Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr. Wilson:

Forgive me if I missed this along the way, but would you go into detail on your QT methods. Such as when you start specific chemical treatments (i.e. Copper, prazi), which brands of these meds you prefer, and for how many days/weeks you administer each. Do your QT methods depend on the specific species being treated or are the generally uniform ? Also, curious as to your thoughts of prazi before copper, vice versa, and/or overlapping the two meds. Thank you, Mr. Wilson, look forward to your thoughts regarding this topic
 
coralreefdoc said:
Mr. Wilson:

Forgive me if I missed this along the way, but would you go into detail on your QT methods. Such as when you start specific chemical treatments (i.e. Copper, prazi), which brands of these meds you prefer, and for how many days/weeks you administer each. Do your QT methods depend on the specific species being treated or are the generally uniform ? Also, curious as to your thoughts of prazi before copper, vice versa, and/or overlapping the two meds. Thank you, Mr. Wilson, look forward to your thoughts regarding this topic
Click to expand...

I don't have time for the whole story but I can give you the basics for now...

I use Seachem Cupramine or Mardel Copper Safe depending on availability. I use them in conjunction with other meds including praziquantel. It depends on the fish of course. Wrasse, gobies, blennies, sharks, rays etc. that are copper sensitive get quinoline and or metronidazole for protozoans like crypt and perkinsus. I use copper for three weeks, but in the case of laterally compressed fish like our idols, just two weeks then a week of antibiotics for secondary infections (neomycin & or chloramphenicol).

This is for QT, for HT I would add some malachite green for the first few days to aid breathing (clear gills). Two of the systems had the salinity dropped to 1.013 for two weeks, and back up to 1.025 over the last (third) week. I left the Idol tank at 1.025 because they had no signs of ich.

Stronger poisons like formalin are reserved for one hour baths and never added to the QT/Ht tanks. Nitrofurazone or nifurpirinol are alternative antibiotics that can be used for one hour baths at 10 x the normal dose. I shut off the Mars tank and turn it back on line an hour later to dilute the medication if netting the fish is deemed to be too injurious. Most medications are added specifically to tanks that are expected to have problems so they get a concentrated dose until the flow spreads the meds throughout the system.

One of the Idols is still thin. If it goes on any longer I will use a dewormer, such as piperazine, in the food.

A few of the fish have lymphocystis on the margins of the fins, but nothing that affects breathing or eating so I'll just wait it out.
 
One of the Idols is still thin. If it goes on any longer I will use a dewormer, such as piperazine, in the food.
Click to expand...

What dose would you use? Also perhaps metronidazole in the food to deal with protozoan parasites that may be living in the gut?

I use a product we have in South Africa called nemarid - seems to be levasimole based

MR Wilson -also perhaps you would know we have dog dewormer tablets called "Bob Martin 2 in 1 Dewormer Tablets", containing praziquantel and pyrantel embonate- It seems the majority of the tablet is Pyrantel embonate and a little bit of praziquantel- Is pyrantel fish safe?
 
Last edited:
kinlayan said:
What dose would you use? Also perhaps metronidazole in the food to deal with protozoan parasites that may be living in the gut?

I use a product we have in South Africa called nemarid - seems to be levasimole based

MR Wilson -also perhaps you would know we have dog dewormer tablets called "Bob Martin 2 in 1 Dewormer Tablets", containing praziquantel and pyrantel embonate- It seems the majority of the tablet is Pyrantel embonate and a little bit of praziquantel- Is pyrantel fish safe?
Click to expand...

The larder Idol is eating well, but not as much as the two smaller ones. We are trying to balance water quality in our new QT tank against adequate nutrition so feeding isn't as heavy as it could be in a more established system. I'll take a closer look today and if he isn't catching up with the others I'll start dosing the food.

I agree, metronidazole is another good addition to the food. Idols are usually reluctant feeders so I don't include medications in the food in the prophylactic protocol. The last thing I want to do is train a new fish to associate drugs with food. The naso tang doesn't appear to be eating at all so I will have to try some more tempting treats this week (algae, mussels, scallops etc.). I have at east 6 types of algae in there with him now. I will also try some garlic.

I believe pyrantel is reef safe. It causes paralysis in worms so you may lose some polychaeta & surpulidae sp. as well. As with levimosole, some worms may release toxins that could poison snails etc. so a water change, carbon and wet skimming would be a good idea, but the problem would not lie in the medication toxicity itself. If you are adding medications orally then it wouldn't have any impact on corals in such low doses anyway.
 
