Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[danielcherian]

Peter

I also think it is important to bring up the issue of the way you accomplish flow in your tank. I have always totally discounted the flow produced by the return pump in terms of the amount of turnover in a large reef tank for 2 reasons:

1. The flow from a return pump is entirely uni-directional.

Uni-directional flow is not typical flow pattern found on a reef in the wild and tends to work towards blowing the particulate food matter past corals rather than swirling the food around the coral.

Also, part of the benefit of erratic flow in a reef tank is that the coral (meaning the zooxanthellae within the coral) do respire and thus a layer of CO2 (normally a few microns thick) tends to envelop the coral structure itself. Uni-directional flow removes CO2 from only one portion of the coral structure while erratic flow encompasses the entire coral's structure, thus ensuring proper respiration.

I agree. Like a powerful return pump, a powerful closed loop also leads to similar problems if isn't plumbed in such a way as to prevent this type of flow pattern. The OM units, albeit with their own share of problems, remain a good way to achieve random flow. The type of output used, like the Vertex Mocean or Sea Swirls will also help to achieve the intended effect, but these units are not useful for a CL with its outputs at the bottom of the tank. As others have indicated, the use of powerheads are probably a sufficient means of making the water flow random, even with a moderate closed loop/return pump.

Peter, will the top of the tank be enclosed by a canopy? Have you considered a separate CL with its outputs at the top of the tank? A few Sea Swirl or Mocean units would be very useful in a tank of these dimensions. I believe the Mocean units can rotate 360 degrees...something to consider. I personally don't find them to be too obtrusive (since my tank is only 3-side viewable), but others may disagree. Perhaps a little less traditional...if you converted all of the CL holes on the bottom of the tank to drains, you could plumb the outputs to be on the top of the tank...the main benefit here would be that detritus gets taken back to the top of the water column.

 

[Rybren]

Peter,

I only have a year or so of reefing under my belt and have no experience with large systems, so I'm not qualified to comment on any of the technical aspects of your build. I do, however, wish to congratulate you on your openess and willingness to share your build with us.

You are obviously a visionary and have a great deal of creativity and imagination. I am sure that these qualities alone will help you overcome any of the issues that will certainly arise as this build progresses.

Your build is both an inspiration and motivator for those of us who are struggling with our own builds, albeit on a (much) smaller scale.

Thank you, good luck, and know that we, as a reefing community, are pulling for you.

Jerry

 

[dahenley]

i know people are giving you TONS of advice, and there is a lot to learn...... (i learn every day as well)

i will say that if you have the time, you could look into "Energys thread" its the 1700g stingray reef. he has taken it down not to long ago to pursue some other things. he still has the tank, but he will be one of those people that "Have had a large tank" and you might just see what he has to say.
here is his original thread (he doesnt chime in until later.)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689929

his new thread to what he is doing is here.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/43615-large-vivarium-questions.html

he still comes around RC every now and then, but i think he is much more active on the Dendroboard. he is in construction, so it might take a day or two to get back with you. his tank was 15feet long 5feet deep and 30 something tall. he had to deal with flow and he didnt use a closed loop.

i hope this helps

david

 

[nineball]

All this talk about flow got me thinking about the vortechs and the 3/4'' limitations....why not if you decide on these just drill out the acrylic a little where each powerhead will go(to the required 3/4'' or a little less) and recess one of the 2(or both I guess) sides of the powerhead....I wouldn't think this would affect the structural integrity of your tank in any way.

I could be totally forgetting something, but just a thought I didn't see anyone else suggest.

rwynn, I seem to remember this alternative being discussed in another thread and the conclusion was that in fact that it could affect the integrity of the tank so the risk would not be worth it. I can understand it a bit as it would be difficult to predict all the activity or devices that may be at work and pressures from shifting the water column around might get stress fractures and everything I have read suggests that is a very bad thing in the long run.....:sad2:

Peter

 

[nineball]

Nice work!!! And kool tank

Far out, thank you, and I agree!!!!!!

