Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank) - split

Peter, I am very sorry for your loss. This makes me want to re-evaluate my plan for catastrophic failure, do I have the necessary equipment and tools in place to deal with an event like this (though on a much smaller scale)? I thank you for sharing your journey and look forward to what you come up with next.

It isn't fun planning for disaster, but a good plan helps everything just come together when you are unable mitigate damage quickly. We took care of everything except the rock and sand in just 4 hours. Pretty incredible really. Within an hour it was hard to tell the water was ever on the floor.

Installing fail-safes that you hope will never be used is a hard expense to add to a build, but in the unlikely event that they are needed in the future, it's truly priceless.

We have alarms, floor drains, auto-shutoff redundancy, and water proofing. We will discuss some of these practices at a later date, but over the past 5 years many of them have saved us from bigger problems.
 
So sorry to hear about your loss. Hoping you are able to make a recovery over time. I have enjoyed reading about your build and seeing all the pictures and feedback. I have learned new things and that's invaluable.
 
I'll preface this with a few things:

1) I am not a structural engineer, but I am an engineer, PE, but electrical

2) I have a pretty fair amount of acrylic experience, but not with anything close to this size

3) I have gathered a lot of knowledge about acrylic fabrication

4) I would classify myself as highly knowledgeable in the aquarium building world, but I hesitate to label myself an "expert". So I am totally open to being called wrong.

With that said...

Looking at that massive rip at the seam would make me think about additional support against the outward water pressure.

This has significantly less to do with it than does the vertical height of the tank. Water pressure is a function of depth, not length, of the water column behind it. If that was the case, one would expect the failure to occur closest to the right side of the joint (with 16' of perpendicular water column behind it)

One could have a 200' long tank and the water pressure at the bottom is no more than a 2' long tank. There are other factors that come into play when dealing with widths, but not perpendicular to the panel/joint.

If anything, the width of the tank has more to do with it, but then mainly with respect to bowing. The longer a panel is, the more it will bow (all other things equal). Bowing also is a function of the thickness of the bottom panel and the top euro and configuration of the bracing. A wider perimeter brace and wider and higher # of crossbraces will contribute to the tanks propensity to bow (more or less bowing) over time.

Bowing is also a factor of time (and material thickness). Generally speaking, after 16 weeks or so of water in the tank, it's going to have bowed as much as it ever will as acrylic is part water and therefore will absorb a very small percentage of water over time.

This is also why you do not want to put water into a freshly bonded tank for any longer than maybe an intial fill test, because the freshly bonded joint is more porous than the material, and will absorb water at a (fractionally) higher rate. This can lead to whiting of the joints over time and may lead to premature failure.

While it sounds quite ridiculous, a good rule of thumb is that for every 1/4" of material thickness, wait 1 week before filling. This makes for a not so good business model as one would have to tell their customers to wait 2 months after their 2" thick walled tank is complete to fill it. But that's what you really should do. This is obviously not the case with this tank I might add, plenty of dry time.

The front panel that failed is only 1" and it has 16' of water pushing against it. We didn't have any type of wave device that would add undue stress.

I'm not an acrylic bonding expert, but it appears that the seam was faulty as there was no physical incident with the are.

CONFIGURATION
Display Tank
The acrylic tank is L shaped with the following dimensions: Length is 8 feet plus 16 feet: Width is 3 feet: and Height is 2 and one half feet. (24'X3'X2.5') I'm not sure what the metric equivalent would be. The tank is at least 1" thick all round except the 16 ft panel which is 1.5 "œ.
The tank is accompanied by a custom tubular steel stand fitted to the tank by ATM.

For a 30" tall tank, 3/4" is usually the recommended minimum. So you are double that for the 16' panel and still over that for the 8' panel.

The factor that I cannot knowledgeable shed light on here, but I think is worth considering, is the shape of the tank. The L shaped tank has some properties that are a bit beyond my reach, but I know who to ask and I might. So here is where some educated guessing comes into play so take this with a grain of sea salt.

If you look at the 2end point of the panel failure, you will see something that supports my guess here

IMG_7228_zpsceacerql.jpg


Do you see it?

If you extend the panel on the other side of the 16' panel so that it intersects with the end panel - that's where the failure cracked the panel and went up.

So my thoughts here are that the additional (special) stresses involved inherent to an L shaped tank maybe have somehow focused a bit higher, somewhere near the middle of the 8' panel. Keep in mind - just an educated guess.

Now normally, if the tank was built to the minimum, this might cause an issue. Overbuilding the tank, I would think, would alleviate that stress.

Also, I know that ATM uses Polycast so we are talking about the best material, and actual 1" material not the "metric equivalent" that it would be if it were Plexiglas/Arkema or Acrylite/Cyro.