Peter forgive my indulgence. Mr Wilson what are your thoughts on aquavitro fuel. I have a very low nutrient system thanks to tlf npx bio pellets in their 550 reactor. i mean it is working so good that i feed atleast 1 cube of frozen food every day, and i don't even rinse it at all. I have no detectable nitrates or phosphate, and haven't since this reactor kicked in. i feel as though some added nutrients to the water column might help brighten my colors, but do you think the bio pellets would just filter that out as well. i even stopped doing water changes over 2mos ago to help, and still no nitrate. i know it seems crazy complaining about 0 nutrients, and there is an easy fix take the reactor offline but i like not having to do water changes. Is there any words of wisdom you could offer. should i just feed my fish even more. i know they wouldn't have a problem with that solution.

I would like you to know that i read this whole thread except for some of the omg your tank is awesome posts, but i always throughly read your posts. I consider you to be a master eventhough you probably don't see yourself that way. I value you opinion and would like to have you input on this if possible.

I have learned a great deal from this thread, and would like to thank you for your selfless dedication to this project as well as to the reefing community that you have touched. Lastly to Peter thank you for taking this on, and being so willing to share with all of us. (warts and all):lolspin: I want you to know that you have profoundly changed my upcoming build for the good. The things i have learned in this thread will undoubtedly benefit me in the future, for that i am greatful.

Thank you Peter from all of us

Brent
 
Last edited:
bboudreaux said:
Peter forgive my indulgence. Mr Wilson what are your thoughts on aquavitro fuel. I have a very low nutrient system thanks to tlf npx bio pellets in their 550 reactor. i mean it is working so good that i feed atleast 1 cube of frozen food every day, and i don't even rinse it at all. I have no detectable nitrates or phosphate, and haven't since this reactor kicked in. i feel as though some added nutrients to the water column might help brighten my colors, but do you think the bio pellets would just filter that out as well. i even stopped doing water changes over 2mos ago to help, and still no nitrate. i know it seems crazy complaining about 0 nutrients, and there is an easy fix take the reactor offline but i like not having to do water changes. Is there any words of wisdom you could offer. should i just feed my fish even more. i know they wouldn't have a problem with that solution.

I would like you to know that i read this whole thread except for some of the omg your tank is awesome posts, but i always throughly read your posts. I consider you to be a master eventhough you probably don't see yourself that way. I value you opinion and would like to have you input on this if possible.

I have learned a great deal from this thread, and would like to thank you for your selfless dedication to this project as well as to the reefing community that you have touched. Lastly to Peter thank you for taking this on, and being so willing to share with all of us. (warts and all):lolspin: I want you to know that you have profoundly changed my upcoming build for the good. The things i have learned in this thread will undoubtedly benefit me in the future, for that i am greatful.

Thank you Peter from all of us

Brent
Click to expand...

While Seachem is a reputable company, I don't put much value in Aquavitro fuel. There is a small quantity of amino acids in it, but not enough to be worth the trouble. Other than that, it's a bunch of heavy metals that are likely in excess in your tank already. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a poor method of adding carbon as it is photodegradable and hydrophobic. They claim is has carbohydrates so I assume there is some glucose as well?

We aren't dosing any form of carbon and we do not use NP pellets. The No3 has always been 1-3ppm and Po4 has always been zero (probably due to GFO). Peter will be able to answer better, but I think he is feeding the equivalent of 40 cubes per day (rinsed). We have virtually no nuisance algae growth.

The general idea is to increase feeding until you reach a point where organic nutrient import increases inorganic nutrient levels (No3 & Po4), and or nuisance algae becomes a problem. Algae is natures test kit :) I read where people are dosing nitrate and phosphate, but it is far more efficient to feed corals with "whole foods". We feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Golden Pearls, Reef Roids, Cyclops, oyster eggs and phytoplankton. Our greatest limitation is Peter's time to do all of the rinsing and feeding. One of our goals is to move to an automated feeding system for dry, wet, and frozen foods.

If you want to experiment with chemicals, buy a premium amino acid additive. This may give you better colours and polyp extension. LED lighting has helped the colour in Peter's tank immensely.
 
mr.wilson said:
While Seachem is a reputable company, I don't put much value in Aquavitro fuel. There is a small quantity of amino acids in it, but not enough to be worth the trouble. Other than that, it's a bunch of heavy metals that are likely in excess in your tank already. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a poor method of adding carbon as it is photodegradable and hydrophobic. They claim is has carbohydrates so I assume there is some glucose as well?

We aren't dosing any form of carbon and we do not use NP pellets. The No3 has always been 1-3ppm and Po4 has always been zero (probably due to GFO). Peter will be able to answer better, but I think he is feeding the equivalent of 40 cubes per day (rinsed). We have virtually no nuisance algae growth.

