Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[Goodwin9]

I guess I can answer this. That unit you brought up does not make more then 150 gallons per day unless you get the booster pump version. As a matter of fact there is no such thing as a RO that has a respectable rejection rate that can produce more then 150 gpd without a booster pump. That being said with a booster pump that unit I have tested and still does not come close to the manufacturers rating(under Ontario water conditions) Now if there is a residential size "high output" unit. It still won't make the cut. Reason being is, this unit that you posted is for Drinking Water. They market it as a on demand RO systems that does not require a tank. I sell a similar product to homes. At the end of the day its way faster then a regular RO BUT!!!! it is designed for drinking water. Why that fact is important is because the filters and membrane are designed for the amount of water a perosn would drink, not the amount of water Peter needs for water changes. Peter is going through 1000gallons a month, that system would be completly expired after 1000 gallons, because 1000 gallons on that system under normal use would be drinking water for 3 years. The difference between a 600gpd system like that and a 600gpd commercial system is the commercial ones are designed to filter tens of thousands of gallons constantly.

I have been running the Merlin unit at my home for more than 5 years. Most of the time, I average 25 gallons an hour of water production. I run a 20 inch carbon pre filter before water enters the unit and then polish the water with a 25 lb DI tank. I couldn't be more happy with the way the unit works.

 

[Chago09]

Goodwin what is your tap TDS? What is your post RO TDS? how many gallons do you use weekly?

 

[Goodwin9]

Goodwin what is your tap TDS? What is your post RO TDS? how many gallons do you use weekly?

Tap TDS is running around 315. Post TDS is at zero. Filters and resin were changed out 3 weeks ago. On average, I use about 350 gallons a week.

 

[Chago09]

Tap TDS is running around 315. Post TDS is at zero. Filters and resin were changed out 3 weeks ago. On average, I use about 350 gallons a week.[/QUOT

Goodwin I don't know what to tell you... how often do you replace those filters? I have used and sold those before and never had any luck with them. I have experienced at least 30 units and have had an average of about 350 - 400 gallons per day out of the booster paump version. Also the TDS did not remain down. I use "faster" RO systems for companies who want them attached to ice makers and large drinking water stations. It never could keep up with demand and in no time I had calcium build up on the dispensers which could only happen if there was a high TDS. I have honestly never seen one perform as you described.

 

[Chago09]

Tap TDS is running around 315. Post TDS is at zero. Filters and resin were changed out 3 weeks ago. On average, I use about 350 gallons a week.

ohh and you said post TDS is 0... is that after the DI???? check what it is after the RO and before the DI

 

[Goodwin9]

ohh and you said post TDS is 0... is that after the DI???? check what it is after the RO and before the DI

When we replaced the filters 3 weeks ago, the TDS after the Merlin unit was 4, and water out after resin tank was zero. I have been averaging about 5 months between filter changes. I found that flushing 2 or 3 gallons of RO water out of the Merlin before running it through the DI tank extends the life of resin by more than a month.

 

[Chago09]

When we replaced the filters 3 weeks ago, the TDS after the Merlin unit was 4, and water out after resin tank was zero. I have been averaging about 5 months between filter changes. I found that flushing 2 or 3 gallons of RO water out of the Merlin before running it through the DI tank extends the life of resin by more than a month.

Ok and thats about right, with commercial units your using filters and membranes about 4 times as long as that. Again that unit is working great for you and I am glad. Although the here I know from experience they didn't work as effectively as yours.

Sometimes people associate the quality of there water by the TDS. Thats like saying my lights are better then yours because I have more watts. In reality water quality is based on so much more. The make up of that TDS is whats really important. Really to test that, you need sophistacated equipment which only a lab or your township would have. For example my parents live in the country and have well water of over 1000ppm. I gave my parents a simple RO under the sink unit for their drinking water needs and it gets down to about 4ppm. In my house I have city water and I use the exact same small unit and I have 6ppm but my tap is only 150ppm.

Also water hardness is key, we NEED softners here. Its so bad your shower heads will simply plug shut in a matter of months without a softener. sometimes I forget to add more salt and i can see a difference within days in water flow. Using a softener it helps, although there is still a lot of scale which kills the Membrane and either slows down water production or will have poor rejection rate and you will have a high TDS.

