1carpenter
Member
My bad thx for the direction!
Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method
- Thread starter snorvich
- Start date
Here is an excellent article on this transfer method. The article is many years old and I can't believe it hasn't been more widely distributed.
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/3daytransfer.html
I've been advocating this method for years on RC to mostly def ears... everyone wants a quick easy fix. Once you read the article it really makes sense why it works. This method is performed on all fish entering my tank even if they show no signs of ich in QT.
A few notes from my experience using this method...
I don't use any filtration... IMO They aren't in the water long enough for ammonia to build to toxic levels, even if it does, an ammonia neutralizer would suffice.
I do substantially drop the salinity to reduce stress on the fish. Not quite hypo but close.
I use Rubbermaid tubs with PVC pipes and fittings. They are very easy to clean and dry.
No need to sanitize anything. The act of being dry for 24 hrs kills any cysts.
Always use a smooth clear container to catch and transfer the fish... No Nets. Yes you will transfer some water, but you would have to transfer those same cysts at minimum twice before they would hatch... small chance in one cup of water out of 10 or 20 gallons.
Good luck! It's not as hard as it sounds.
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/3daytransfer.html
I've been advocating this method for years on RC to mostly def ears... everyone wants a quick easy fix. Once you read the article it really makes sense why it works. This method is performed on all fish entering my tank even if they show no signs of ich in QT.
A few notes from my experience using this method...
I don't use any filtration... IMO They aren't in the water long enough for ammonia to build to toxic levels, even if it does, an ammonia neutralizer would suffice.
I do substantially drop the salinity to reduce stress on the fish. Not quite hypo but close.
I use Rubbermaid tubs with PVC pipes and fittings. They are very easy to clean and dry.
No need to sanitize anything. The act of being dry for 24 hrs kills any cysts.
Always use a smooth clear container to catch and transfer the fish... No Nets. Yes you will transfer some water, but you would have to transfer those same cysts at minimum twice before they would hatch... small chance in one cup of water out of 10 or 20 gallons.
Good luck! It's not as hard as it sounds.
alaska clowns
New member
OK - What do you use for water circulation/aeration on the Rubbermaid tubs? I don't think an empty HOB filter would hang nicely on the edge for me; an air pump and stone, maybe?
Thank you!
Thank you!
hvacman250
New member
I use a HOB filter. On certain containers, it does want to wobble some. The container is close to a wall so the filter is supported partially by the back wall you place the container against.
A powerhead is also fine for water movement.
The only downfall to this treatment is cost and stress, but I feel its worth it for Ich. If you used a 10 gallon tank, 50 gallons isnt too bad; a 30 gallon tank for bigger fish (I use a 29 gallon) is 150 gallons, or ~$50 worth of salt to most people. When I do this treatment, I treat multiple fish to keep cost down.
alaska clowns
New member
Thanks hvacman. I'm going to give it a go this week - I started to try hypo, but I'm switching horses in the middle of the stream after losing confidence in my refractometer calibration, and then after reading about hypo-resistant ich. I guess there's a bright spot...now my costs may be cut a bit with my already-lower-than-usual salinity 
I just use a power head and heater. The lid to the Rubbermaid containers still snap on with the cords pinched in them. The contailers I use have some air vents in the handle area on the sides of the container so they aren't air tight. If thay are non-vented you may want to make some air vents in the lids.
Like I said before, the fish are only in the water for 3 days at a clip, so I don't worry about ammonia too much as they aren't in the water long enough for it to build to toxic levels (at least with my stocking levels).
The bigger problem is setting up a longer term QT with an ich free bio filter for the 8 week or so fallow period should one be needed. This is where you need to be carefull and really monitor ammonia and be ready for instant water changes.
Like I said before, the fish are only in the water for 3 days at a clip, so I don't worry about ammonia too much as they aren't in the water long enough for it to build to toxic levels (at least with my stocking levels).
The bigger problem is setting up a longer term QT with an ich free bio filter for the 8 week or so fallow period should one be needed. This is where you need to be carefull and really monitor ammonia and be ready for instant water changes.
The cost for me isn't too bad. I had ich on all my fish. I used this method on the inhabitants at the time and let the tank sit fallow for 10 weeks. Since then I have considered the tank "ich free".
I now use tank water for the treatment, and add the NSW to the display just as I would a water change, so in all actuallity I'm just doing more frequent water changes and not wasting anything.
BUT... (BIG BUT)...this only works for me because I am confident through previous treatments and a fallow period the display water is ich free.
Reefing Newbie
New member
I may be trying this method on my next additions. Two of the fish I have don't get along with each other so I can't put both through this (I may have two sub male fairy wrasses). Would it be possible to carry this process out with 2 20 gallon long aquariums knowing that I will have a purple tang being added down the road?
