stlcards14
New member
My PH dropped to 7.5 killing all the fish I had in QT once and since then I've been monitoring it. I can never keep it's up. It always drops on me
Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method
- Thread starter snorvich
- Start date
Spar
New member
pH wouldn't have been the cause. only way that your pH is dropping like that is if you have something sucking out carbonates like crazy, which wouldn't/shouldn't be the case in a TTM QT; or you are introducing acids to the water. only way you are introducing acids to the tank is if you are dosing something unnecessary or if you are overstocked (waste decaying).
as said in prior post, since you are switching out 100% of the water every 3 days, this really couldn't happen.
highly likely there is a different cause for the fish dieing other than pH, IMO.
What is your KH at in the water you are using? Maybe try using DT water instead of new mixed water if you have the means to do so.
mattsilvester
Team RC
Yes. The idea is that the cysts will drop off and attach themselves to the substrate and you will move the fish out before that cyst has the chance to hatch and become free swimming again.
125mph
New member
Do you think the tank transfer method is better to put all fish in one tank and when transferring them to the secondary tank, transfer them all together?
Or do you think its better to use multiple tanks for groups of fish.. For example, I could use a 5 gallon bucket for my regal angel.. And another 5 gallon for my clowns, and another 5 gallon for my potters angel.. And when I transfer them, transfer them to different buckets too.
Which do you think has better success with the tank transfer?
Or do you think its better to use multiple tanks for groups of fish.. For example, I could use a 5 gallon bucket for my regal angel.. And another 5 gallon for my clowns, and another 5 gallon for my potters angel.. And when I transfer them, transfer them to different buckets too.
Which do you think has better success with the tank transfer?
125mph
New member
Okay, just did the tank transfer method..
Day #1 (1/7/2014): Transferred to hospital tank and started cupramine
Day #4 (1/10/2014): Abandon cupramine and transferred to tank #2
Capturing the fish with a clear container was easier then I thought. Didn't look like they were stressed very much.
One thing with the tank transfer process: Moving forward, should I see any new cysts (white salt) on the fish? Is that an indication that I did something wrong if I see new cysts? How do I know if the method is failing?
Day #1 (1/7/2014): Transferred to hospital tank and started cupramine
Day #4 (1/10/2014): Abandon cupramine and transferred to tank #2
Capturing the fish with a clear container was easier then I thought. Didn't look like they were stressed very much.
One thing with the tank transfer process: Moving forward, should I see any new cysts (white salt) on the fish? Is that an indication that I did something wrong if I see new cysts? How do I know if the method is failing?
125mph
New member
So they are on the fish fir up to 7 data. When they fall off the fish, how long before they divide and sar looking fir me fish? I assume this is ocer3 days right?
Spar
New member
Stages derived from this sticky and other posts:
Trophont - is when attached to the fish - 3 to 7 days attached to the fish
Protomont - drops off fish and crawls on substrate - 2 to 18 hours
Tomont - begins to encyst on substrate - probably quick
Tomites - while a cyst, it splits into daughter parasites - 3 to 28 days inside cyst, however possibly 72 days max
Theronts - new parasites hatched from the cyst - 24 hours to find host or die
So to answer your question, it can be anywhere up to 72 days, minimum of 3-4 days before they go on their search.
Trophont - is when attached to the fish - 3 to 7 days attached to the fish
Protomont - drops off fish and crawls on substrate - 2 to 18 hours
Tomont - begins to encyst on substrate - probably quick
Tomites - while a cyst, it splits into daughter parasites - 3 to 28 days inside cyst, however possibly 72 days max
Theronts - new parasites hatched from the cyst - 24 hours to find host or die
So to answer your question, it can be anywhere up to 72 days, minimum of 3-4 days before they go on their search.
125mph
New member
125mph
New member
Just realized a flaw in my dates.. My Day #1 which started with cupramine used 50% tank water and 50% new water... so that kinda screws up the plan.. I guess my day #4 will be the new day #1 to make sure I follow the TT protocol correctly.
mattsilvester
Team RC
Initial tank used tank water. This tank water is from the display tank that will the final home for the fish? This is a new fish right? Then we assume the final home is "clean" of Cryptocaryon Irritans. So using that "clean" water on day 1 is of no consequence.
On the otherhand, if you are treating sick fish.... And the water came from an infected tank tank - then yes, start the protocol from day #4 as your new day#1. If this is the situation, you do realise that you need to let the display go fallow for 72days, right?
On the otherhand, if you are treating sick fish.... And the water came from an infected tank tank - then yes, start the protocol from day #4 as your new day#1. If this is the situation, you do realise that you need to let the display go fallow for 72days, right?
125mph
New member
Is TTM failing me?
My day #1 was Friday 1/10/2014. I've observed the fish every day and as of yesterday and last night, there were no white spots to be seen. I believe all the cysts fell off.
My day #4 is this morning, Monday 1/13/2014. I transferred the fish at 6am and then observed the fish... I noticed my potters angel has 1 white spot and my other clown has 2 white spots on his fin.. There's a marginal chance I missed it when I was looking yesterday but I highly doubt it...
