini feathers dusters before i got a CB. Then while he was learning to pick food out of the water column (3 weeks) he ate almost all those worms and was finally catching on to paying attention to what drifts in his face in the column. Then frozen PE Mysid shrimp -- soaked brine -- eventually any frozen food. I also harvest amphipods out of the sump (turkey baster) once a week and release them into the rockwork. Then all the fish can forage throughout the day.
I currently have a CB, Schooling BF and a Long Nose BF fat and happy in a 120. The CB was not eating when I bought him and has not touched the one aptasia in the tank.

 

[stugray]

And on a constructive note:

"If you don't have a permanent QT tank, it's hard to get a temporary QT tank into a stable setup quickly, sometimes."

The trick I used to use ( before I setup a permanent QT ) was to do the following:

1 - Keep the QT setup totally cleaned & covered with no water. With all components clean and inside the tank. ( I even used to clean the filter & hoses with bleach water ).

2 - Whatever filtration system you use should have the media removed and stored in your display system ( sump, fuge, or overflow ). The media from the QT should not be moved to the display unless any specimins have been QTed for at least three weeks of course! I use bioballs & pellet media in my fluval 404, I used to move these to my sump in a filter bag or nylon stocking.

3 - When it comes time to setup the QT, do a water change to the display of however many gallons it takes to fill the QT.

4 - Setup the QT using the water from the display.

5 - Put the media from the display back into the filter and turn it on.

I have used this method enough times with absolutely NO cycle, that I began trusting it for a new fish immediately after turning on the filter. Other's methods may differ, so I suggest you give it a few days & check the parameters, at least the first few times.

HTH

Julio & bob124578

I feed mine frozen green mussels as well. You can find them at any Asian market in the frozen seafood section. They are about $10 for a 4 month supply. The only drawback is fishing all the shells out once they are cleaned. But his favorite food, by far, is bloodworms.

Stu

 

[robsee06]

Stugray,

My apologies for "sounding" flippant to you...I was not trying to be. I made this post to gather some information from "experts" like yourself on what it took to keep a Copperband alive. I appreciate everyone's advice and opinion...even yours.

I am forunate to be enjoying my first Copperband. He is alive and well, eating like a pig, and generally happy.

Someone recommended not QT'ing a CB because of their finnicky eating habits. In My Humble OPINION I agree with that person and CHOSE not to QT mine. It proved to be successful...I am thankful for that persons recommendation.

If you want to look at the facts as you suggest in your posts then look at the fact that you killed your first CB before you figured out how to acclimate one successfully.

I hope never to have your success rate.

Good Day.

 

[mscarpena]

I have had mine for about 3 yrs and he is doing great. I asked the LFS to feed and he ate brine and blood worms. He looked gernerally healthy and was about 4 inches so I picked him up. He now eats brine, mysid, plankton, bloodworms, and a few things out of marine supreme. I have not had any problems except he ate my fan worms.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10758085#post10758085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bob124578
I created a system that was teeming with spaghetti worms and mini feathers dusters before i got a CB. Then while he was learning to pick food out of the water column (3 weeks) he ate almost all those worms and was finally catching on to paying attention to what drifts in his face in the column. Then frozen PE Mysid shrimp -- soaked brine -- eventually any frozen food. I also harvest amphipods out of the sump (turkey baster) once a week and release them into the rockwork. Then all the fish can forage throughout the day.
I currently have a CB, Schooling BF and a Long Nose BF fat and happy in a 120. The CB was not eating when I bought him and has not touched the one aptasia in the tank.

This is the "right" way...obviously an experienced fish keeper here.

 

[jelwyoming]

I had one that I kept near a year. I started him like bob124578, with a lot of worms and other natural forage. He slowly started eating the frozen mysid and plankton. He died with 60% of my other fish in a power outage that lasted 8 hours...at night when we were all asleep!
I just added another from LA's diver's den. I've had him 2 weeks and all is well so far. He's about a 4" in size.
I found with CB's, that the larger ones seem to fair better, at least for me. I had tried several smaller ones also. None of them ever ate anything and perished.

 

[goldmaniac]

well, I think that after about 4 weeks, my CBB is doomed. I didnt' check this morning before work, but he has gotten quite thin and for the first time, he's hiding in the live rock near the sand. I think he's gotten too weak to fight the flow in the water coumn.

shame. I had him eating mysis shrimp, that was his favorite, but he just didn't get enough, as he was eating the VERY smallest pieces.

I've had a tank for 8 years, and was always wary of getting the CBB's. but Family Majority voted for him, and once in a while I have to go with Majority Rule in order to further my other agendas.

And in reality, I thought I had a very decent fighting chance to keep him.

For reference to all - what he liked the most, in order:

mysis shrimp
BLACK worms
blood worms
brine shrimp
never touched any kind of flake or Formula B frozen


I expect he's become food for the crabs overnight.

what a shame.

I bet my 6-line wrasse, which departed about 2-3 months ago, wiped the food supply and maybe I didn't give enough time for critters and bugs to replenish.

G.
G.

 

[islandcreation]

Can everyone vouch that their copper band eats aipatasia's? Does it pick on any corals by chance? Thanks

Sorry to jack the thread but this fish is getting interesting for me.

 

[robsee06]

My Copperband has eaten every feather duster in the tank but does not nip at anything else. He does not eat coral polyps or nip at my Crocea.

Whether it will eat Aptasia or not is hard to say. It seems to be 50/50.

Once they start eating...look out...they'll eat you out of house and home.