In addition to that, I mentioned earlier about solvent vs 2-part (40) and it was commented that ATM does both. I've seen this too, especially one long tank with a big coral insert where they solvent welded the bottom on after the insert was placed on it and the rest of the tank lowered over it. It also occurred to me that it is likely that all bottom joints are more easily and likely solvent welded, because 1) the only joints most people care about being glass-clear are the vertical ones 2) a 2-part joint requires a space between the panels to fill the joint (either a fixed gap or a beveled edge) which would be difficult to do on a top/bottom joint. But that doesn't mean it's not done and I'm just speaking from common sense here, not direct knowledge or personal experience. If the joint looks flawless and clear, it's 40. If you can see what I would compare to a "thermocline" when diving, it's definitely not 40 - it's solvent. That's how you can tell.

Now I've seen tanks with bottom seam separation when they showed up. One is in a restaurant in town owned by a friend where I got called to look at a scratch. I wasn't concerned about the scratch. But what can happen is that when a builder sets a joint and doesn't let it cure long enough before routing, handling, shipping, etc is that the joint can cure up poorly. Again, we're on this issue of # of days before even touching the build being related to the thickness of the material as thicker material requires longer. And the result may not show up for a long time - a bad section of a joint would be totally imperceptible until it failed.

Again, I'm not saying that is what happened - just a possibility. I'm typing out loud. Because I don't want to work right now.

If you do opt to remove/replace the existing stand I would be curious to see if the floor is still level. The house itself was still fairly new when this tank went in and I'm curious if the foundation has settled a bit during the intervening years leading up to this terrible disaster.

Dave.M

Certainly a possibility also...

The other possibility is that there was a material defect. I just remembered that in the tank at our LFS that blew, the insurance company did not call that a manufacturing defect - they were somehow able to determine that it was in fact a material defect in the bottom panel. In that case, the point of failure was in the bottom panel, near the back edge. The failure actually ripped through the joint, and the joint was largely in tact.

Peter's tank however clearly failed at the joint. This seems to point to a manufacturing defect at the outset, but that's not to say that there wasn't actually some kind of material defect near the joint that started the whole process. Unless you had a camera on it, you'll likely never know.

But I have investigated tank failures myself and I've been able to directly pinpoint the cause. One was when someone decided to use a 70" and 2" panel and cut them at 45s and weld them together instead of using a solid 72" piece for the bottom of a sump. They used a ton of 40 on the bottom joint but the panel was not flush at the bond point (there was a ridge) and the result was that the vertical panel failed at the point of the bottom panel butt-joint. It happened within hours of a test fill.

It also could have been a combination of many factors: L shape stresses, panel thickness, joint quality, settling, material defect - any combination of a few of these could have piled up and just been too much.

I will say this: the tank appears to have been built well from a material thickness standpoint. I'll have to dig for euro pics (may be a factor). They didn't skimp on the bottom panel and I'm guessing not the euro either (I've not seen ATM cut a corner on these like some others do).
 
wow.. ive never seen this tank before but reading your story on page 34 was very emotional and almost morgan freedman sounding..

I am so sorry for your loss, this is truly such a sad thing to come across and i hope that you are able to rebound and things better..

Ive always felt like (as a young, wanna be professional) that money spent in this hobby was an investment in my own well being.. and for you to say what what youve said really does reinforce that decision for me... If i were closer I would have done anything i could of to help (youre about 7 hours away from me, 13126)

If you ever rebuild, and its alright, I would love to come see your house and tank and meet you, or if youre ever in my neck of the woods, let me know :) I'll show off my humble 93 cube (if its up in time).

I wish you and your family a speedy recovery and hope that the fish do well.
 
I Discovered this thread (and its previous split) about a week ago and read through the whole thing. I very much enjoyed the methodical way various methods and solutions were tested and evaluated.

Peter, im sorry to hear about this, but also glad that it doesnt sound like youve given up on the hobby.



This has significantly less to do with it than does the vertical height of the tank. Water pressure is a function of depth, not length, of the water column behind it. If that was the case, one would expect the failure to occur closest to the right side of the joint (with 16' of perpendicular water column behind it)

One could have a 200' long tank and the water pressure at the bottom is no more than a 2' long tank. There are other factors that come into play when dealing with widths, but not perpendicular to the panel/joint.

If anything, the width of the tank has more to do with it, but then mainly with respect to bowing. The longer a panel is, the more it will bow (all other things equal). Bowing also is a function of the thickness of the bottom panel and the top euro and configuration of the bracing. A wider perimeter brace and wider and higher # of crossbraces will contribute to the tanks propensity to bow (more or less bowing) over time.

Bowing is also a factor of time (and material thickness). Generally speaking, after 16 weeks or so of water in the tank, it's going to have bowed as much as it ever will as acrylic is part water and therefore will absorb a very small percentage of water over time.


I am also an Engineer (though a chemical engineer), and I agree with your explanation.
 