Tank transfer is very easy. The initial receiving tank is temp and SG adjusted to the bag water with SG a few points couple of points lower than the bag water is ok but it cannot be higher. This means there is no need for drip acclimation and does not result in prolonged stays in bag water where pH can rise and ammonia toxicity can increase once the bag is opened which is particularly important after prolonged stays in the bag.
The total tank transfer period requires 12 days. After every three day stay in the first tank, the fish is transfered on the morning of the fourth (and 7th and 10th) day to the next tank (two tanks are required, typically a 20 gallon tank times two). The first tank is then drained and cleaned and readied for the next transfer. During the 12 day tank transfer process ( 3 day stays 4 transfers) look for other maladies. Since there are no medications to interact with in the transfer tanks which contain freshly mixed salt water aged and aerated overnight , an ammonia detoxifier is used during each 3 day period. Bound copper products for example can't be safely used with ammonia detoxifiers as more toxic free copper occurs with lethal copper toxicity, even though total copper measures the same.
If there is reason to suspect infestation with brooklynellosis, velvet or flukes , do a formalin bath before starting a treatment with copper for velvet, formalin for brooklynellosis or prazipro for flukes.
Since not all maladies will present symptoms in the 12 days( flukes can easily be missed ), use a larger cycled QT tank for an additional 2 to 4 weeks of observation depending on the condition of the fish with treatment as necessary.
Most fish receive no medications yet all are effectively prophylactically treated for cryptocaryon irritans (ich),the most common killer
Ammonia is monitored and has never been an issue during the 3 day stay but a detoxifier is added just in case, The cycled tank takes care of itself.
BTW there is no need to worry about nitrite or nitrate.
The total tank transfer period requires 12 days. After every three day stay in the first tank, the fish is transfered on the morning of the fourth (and 7th and 10th) day to the next tank (two tanks are required, typically a 20 gallon tank times two). The first tank is then drained and cleaned and readied for the next transfer. During the 12 day tank transfer process ( 3 day stays 4 transfers) look for other maladies. Since there are no medications to interact with in the transfer tanks which contain freshly mixed salt water aged and aerated overnight , an ammonia detoxifier is used during each 3 day period. Bound copper products for example can't be safely used with ammonia detoxifiers as more toxic free copper occurs with lethal copper toxicity, even though total copper measures the same.
If there is reason to suspect infestation with brooklynellosis, velvet or flukes , do a formalin bath before starting a treatment with copper for velvet, formalin for brooklynellosis or prazipro for flukes.
Since not all maladies will present symptoms in the 12 days( flukes can easily be missed ), use a larger cycled QT tank for an additional 2 to 4 weeks of observation depending on the condition of the fish with treatment as necessary.
Most fish receive no medications yet all are effectively prophylactically treated for cryptocaryon irritans (ich),the most common killer
Ammonia is monitored and has never been an issue during the 3 day stay but a detoxifier is added just in case, The cycled tank takes care of itself.
BTW there is no need to worry about nitrite or nitrate.
Tank transfer is very easy. The initial receiving tank is temp and SG adjusted to the bag water with SG a few points couple of points lower than the bag water is ok but it cannot be higher. This means there is no need for drip acclimation and does not result in prolonged stays in bag water where pH can rise and ammonia toxicity can increase once the bag is opened which is particularly important after prolonged stays in the bag.
The total tank transfer period requires 12 days. After every three day stay in the first tank, the fish is transfered on the morning of the fourth (and 7th and 10th) day to the next tank (two tanks are required, typically a 20 gallon tank times two). The first tank is then drained and cleaned and readied for the next transfer. During the 12 day tank transfer process ( 3 day stays 4 transfers) look for other maladies. Since there are no medications to interact with in the transfer tanks which contain freshly mixed salt water aged and aerated overnight , an ammonia detoxifier is used during each 3 day period. Bound copper products for example can't be safely used with ammonia detoxifiers as more toxic free copper occurs with lethal copper toxicity, even though total copper measures the same.
If there is reason to suspect infestation with brooklynellosis, velvet or flukes , do a formalin bath before starting a treatment with copper for velvet, formalin for brooklynellosis or prazipro for flukes.
Since not all maladies will present symptoms in the 12 days( flukes can easily be missed ), use a larger cycled QT tank for an additional 2 to 4 weeks of observation depending on the condition of the fish with treatment as necessary.
Most fish receive no medications yet all are effectively prophylactically treated for cryptocaryon irritans (ich),the most common killer
Ammonia is monitored and has never been an issue during the 3 day stay but a detoxifier is added just in case, The cycled tank takes care of itself.
BTW there is no need to worry about nitrite or nitrate.
