Coralline Algae dissapearing

[mtait]

This is my first ever post, so I hope I am doing this right. I have a 90 gallon saltwater tank with a 20g sump/refugium. It's mostly a FOWLR, but I am wanting to start adding some coral. I have one so far. The past few weeks the purple algae on my rocks has just been disappearing. In addition to that, it is not spreading to the new rocks I put in the tank. I was told that low calcium can cause that, but I just tested and I am high, close to 600ppm. (30 drops with the standard 5ml test kit) I checked Carbonate Hardness and the tube turned yellow at about the 8th drop, which I believe is a little low, so I just added a cap full of reef builder. My tank seems clean and healthy otherwise.

I have included some pics. Any ideas?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

If PO4 gets a bit high that can be detrimental for coralline growth, so too no3.

Do you have an urchin? I think they eat coralline?

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

Can you post your actual numbers for calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, pH and temp. It's difficult to maintain proper calcium and alk if the magnesium is low.

 

[RioReefr]

Everything I have read/researched about Coralline Algae....is that you need to keep the water parameters as STABLE as Natural Seawater:

Salinity: 1.025-1.026
pH: 8.3
Calcium: 450
dKh: 8
Nitrates/Phosphates: as close to 0 as possible.
Lighting: preferably blue spectrum wavelength
Temperature: 80 F

Supposedly, pH and Salinity are the most important to keep very stable. Being summertime, are you are using an ATO to keep Salinity stable?

The other thing is flow and detritus buildup -- use a turkey baster or point your powerhead at the rocks containing the coralline. Detritus buildup could be suffocating it.

The likely cause is that water parameters are probably fluctuating too much.

 

[Uncle99]

Alk 8-9
Calcium 420-440
Magnisum 1350

These must be maintained consistently for corals and coraline algae to build (grow) at all times
Stability is the key, do not underestimate the need for accurate Magnism, if this is low then your CA and Alk will just bind up and will not be as available to the coral Skelton or coraline algae.

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

Alk 8-9
Calcium 420-440
Magnisum 1350

These must be maintained consistently for corals and coraline algae to build (grow) at all times
Stability is the key, do not underestimate the need for accurate Magnism, if this is low then your CA and Alk will just bind up and will not be as available to the coral Skelton or coraline algae.

Yes, this. A lot of folks skip testing magnesium and end up chasing calcium and alkalinity wondering why they can't maintain stable numbers. Test and dose magnesium until you get it up around 1350 then adjust your calc and alk accordingly.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

IME, stability of alk, mag & cal is something to aim for but it is not important for coralline algae growth. As long as they are at least at minimum levels coralline will grow, unless PO4 is too high. This will inhibit calcification.

I didn't have a doser, alk & cal constantly up & down, yet I had coralline growing all over the place.

My bare bottom

 

[mtait]

So it looks like my problem is very high PO4.

Calcium, Magnesium, and Alkalinity all seemed OK. Salinity at 1.24.

What I can't figure out is why my PO4 is so high. I have a protein skimmer, refugium with spaghetti algae, I do water changes, I don't think I over feed, and my fish seem healthy.

I'm wondering if my sump is actually hurting me. Can a dirty sump/refugium do more harm then good? I have a lot of detritus at the bottom of mine because the way the stand is built it can't be removed for a good cleaning. I was hoping that gunk down there wouldn't have such a big effect, but it's the only thing I can think of. Does that sound reasonable to you pros out there?

Second question, is it OK to put a bag of carbon in a filter sock in the sump? I've read that it can bleed particles into the tank that are harmful for the fish. Other than cleaning my sump, and water changes, what would be the best options for PO4 reduction?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

So it looks like my problem is very high PO4.

Calcium, Magnesium, and Alkalinity all seemed OK. Salinity at 1.24.

What I can't figure out is why my PO4 is so high. I have a protein skimmer, refugium with spaghetti algae, I do water changes, I don't think I over feed, and my fish seem healthy.

I'm wondering if my sump is actually hurting me. Can a dirty sump/refugium do more harm then good? I have a lot of detritus at the bottom of mine because the way the stand is built it can't be removed for a good cleaning. I was hoping that gunk down there wouldn't have such a big effect, but it's the only thing I can think of. Does that sound reasonable to you pros out there?

Second question, is it OK to put a bag of carbon in a filter sock in the sump? I've read that it can bleed particles into the tank that are harmful for the fish. Other than cleaning my sump, and water changes, what would be the best options for PO4 reduction?

I'd ask how old you aquarium is. Young tanks can have problems with PO4 leaching out of rock untill they mature.

Use a PO4 reducing product.

Yes activated carbon in a sock is ok.