Peter

 

[nineball]

every separate reservoir in your system will collect detritus and require cleaning, either by hand or with a pump to blow it up and keep it in the water column, the mars system of individual tanks will probably be a detritus trap with resulting high nitrates and phosphates, IMO

Armed with my new found knowledge about RDSB's I figure that will be manageable. Oh that and a modicum of humour............

Peter

 

[nineball]

Hello! New to the thread, and fascinated by watching this come together



Anything not purpose made for aquarium use would be highly suspect, as there could be components made out of brass or other undesirable metals exposed to the water.

Thank you, welcome to our group. I'm pretty sure Vic would know that but its a good catch that that fact might escape me!!!!! Thank you.

Peter

 

[nineball]

yes, it's called quicksand, but I wouldn't go near it

My cat? Where is my cat? She thought it was kitty litter!!!!!!! Here Kitty Kitty Kitty........

Peter

 

[nineball]

I agree. Like a powerful return pump, a powerful closed loop also leads to similar problems if isn't plumbed in such a way as to prevent this type of flow pattern. The OM units, albeit with their own share of problems, remain a good way to achieve random flow. The type of output used, like the Vertex Mocean or Sea Swirls will also help to achieve the intended effect, but these units are not useful for a CL with its outputs at the bottom of the tank. As others have indicated, the use of powerheads are probably a sufficient means of making the water flow random, even with a moderate closed loop/return pump.

Peter, will the top of the tank be enclosed by a canopy? Have you considered a separate CL with its outputs at the top of the tank? A few Sea Swirl or Mocean units would be very useful in a tank of these dimensions. I believe the Mocean units can rotate 360 degrees...something to consider. I personally don't find them to be too obtrusive (since my tank is only 3-side viewable), but others may disagree. Perhaps a little less traditional...if you converted all of the CL holes on the bottom of the tank to drains, you could plumb the outputs to be on the top of the tank...the main benefit here would be that detritus gets taken back to the top of the water column.

Yes there will be a canopy, its being cured as we speak. And we are looking at a number of options including segmentation of the tank into a number of CL systems......I'm still waiting for some additional data, which I will pass along to everyone as soon as I get it.

This is truly a community effort and I appreciate it very much. This will be our tank in the truest sense.

Peter

 

[nineball]

Peter,

I only have a year or so of reefing under my belt and have no experience with large systems, so I'm not qualified to comment on any of the technical aspects of your build. I do, however, wish to congratulate you on your openess and willingness to share your build with us.

You are obviously a visionary and have a great deal of creativity and imagination. I am sure that these qualities alone will help you overcome any of the issues that will certainly arise as this build progresses.

Your build is both an inspiration and motivator for those of us who are struggling with our own builds, albeit on a (much) smaller scale.

Thank you, good luck, and know that we, as a reefing community, are pulling for you.

Jerry

Thanks Jerry. I should tell you that I came to this party with an aquarium slightly smaller than a coffee mug (acrylic). I accidentally dropped into Chingchai's thread one day and the rest is history. So be careful how much time you spend here. it could be very dangerous to your health and pocketbook.

On a serious note I am truly overwhelmed and grateful for your support.

Peter

 

[nineball]

i know people are giving you TONS of advice, and there is a lot to learn...... (i learn every day as well)

i will say that if you have the time, you could look into "Energys thread" its the 1700g stingray reef. he has taken it down not to long ago to pursue some other things. he still has the tank, but he will be one of those people that "Have had a large tank" and you might just see what he has to say.
here is his original thread (he doesnt chime in until later.)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689929

his new thread to what he is doing is here.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/43615-large-vivarium-questions.html

he still comes around RC every now and then, but i think he is much more active on the Dendroboard. he is in construction, so it might take a day or two to get back with you. his tank was 15feet long 5feet deep and 30 something tall. he had to deal with flow and he didnt use a closed loop.

i hope this helps

david

David, I have followed this thread and I can't believe what he did to shift gears so dramatically with such high standards evident with both builds. I'm pretty sure he would look at what I am doing and suggest that I turn this whole thing into a hot tub.........or a sushi bar!!!