The general idea is to increase feeding until you reach a point where organic nutrient import increases inorganic nutrient levels (No3 & Po4), and or nuisance algae becomes a problem. Algae is natures test kit :) I read where people are dosing nitrate and phosphate, but it is far more efficient to feed corals with "whole foods". We feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Golden Pearls, Reef Roids, Cyclops, oyster eggs and phytoplankton. Our greatest limitation is Peter's time to do all of the rinsing and feeding. One of our goals is to move to an automated feeding system for dry, wet, and frozen foods.

If you want to experiment with chemicals, buy a premium amino acid additive. This may give you better colours and polyp extension. LED lighting has helped the colour in Peter's tank immensely.
Click to expand...

Do you believe the same thing of the Red Sea Reef Energy A and B? I too have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4's, i've been feeding like crazy lately and took my GFO off line to try and get some levels of NO3 and PO4. I was thinking about trying the Reef Energy so i don't have to feed as much, my fish are getting a little obese :)
 
I don't consider Red Sea products to be of premium quality.

I've never tried them, but Fauna Marin has some amino acid products. I honestly don't know the difference between these popular products and the common (much cheaper) body building amino acid supplements.
 
mr.wilson said:
While Seachem is a reputable company, I don't put much value in Aquavitro fuel. There is a small quantity of amino acids in it, but not enough to be worth the trouble. Other than that, it's a bunch of heavy metals that are likely in excess in your tank already. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a poor method of adding carbon as it is photodegradable and hydrophobic. They claim is has carbohydrates so I assume there is some glucose as well?

We aren't dosing any form of carbon and we do not use NP pellets. The No3 has always been 1-3ppm and Po4 has always been zero (probably due to GFO). Peter will be able to answer better, but I think he is feeding the equivalent of 40 cubes per day (rinsed). We have virtually no nuisance algae growth.

The general idea is to increase feeding until you reach a point where organic nutrient import increases inorganic nutrient levels (No3 & Po4), and or nuisance algae becomes a problem. Algae is natures test kit :) I read where people are dosing nitrate and phosphate, but it is far more efficient to feed corals with "whole foods". We feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Golden Pearls, Reef Roids, Cyclops, oyster eggs and phytoplankton. Our greatest limitation is Peter's time to do all of the rinsing and feeding. One of our goals is to move to an automated feeding system for dry, wet, and frozen foods.

If you want to experiment with chemicals, buy a premium amino acid additive. This may give you better colours and polyp extension. LED lighting has helped the colour in Peter's tank immensely.
Click to expand...

i appreciate your thoughts, and i will increase my feeding regime. i forgot to mention my main concern about that product. i read several reviews where people spoke of their dropping orp levels, and this concerned me. i don't have a high bio load in my tank right now, but i do have 7 small fish in a 70g system. just don't want to lose any fish to depleted o2 levels.

thanks again sir
 
mr.wilson said:
While Seachem is a reputable company, I don't put much value in Aquavitro fuel. There is a small quantity of amino acids in it, but not enough to be worth the trouble. Other than that, it's a bunch of heavy metals that are likely in excess in your tank already. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a poor method of adding carbon as it is photodegradable and hydrophobic. They claim is has carbohydrates so I assume there is some glucose as well?

We aren't dosing any form of carbon and we do not use NP pellets. The No3 has always been 1-3ppm and Po4 has always been zero (probably due to GFO). Peter will be able to answer better, but I think he is feeding the equivalent of 40 cubes per day (rinsed). We have virtually no nuisance algae growth.

The general idea is to increase feeding until you reach a point where organic nutrient import increases inorganic nutrient levels (No3 & Po4), and or nuisance algae becomes a problem. Algae is natures test kit :) I read where people are dosing nitrate and phosphate, but it is far more efficient to feed corals with "whole foods". We feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Golden Pearls, Reef Roids, Cyclops, oyster eggs and phytoplankton. Our greatest limitation is Peter's time to do all of the rinsing and feeding. One of our goals is to move to an automated feeding system for dry, wet, and frozen foods.

If you want to experiment with chemicals, buy a premium amino acid additive. This may give you better colours and polyp extension. LED lighting has helped the colour in Peter's tank immensely.
Click to expand...