Could it be when I transferred the fish over before, I transferred a few eggs? I use an acrylic clear container which I drilled multiple holes at the bottom. When transferring the fish, only 1-2 drops (dribbles) make it to the new tank.
Would there be any disadvantage to increasing the TTM to every 2 days instead of every 3 days thereby ensuring the eggs dont turn into free floating ich in time? I know that may produce more stress on the fish but my fish seem to be pretty healthy with TTM, they are eating well and I catch them really fast with the container. Obviously still do it for 12+ days.
My day #1 was Friday 1/10/2014. I've observed the fish every day and as of yesterday and last night, there were no white spots to be seen. I believe all the cysts fell off.
My day #4 is this morning, Monday 1/13/2014. I transferred the fish at 6am and then observed the fish... I noticed my potters angel has 1 white spot and my other clown has 2 white spots on his fin.. There's a marginal chance I missed it when I was looking yesterday but I highly doubt it...
Could it be when I transferred the fish over before, I transferred a few eggs? I use an acrylic clear container which I drilled multiple holes at the bottom. When transferring the fish, only 1-2 drops (dribbles) make it to the new tank.
Would there be any disadvantage to increasing the TTM to every 2 days instead of every 3 days thereby ensuring the eggs dont turn into free floating ich in time? I know that may produce more stress on the fish but my fish seem to be pretty healthy with TTM, they are eating well and I catch them really fast with the container. Obviously still do it for 12+ days.
Spar
New member
Just to confirm, 100% of equipment is changed out as well right? including airline tubing, etc?
There is no harm (other than minor stress you pointed out) in doing 2 days instead of 3. You would just do 6+ transfers instead of the 4. If I had the time to do so I would do this. Given the minimum possible hatching time is 72 hours, you are playing with a small margin of possibilty, while still highly unlikely.
The 'eggs' are actually cysts that are attached hard to a surface, highly unlikely they come over with you. I haven't heard any research on the possibility of them becoming unattached and still survive, but am curious on this.
125mph
New member
Yep, I have two sets of pumps, heaters and PVC pipes. I soak them in bleach for 24 hours and then was them at the kitchen sink with soap and water, then let them dry fully for another 24 hours. I spray down the tank and use house-hold cleaner sprayer to sanitize it.. Then I use water to remove any cleaner chemicals that may not be good for fish.. Then I let that sit for 24+ hours so it is fully dry as well.
As for the eggs being cysts, do they attach to the glass? The tanks im using for TTM are bare glass tanks with just PVC pipes, a heater and a pump to agitate the surface for air. So the eggs would just attach to the glass?
When I pick up the fish with the container, since the fish are usually at the very bottom, the container makes contact with the glass... Just cautious that they can come with me. I'll observe the fish some more and see if I can speed up the transfer to every 2 days instead of 3.
As for the eggs being cysts, do they attach to the glass? The tanks im using for TTM are bare glass tanks with just PVC pipes, a heater and a pump to agitate the surface for air. So the eggs would just attach to the glass?
When I pick up the fish with the container, since the fish are usually at the very bottom, the container makes contact with the glass... Just cautious that they can come with me. I'll observe the fish some more and see if I can speed up the transfer to every 2 days instead of 3.
Spar
New member
This is my understanding... that they attach to the glass or any other hard surface. I am hoping someone with more scientific knowledge pipes in as well... e.g. if a cyst comes unattached from whatever surface it is on, will it result in the incomplete forming parasites inside dieing?
125mph
New member
One part that I has confused me.. why is it suggested to move the fish in the morning?... From another post:
"Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period. This is why I always suggest moving fish during tank transfer quarantine protocols in the morning."
That to me says the Theronts are in attack mode between 2:00am to 9:00am and seeking sleeping fish.. Why would you move the fish at 6AM when they more then likely just got binded by a theront and now is a trophont? Wouldn't you want to move the fish at night before the 2AM attack?
"Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period. This is why I always suggest moving fish during tank transfer quarantine protocols in the morning."
That to me says the Theronts are in attack mode between 2:00am to 9:00am and seeking sleeping fish.. Why would you move the fish at 6AM when they more then likely just got binded by a theront and now is a trophont? Wouldn't you want to move the fish at night before the 2AM attack?
Spar
New member
I have chosen this route as well. I just rinse everything right away so that it has near 48 hours to completely dry + 24 hours for the cysts to die.
125mph - i always thought that the parasites drop off the fish at night while they are sleeping is why the early morning transfer. what you posted contradicts that a little... so not sure. all i know is that the period of time we are 'tricking the system' is that 72 hour period the cysts are in their 'shell'. so really doesn't matter what time of the day you do it as long as you are relatively consistent.
edit--- clarification: that article is talking about the Theronts hatching from the cyst, which shouldnt ever occur if you time it right (e.g. play the 72 hour rule). so what i was saying about the Ich falling off fish at night while sleeping is still where the morning transfer benefit comes from. As you wouldn't want Ich to fall off the fish right when you move them over to the new TTM aquarium... albeit really shouldn't matter regardless but just increases risk slightly if one does.
Similar threads