The total tank transfer period requires 12 days. After every three day stay in the first tank, the fish is transfered on the morning of the fourth (and 7th and 10th) day to the next tank (two tanks are required, typically a 20 gallon tank times two). The first tank is then drained and cleaned and readied for the next transfer. During the 12 day tank transfer process ( 3 day stays 4 transfers) look for other maladies. Since there are no medications to interact with in the transfer tanks which contain freshly mixed salt water aged and aerated overnight , an ammonia detoxifier is used during each 3 day period. Bound copper products for example can't be safely used with ammonia detoxifiers as more toxic free copper occurs with lethal copper toxicity, even though total copper measures the same.
If there is reason to suspect infestation with brooklynellosis, velvet or flukes , do a formalin bath before starting a treatment with copper for velvet, formalin for brooklynellosis or prazipro for flukes.
Since not all maladies will present symptoms in the 12 days( flukes can easily be missed ), use a larger cycled QT tank for an additional 2 to 4 weeks of observation depending on the condition of the fish with treatment as necessary.
Most fish receive no medications yet all are effectively prophylactically treated for cryptocaryon irritans (ich),the most common killer
Ammonia is monitored and has never been an issue during the 3 day stay but a detoxifier is added just in case, The cycled tank takes care of itself.
BTW there is no need to worry about nitrite or nitrate.
adikira
New member
My fish got ich (or at least I believe so).
I'm considering the multitank fish transfer method while keeping the display empty. I moved almost all my fish to a separate tank (a rather small 20 gal compared to the 187 gal DT) except the marine betta and GSM that I couldn't catch yet.
Two questions, somewhat related tot he multi trank transfer method (let me know if they are not related enough to this topic and I should instead open a new thread for this).
1) do you think that covering the bottom of the tank with some kind of sheet or something and pulling it out after 3 days and putting a new one instead would work as an alternative to transferring the fish to a new tank? I'd assume the Ich would attach to them when dropping off the fish and removing the sheet would also remove the Ich cysts.
I'm not sure how strong their attachment is, if by just pulling the sheet out they would fall off and maybe get in the water current (maybe stop all pumps/powerheads) and then on the bottom.
2) This brings me to the second question. If the ich cysts are not too well attached to the bottom (or side or whatever) is vacuuming a bare bottom instead of transferring be effective? Or maybe used in conjunction with the sheet method I mentioned under question 1? I'm pretty sure I found an article about siphoning a bare bottom every 3 days for so long will erradicate the problem. I'm not 100% if it applied to ich or velvet (well, if it applies to one it may apply to some extent to the other). I'm not sure if it was on the web or a book - I can't find it any more. I only found a general reference online that transfer and siphoning the bare bottom can be used effectively but require timelines and effort. I'm also wondering if brushing the bottom would help to detach the cysts for vacuuming or rather break them off potentially releasing the free swimming tomites?
I'm thinking that avoiding transfers may be easier to implement and less stresfull to the fish.
I'm considering the multitank fish transfer method while keeping the display empty. I moved almost all my fish to a separate tank (a rather small 20 gal compared to the 187 gal DT) except the marine betta and GSM that I couldn't catch yet.Two questions, somewhat related tot he multi trank transfer method (let me know if they are not related enough to this topic and I should instead open a new thread for this).
1) do you think that covering the bottom of the tank with some kind of sheet or something and pulling it out after 3 days and putting a new one instead would work as an alternative to transferring the fish to a new tank? I'd assume the Ich would attach to them when dropping off the fish and removing the sheet would also remove the Ich cysts.
I'm not sure how strong their attachment is, if by just pulling the sheet out they would fall off and maybe get in the water current (maybe stop all pumps/powerheads) and then on the bottom.
2) This brings me to the second question. If the ich cysts are not too well attached to the bottom (or side or whatever) is vacuuming a bare bottom instead of transferring be effective? Or maybe used in conjunction with the sheet method I mentioned under question 1? I'm pretty sure I found an article about siphoning a bare bottom every 3 days for so long will erradicate the problem. I'm not 100% if it applied to ich or velvet (well, if it applies to one it may apply to some extent to the other). I'm not sure if it was on the web or a book - I can't find it any more. I only found a general reference online that transfer and siphoning the bare bottom can be used effectively but require timelines and effort. I'm also wondering if brushing the bottom would help to detach the cysts for vacuuming or rather break them off potentially releasing the free swimming tomites?
I'm thinking that avoiding transfers may be easier to implement and less stresfull to the fish.
adikira
New member
Well, I guess if the fish can be moved with, at least some of the water, without using a net it may not be as stressful - and less concerns about the transfer method
Sure, no problem. I use 20's because that is what I have and it is able to accommodate good sized fish.
Reefing Newbie
New member
I just thought of something. If the ich falls off about every 3 days, wouldn't you need to time the transfers on the schedule of that? This may be a dumb question, but my brain is not connecting this one.
No, simply transfer on the morning of days 4,7,10,13 (to established quarantine). Don't over think this.
Reefing Newbie
New member
Thanks, for the help Steve. I just want to fully understand this before going ahead with it.
The absolute best way to understand is to intimately understand the life cycle as presented in the sticky.
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