Lastly All of Ontario has extremley high Iron. Iron is a carbon block killer. It creates a gelatin like substance over top of the carbon which plugs it. This obvioulsy allows less water into the RO which obvioulsy means less product water.

Your DI I'm curious as to what brand that is? I have seen a lot of new units out there now that store the resin like that one you have. They seems to be a bit more pricey but store a lot more resin, meaning a lot longer life. Let me know

Thanks

 

[aquainas]

I start with around 700 TDS incoming through a CO2 de-gas chamber-->through a 1 micron sediment filer-->.5 micron carbon block at ~98% efficiency membrane for a net TDS of 14ppm into my first DI where it comes out 0ppm into the second DI (Silicates) and out 0ppm.
My pressure 60psi and I get about 600g per DI I have used the same membrane, sediment filter and carbon block for a full year now without degradation in performance.

 

[Chago09]

I start with around 700 TDS incoming through a CO2 de-gas chamber-->through a 1 micron sediment filer-->.5 micron carbon block at ~98% efficiency membrane for a net TDS of 14ppm into my first DI where it comes out 0ppm into the second DI (Silicates) and out 0ppm.
My pressure 60psi and I get about 600g per DI I have used the same membrane, sediment filter and carbon block for a full year now without degradation in performance.

600 gallon per DI? so your replacing it every 600 gallons? either your using a under sized DI or your TDS meter is not correct, because 14 TDS post RO should not kill a DI that quickly. On any decent DI you should be getting at least 2000 gallons on a DI if your showing 14TDS post RO. The ones I use are sort of middle of the road cartridges and I get up to 8000 - 10000 gallons on a 5 TDS.

 

[Chago09]

I start with around 700 TDS incoming through a CO2 de-gas chamber-->through a 1 micron sediment filer-->.5 micron carbon block at ~98% efficiency membrane for a net TDS of 14ppm into my first DI where it comes out 0ppm into the second DI (Silicates) and out 0ppm.
My pressure 60psi and I get about 600g per DI I have used the same membrane, sediment filter and carbon block for a full year now without degradation in performance.

sorry I forgot to ask what unit are you using?

Sorry peter not trying to turn your thread into a RODI question and answer LOL If I'm talking to much just :uzi: LOL

 

[aquainas]

Ok and thats about right, with commercial units your using filters and membranes about 4 times as long as that. Again that unit is working great for you and I am glad. Although the here I know from experience they didn't work as effectively as yours.

Sometimes people associate the quality of there water by the TDS. Thats like saying my lights are better then yours because I have more watts. In reality water quality is based on so much more. The make up of that TDS is whats really important. Really to test that, you need sophistacated equipment which only a lab or your township would have. For example my parents live in the country and have well water of over 1000ppm. I gave my parents a simple RO under the sink unit for their drinking water needs and it gets down to about 4ppm. In my house I have city water and I use the exact same small unit and I have 6ppm but my tap is only 150ppm.

Also water hardness is key, we NEED softners here. Its so bad your shower heads will simply plug shut in a matter of months without a softener. sometimes I forget to add more salt and i can see a difference within days in water flow. Using a softener it helps, although there is still a lot of scale which kills the Membrane and either slows down water production or will have poor rejection rate and you will have a high TDS.

Lastly All of Ontario has extremley high Iron. Iron is a carbon block killer. It creates a gelatin like substance over top of the carbon which plugs it. This obvioulsy allows less water into the RO which obvioulsy means less product water.

Your DI I'm curious as to what brand that is? I have seen a lot of new units out there now that store the resin like that one you have. They seems to be a bit more pricey but store a lot more resin, meaning a lot longer life. Let me know

Thanks

So true^
I have measured 16ppm CO2 at various times throughout the year
Oh and by the way my system is connected directly to my water softener for obvious reasons.

 

[aquainas]

sorry I forgot to ask what unit are you using?