Hi Mr. Wilson. I have not been able to participate much lately on here due to business and family restraints but I returned right at a post which has generated alot of interest to me and given me successes and pains in the butt too.
I agree with you that carbon dosing is not really necessary when nitrates and phosphates are low. I have installed some pellet systems with low n and p because the client felt that the coral would profit by the extra bacteria.
I like you, doubt that might not be as effective as feeding the corals as you have stated above
In some systems introducing the pellets has caused a major outbreak in bryopsis which takes quite a bit of maintenance to get rid of. In most of those cases I have had to run phosban reactors along with the pellets to get
some control back on it.
I believe the idea of the pellets was the bacteria source of carbon(pellets) were contained outside of the system. However evidence of cyano strings in some tanks makes me believe differently.
I have also been informed that use of sugar can causes problems with some corals.
I'm glad I ran into this post---thanks
In hindsight I think the vodka dosing is the way to go, keeping a little for oneself:lolspin:
 
capn_hylinur said:
Hi Mr. Wilson. I have not been able to participate much lately on here due to business and family restraints but I returned right at a post which has generated alot of interest to me and given me successes and pains in the butt too.
Click to expand...

We haven't heard from you in so long that we figured you were shackled up in restraints by someone:)

capn_hylinur said:
I agree with you that carbon dosing is not really necessary when nitrates and phosphates are low. I have installed some pellet systems with low n and p because the client felt that the coral would profit by the extra bacteria.
I like you, doubt that might not be as effective as feeding the corals as you have stated above
In some systems introducing the pellets has caused a major outbreak in bryopsis which takes quite a bit of maintenance to get rid of. In most of those cases I have had to run phosban reactors along with the pellets to get
some control back on it.
I believe the idea of the pellets was the bacteria source of carbon(pellets) were contained outside of the system. However evidence of cyano strings in some tanks makes me believe differently.
I have also been informed that use of sugar can causes problems with some corals.
I'm glad I ran into this post---thanks
In hindsight I think the vodka dosing is the way to go, keeping a little for oneself:lolspin:
Click to expand...

One for me, one for the tank:)

Your timing is perfect. We just went from 0 phosphate to 0.5 in one week. At first we suspected the new Golden Pearls food, or the addition of three very large tangs, so I tested the food in it is loaded with Po4. Just for fun I tested the other foods (Reef Roids & decapsulated artemia) and they proved to be loaded with phosphate too, so the new food theory was out the window.

The GFO was due to be changed so I swapped it and the carbon out today. I suspect that the Po4 will be back down to zero in a few days. It goes to show that GFO is doing a lot more work than I had given it credit for. With the new fish, I have been doing major water changes using display water so that should have kept Po4 down. Nitrate is still zero, and algae is still very limited in the tank. Usually algae blooms are the cue to high nutrient levels, but I learned a new lesson today.
 
mr.wilson said:
While Seachem is a reputable company, I don't put much value in Aquavitro fuel. There is a small quantity of amino acids in it, but not enough to be worth the trouble. Other than that, it's a bunch of heavy metals that are likely in excess in your tank already. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a poor method of adding carbon as it is photodegradable and hydrophobic. They claim is has carbohydrates so I assume there is some glucose as well?

We aren't dosing any form of carbon and we do not use NP pellets. The No3 has always been 1-3ppm and Po4 has always been zero (probably due to GFO). Peter will be able to answer better, but I think he is feeding the equivalent of 40 cubes per day (rinsed). We have virtually no nuisance algae growth.

The general idea is to increase feeding until you reach a point where organic nutrient import increases inorganic nutrient levels (No3 & Po4), and or nuisance algae becomes a problem. Algae is natures test kit :) I read where people are dosing nitrate and phosphate, but it is far more efficient to feed corals with "whole foods". We feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, Golden Pearls, Reef Roids, Cyclops, oyster eggs and phytoplankton. Our greatest limitation is Peter's time to do all of the rinsing and feeding. One of our goals is to move to an automated feeding system for dry, wet, and frozen foods.

If you want to experiment with chemicals, buy a premium amino acid additive. This may give you better colours and polyp extension. LED lighting has helped the colour in Peter's tank immensely.
Click to expand...

Ascorbic acid is extremely hydrophilic. Additionally, being in solution in an aquarium greatly reduces the rate at which it oxidizes. I am looking for a non-EBSCO sources now for that last bit.

Drug store amino acids that are intended for bodybuilders will be heavy on BCAA (leucine, isoleucine, and valine). Fauna Marin's amino acid blends omit completely leucine and isoleucine. I would not recommend repurposing bodybuilding amino acid supplements for use in aquaria.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Jyetman
Please help
Replies
9
Views
324
Jyetman
Jyetman
U
New build
Replies
3
Views
331
griss
griss
cilyjr
Cilyjr 320 gallon on the central coast
Replies
12
Views
569
rogerwilco357
rogerwilco357
C
Filter inlet and outlet at the opposite bottoms?
Replies
1
Views
144
Vinny Kreyling
Vinny Kreyling
Tamara Marshall
Comprehensive Article About Bubble Algae - Manta Systems Article
Replies
0
Views
90
Tamara Marshall
Tamara Marshall
Back
Top