 

[AlSimmons]

IME, stability of alk, mag & cal is something to aim for but it is not important for coralline algae growth. As long as they are at least at minimum levels coralline will grow, unless PO4 is too high. This will inhibit calcification.

I didn't have a doser, alk & cal constantly up & down, yet I had coralline growing all over the place.

My bare bottom

+1

Coralline algae has never been a problem for me, whether I was testing/dosing for it or not. It's just there... (blue thumb?)

 

[RioReefr]

... my fish seem healthy.

Fish are very resilient, so that is not a good indicator of water chemistry. Unless you have a lack of oxygen in the water , most fish could probably tolerate a wide range of water parameters. Coralline algae is far less tolerant.


Get as much "gunk" out of your system as possible. Rocks, sediments, crap all contain phosphorous and will release it into your water. I read where even activated carbon (over time) can actually be detrimental to your tank because it will also leech phosphorous. If you have large rocks, they can leech phosphorous into your system for months.

If you want to lower your PO4 levels, you could try Seachem PhosGuard. Also, when I had a serious GHA breakout, I had really good success using RedSea NoPoX. Just be careful using as it and start out slow. Literally within 3-4 days, the GHA started to fade and died.

Additionally, since you have a refugium....put some Chaeto (or other form of macro-algae) in there which will suck up that PO4.

Lastly, you could send a water sample to a professional lab.... something like ATI ICP-OES Complete Saltwater Water Test Kit.

 

[WVfishguy]

No one mentioned light in this thread. Without bright light there is no coralline algae. That's the main factor in coralline.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

No one mentioned light in this thread. Without bright light there is no coralline algae. That's the main factor in coralline.

>> Bright << light isn't necessary.

I have coralline growing in areas that don't even recieve direct light.

 

[Anemone]

So it looks like my problem is very high PO4.

Care to share your actual number? "Very high PO4" is often dependent on one's opinion, and it's hard to give advice on what to do without actual numbers.

Kevin

 

[Anemone]

>> Bright << light isn't necessary.

Yup, different colors for different lighting levels.

Kevin

 

[Scrubber_steve]

>> Bright << light isn't necessary.

I have coralline growing in areas that don't even recieve direct light.

Further on light for coralline -
Chapter 1
Physiological and Photomorphogenic Effects
of Light on Marine Macrophytes
1.2 Photosynthesis Under Limiting Light Conditions
Seaweeds of the order Laminariales reach their lower growth limit at about 0.6"“1.2% of surface light, whereas for some deep growing rhodophytes a minimum of 0.001"“0.05% was determined (L€uning 1981, 1990).
The photosynthetic rate of different Laminaria species exceeds the respiratory rate and thus the compensation point (Ec) at about 5"“8 mmol m 2 s 1 , whereas in deep water red algae an irradiation of about 2 mmol m 2 s 1 is already sufficient (L€uning 1981).
Deepest crustose macroalgae seem to survive at an absolute light minimum of about 0.01 mmol m 2 s 1 (Littler et al. 1986). These red crustose corallines show a large light absorptance and employ light-harvesting pigments with a high energy-cost in their production per unit light absorption rate in a given underwater spectrum (Raven and Geider 2003).
Raven et al. (2000) outlined that it is difficult to explain growth of algae below 0.5 mmol m 2 s 1 as there are energy-consuming reactions which use an increasing fraction of energy input when photon flux density decreases. Among these processes are redox back reactions of reaction center II, the leakage of H+ through thylakoid membranes and the turnover of photosynthetic proteins. The first of the two processes limit the rate of linear electron transport and ADP phosphorylation, while the latter consumes ATP.
Thus, it is not yet clear how crustose red algae can grow down to 274-m water depth where the average incident photon flux density for 12 h day 1 does not exceed 0.02 mmol m 2 s 1 (Raven and Geider 2003).

file:///C:/Users/Steve/Downloads/9783642284502-c1.pdf

 

[las]

Every time I’ve experienced great corralline growth was when I had lower light levels with an actinic light incorporated into the lighting system. Just my experience. I even remember reading that some people would keep the actinics on 24 hours a day to get the process really going.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Everything I have read/researched about Coralline Algae....is that you need to keep the water parameters as STABLE as Natural Seawater:

Salinity: 1.025-1.026
pH: 8.3
Calcium: 450
dKh: 8
Nitrates/Phosphates: as close to 0 as possible.
Lighting: preferably blue spectrum wavelength
Temperature: 80 F

Supposedly, pH and Salinity are the most important to keep very stable. Being summertime, are you are using an ATO to keep Salinity stable?

The other thing is flow and detritus buildup -- use a turkey baster or point your powerhead at the rocks containing the coralline. Detritus buildup could be suffocating it.

The likely cause is that water parameters are probably fluctuating too much.

This is the 4th post in this thread.