Sorry peter not trying to turn your thread into a RODI question and answer LOL If I'm talking to much just :uzi: LOL

Peter I apologize in advance as well
I'm running a Spectrpure MaxCap 90
I attribute 600g to the fact I replace DI at 1ppm AND CO2, which prior to this month gave me a net TDS of ~30 post membrane. After the addition of the C02 chamber that has been reduced to 14ttds.

Here's a pic:

 

[Chago09]

So true^
I have measured 16ppm CO2 at various times throughout the year
Oh and by the way my system is connected directly to my water softener for obvious reasons.

Yes a very close friend of mine is a water dealer in Arizona. Arizona was once upon a time the capital of RO systems in North America, everyone wanted to sell their. For one obvious reason.... water is BRUTAL!!! at times. Now there is soooo many dealers in Arizona and people can pick up RO systems and parts anywhere.

 

[spsreeflover]

Hi Peter

I see you tread so fast, when you put sps. lps, fish ? So i can see your tank COMPLETELY like Ching Cai Tank, He always show picture all the time so his fan can and always follow progress of his tank.

Thanks

 

[Ken_Baird]

Sorry peter not trying to turn your thread into a RODI question and answer LOL If I'm talking to much just :uzi: LOL

Wait! I know this is Peters build... But I need to know more about dealing with Ontario water, at least those of us that are on the Golden Horseshoe side.

I understand that the GTA (Peter) is getting water from the Lake, so I think it is a little different then the water we get to the north as we are getting ground water. I have been fighting to get good water for my tank for years as Orangeville I believed has the same mess you do. I get 550 TDS :eek2: in to the house from the street and have to go from there. If you can please start a "How to handle Ontario water" thread :wave: please!!:beer:

 

[SaraB]

Peter - My friend Stan also uses that GE Merlin RO/DI system and loves it! If you want more details from him, I'll drag him into this conversation.

 

[nineball]

Peter - My friend Stan also uses that GE Merlin RO/DI system and loves it! If you want more details from him, I'll drag him into this conversation.

Thanks Sara, this is probably a good time to announce a new member of the inner cabinet for 'our build'. After a couple of meetings and lengthy reviews I have asked Chago to be the community and tanks waterman. Chago has been in the water business since before time and I am very confident he can take the challenge that I put to him as follows:

Please build a water purification and supply system for our tank that represents the best practice for the industry. I want reliability and trust in the system that it can produce the highest quality water for our tank. I want equipment that is relatively easy to maintain and monitor. I want a maintenance schedule and procedure that is relatively straight forward for a simple man like me to manage. I would like his help in responding to questions on the thread as Mr. Wilson has done so very very well.

He knows he will be closely scrutinized by you all and he is also one of those good people who will listen and participate in this thread. His primary motivation is to be associated with this build and help improve the knowledge base for all of us. He is also a reef addict, a new father and huge fan of this build. Please help me welcome him to the team. THE WATERMAN IS NOW IN THE HOUSE!!!!!

As a consequence water questions are welcome here as there will be an extensive water chapter in Mr. Wilson's upcoming book.

Finally I will be taking pictures of the water build and encouraging discussion as we proceed. We might even get some diagrams of some of the aspects of the discussion so far with Mr. Wilson.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Hi Peter

I see you tread so fast, when you put sps. lps, fish ? So i can see your tank COMPLETELY like Ching Cai Tank, He always show picture all the time so his fan can and always follow progress of his tank.

Thanks

Spsreeflover, I will be adding a lot of stuff to the reef but only after I have everything stable and ready. There is a little more work in the fish room first as well as some further discussion on the lighting. Then we will be jumping into the coral discussion but not until after the lights. ChingChai is a much better experienced reefer than I am so it will take me a little longer to catch up........

Peter

 

[Russter]

Things are looking great Peter! Congrats on adding Chago to your team. It seems like he has a wealth of knowlege on water systems and will only make "our tank" that much more amazing.

 

[SaraB]

Congrats on adding Chago to your team. It seems like he has a wealth of knowlege on water systems and will only make "our tank" that much more amazing.

Ditto, welcome Chago to the build. Hoping he can bridge the commercial to hobby gap and also help us with smaller systems build the best RO/DI that we can for our fish and corals!