Peter

 

[dahenley]

David, I have followed this thread and I can't believe what he did to shift gears so dramatically with such high standards evident with both builds. I'm pretty sure he would look at what I am doing and suggest that I turn this whole thing into a hot tub.........or a sushi bar!!!

Peter

I have pm's him and talked a bit with him and he might go back to a reef but he originally had this stuff before and wanted a break from the electric company. He still has tons of info and it might be worth a pm.

Good luck and I will be following

 

[Moser]

rwynn, I seem to remember this alternative being discussed in another thread and the conclusion was that in fact that it could affect the integrity of the tank so the risk would not be worth it. I can understand it a bit as it would be difficult to predict all the activity or devices that may be at work and pressures from shifting the water column around might get stress fractures and everything I have read suggests that is a very bad thing in the long run.....:sad2:

Peter

What you need is a 200 000 l/h (approx 50000 gallons/hr) stream pump like the one I ordered from Germany.....

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3243788&postcount=1946

Hide it in a custom made reef rock and it'll do your whole tank and be invisible as well!.

It has instant up and down flow. You can go from 0 to 50000 G/h in a fraction of a second. GHL control. or 0-10v if you have a controller for that.

You can also run multiple pumps from one controller.

I decided against my 8 Vortech's in the end.....

This thing works on another level. It has massive wave control functions too!.

:dance:

Mo

 

[Fish Fondue]

What you need is a 200 000 l/h (approx 50000 gallons/hr) stream pump like the one I ordered from Germany.....

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3243788&postcount=1946

Hide it in a custom made reef rock and it'll do your whole tank and be invisible as well!.

It has instant up and down flow. You can go from 0 to 50000 G/h in a fraction of a second. GHL control. or 0-10v if you have a controller for that.

You can also run multiple pumps from one controller.

I decided against my 8 Vortech's in the end.....

This thing works on another level. It has massive wave control functions too!.

:dance:

Mo

Mo stop posting and get filling that tank:hammer:

(Ridgeway)

 

[golf nut]

What you need is a 200 000 l/h (approx 50000 gallons/hr) stream pump like the one I ordered from Germany.....

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3243788&postcount=1946

Hide it in a custom made reef rock and it'll do your whole tank and be invisible as well!.

It has instant up and down flow. You can go from 0 to 50000 G/h in a fraction of a second. GHL control. or 0-10v if you have a controller for that.

You can also run multiple pumps from one controller.

I decided against my 8 Vortech's in the end.....



This thing works on another level. It has massive wave control functions too!.

:dance:

Mo

I have a need for a 50,000 gallon per hour pump, can you link me to one?

 

[Moser]

I have a need for a 50,000 gallon per hour pump, can you link me to one?

pm'd...

Mo

 

[Moser]

Mo stop posting and get filling that tank:hammer:

(Ridgeway)

:lol:

Mo

 

[shroutk3]

rwynn, I seem to remember this alternative being discussed in another thread and the conclusion was that in fact that it could affect the integrity of the tank so the risk would not be worth it. I can understand it a bit as it would be difficult to predict all the activity or devices that may be at work and pressures from shifting the water column around might get stress fractures and everything I have read suggests that is a very bad thing in the long run.....:sad2:

Peter

I have to say that I love what you're doing here. As far as flow I wouldn't drill down the acryllic for vortechs, but I have seen this done before:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1777135

You would basically mount the dry side inside the tank in watertight boxes (over flow or other) not sure if this is an option for you, but I really haven't heard good things about closed loops. Also look at putting penductors on your returns to increase the amount of flow created.

I'm also a fan of dump tanks and don't mind the bubbles at all- it looks really natural.

HTH

 

[nineball]

:lol:

Mo

Mo, how much do you think I need to be concerned about stress with this pump?

If its not an issue then it seriously could be the answer.

I assume that the current flow dynamics would still be ok in the background or does this fit in the closed loop....somehow?

Peter

 

[nineball]

Mo stop posting and get filling that tank:hammer:

(Ridgeway)

Fish Fondue, leave the man alone..........can't you see he needs to put his procrastination in a charitable context. He is helping those less fortunate. :sad2:

Continue Mo....... before we were rudely interrupted!!!:lolspin:

Peter