My deepest sympathies to you and your team Peter. You have delighted us all for years with your exemplary writing and reefing skills and allowed us all to enjoy in your dream tank. Much can be learned from the way you and your team handle yourselves and approach problems. Many thanks to you all.

tenacitas per aspera
 
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Wow that's terrible :( last weekend I tried to move a coral in my tank and the whole centre section of rock basically collapsed I was furious, upset At the view of several seriously nice acros with broken tips scattered across the tank floor and basically very disheartend with it.
So I can barely imagine how this must feel, I suppose all you can do is start again, such an easy to thing to say though with such a mammoth task ahead.

I will add though that surely no company will now honour any warranty, they wouldn't over here. After 5 years I'm sure they will say that any manufacturing defect would have shown up long ago and it's the fault of xyz. Although I know you guys have totally different consumer laws etc. I just think they moment they admit fault then they open the gate to further claims for livestock, property damage and perhaps even time.

Anyway best of luck with it all, it certainly was a very very special tank.
 
tank disaster

tank disaster

peter , not sure of the words to say to u cant believe your composure im sure u had your moments. I was introduced to your tank by a friend and have read your posts and truly was amazed at something I could never have , but good on u for having something so wonderful .truly amazing .
look forward to further posts and updates and even more on a poss rebuild .
keep your chin up
tom
 
You know Peter, I had to come back and write again. This may be a little premature, but so be it...

The amount of time you and others have spent on this build is incalculable. From not only the work you guys did, but all the input from others here on RC, to the manufacturing of equipment, etc., etc. It's an amount of time that would be mind numbing if you could actually count up the hours. The fact that you let others add so much input to your system almost makes it feel like "everyone's system". The community tank so to speak. My point is you have so much invested and an obvious passion for the hobby and the means to do it on a grand scale that you can't quit. You have everything already, you just need a new tank and livestock. ATM, "if you're reading this" needs to make this right and replace the tank at their expense. Perhaps this time they "UP" the safety factor. Ultimately I'm suggesting that you rebuild your reef. Fix the things you didn't like and obviously keep the things that worked. The quickest way to get past this tragedy is to start the rebuild and I'm encouraging you to please do it. I'm confident you can get your reef back to where it was in no time.
 
I have followed this tank build from the beginning. My condolences go out to you Peter for such a loss of life and property. Our reef tanks are often the homes of of extended members of the family, each with unique "personalities." To lose 90% of those pets in a moment saddens me to even think of. I hope you will continue to keep us informed, as you have throughout, on the outcome with warranty and insurance coverage, saved livestock, and the potential rebuild.
 
Its late and I have a vicious cold that I thought had peaked but I am discovering its just the beginning. I won't take you through the symptoms but I really really feel like crap but I cannot go to bed without telling each and every one of this community that has put out real heartfelt support that it really has impacted me through this experience I pledge to you that I will respond and recognize each and every one of you who have proven that the positive culture we established right from the beginning of this trek is a true reflection of the very best of the family that built this recognition that we all can rise above this. So from my cold medicine haze I want to ask you to hang around, for a longer more intimate discourse in the very near future . There is a lot to learn to benefit the large tank owners and we will pursue those best practices together. My love and respect to each end every one of you........

Peter
 
Peter mentioned that this was the coldest February in Toronto history, could this be a possible cause of failure? Could the cold ground shift the structure of the house/stand to cause the seam to let loose? Since the tank has been up for 5 years wouldn't a weak joint show up earlier than this? Just seems odd this would happen 5 year down the road when the tank was looked after so often, then BAM failure.
 
Peter mentioned that this was the coldest February in Toronto history, could this be a possible cause of failure? Could the cold ground shift the structure of the house/stand to cause the seam to let loose? Since the tank has been up for 5 years wouldn't a weak joint show up earlier than this? Just seems odd this would happen 5 year down the road when the tank was looked after so often, then BAM failure.

The insurance adjuster has assured that the cause was manufacturer defect (faulty seam bond). He inspected the foundation and all other structural aspects of the aquarium environment.
 
Peter, sorry to hear about this incident.....

Over the short time that this system was up and running you were generous enough to let me enjoy it not once but twice..... I am but a local reefer that would like to return the generosity and would like to give you a helping hand, however big or small it might be.....
 
My condoleances for this disaster. Though a sad start, I look forward to seeing how the new tank will evolve to be an even better tank than your previous work of art was.

Good luck.
 
What's worse than having an ordeal than this? Having it happen in the middle of the night while you are sick! What a terrible thing to hear! Hopefully the backing of the many fans you have here will boost you up and help you move ahead.
 
Peter mentioned that this was the coldest February in Toronto history, could this be a possible cause of failure? Could the cold ground shift the structure of the house/stand to cause the seam to let loose? Since the tank has been up for 5 years wouldn't a weak joint show up earlier than this? Just seems odd this would happen 5 year down the road when the tank was looked after so often, then BAM failure.

The tank sits 3 feet off the ground, in the middle of a perfectly temperate room 24/7 365. From an engineering perspective there is no possibility.

Now in the spring when the winter freeze starts to thaw on any given structure the ground might shift differently causing cracks in a foundation and sometimes trickles of water seep into ones basement, but again this would not affect a structure that is in the middle of a room.

S
 
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