Cubed & Squared

[Borchers]

Well here is mine after the move

 

[biggles]

Thanks biggles & troub for hanging around when I really didn't feel great about the tank

So, its not like the tank is doing great or anything....still battling cyano!!!! :furious:. Plus, to make matters worse, my son wasn't keeping well a couple weeks ago, and we were due to go for our annual family holiday... so yeah a royal mess!!!

So, I just got back from the holiday, and this is what I saw...



Thankfully, no major losses. The green slimer began to RTN though, in my absence, and is now fragged. The cyano also caused the abro to stn, and its been annoying a few of the sps. I went bare bottom in the acro tank to try and reduce phosphates, but as it turns out, no matter how much GFO I run, phosphates are at 0.06 to 0.1....Not fun!!! I suspect that the rock I used for rescaping the Monti tank, is leaching tons of PO4. Any suggestions biggles? I'm currently adding Zeo Coral Snow, which is supposed to help battle cyano, by cleaning out the live rock, so I hope it helps.... It's bloody irritating!!

And I've also removed a lot of the maricultured monti pieces out of the Monti tank.....So yeah....I wish things were better...but right now, its just back to basics till I get rid of the damn cyano :furious:

Crap.

Bummed to hear things haven't been great lately buddy, hope the little guy is back to 110% and running you ragged again - don't worry though as it doesn't last forever mate. As soon as he discovers modern technology like the net and smart phones you'll be struggling to get him to move. He was sitting beside a friend once and they were both giggling away so i asked who they were chatting with. We're texting each other dad and they rolled their eyes at each other.......... i thought about putting the garden hose on them both. :mad2:

I hate to say it but your systems are looking very drab and sickly Bello . When i stripped all the phos from the system in the first few months i basically ran the frag section with 100% white and 10% blue LED's and grew heaps of GHA in there which i harvested weekly and over the weeks the growth slowed considerably. I guess some macro algae like people use will do the same thing. I ran the skimmer wetter back then too so maybe add another 10mm in the cup a day with an adjustment.
I'd also check your foods with a phos test and drop any high reading ones. Do you only have one pump in those tanks, i have over 80X my display volume in circulation not counting the return and the sand bed receives a lot of flow in most places and 'dead' spots show up with the beginnings of very light cyano so i make small pump adjustments. My water surface is always boiling a good 1" above the surface with water flows. I have always had very high flow in my tanks - this is the lowest, but not for long lol. Maybe that's part of my success keeping wild SPS......who knows.

The 'basics' is all i ever use as you know and you won't go wrong if you 'reboot' things and tweak your system a bit. I ran 1/2 cup of rowaphos and the same in carbon when getting phos readings and still do so about 1 week out of every month due to over feeding the corals - if the fish let me glue them to the rocks they'd get a lot more to eat too lol.
Basically i'd suggest aggressive GFO, grow some sort of algae and encourage it to grow somewhere other than in the display. Reduce feedings of fish to bare minimum, nothing for the corals and nothing but RO and 2 part dosing - no other 'stuff'. I had over 10 acros in the tank for over two months with no fish and nothing but RO and 2 part and they were fine and growing, not like now but still they were growing and colored so get tough for a little while. Strip it all back and start again, building up fish and coral specific feeds slowly over weeks.
There's no reason you can't have a beautiful display, your corals were just starting to settle and the colors were improving so it really is a matter of stripping out the bad stuff until it stops poisoning your corals and ensuring it stays at very low or zero levels.
Hope you can use one or two of my suggestions to get things back on track mate :thumbsup:

Troub isn't having any cyano issues at all oddly enough.....................

 

[Bello]

I like the 2 tank set up.......

Thanks, kind words at this time goes a long way

Bummed to hear things haven't been great lately buddy, hope the little guy is back to 110% and running you ragged again - don't worry though as it doesn't last forever mate. As soon as he discovers modern technology like the net and smart phones you'll be struggling to get him to move. He was sitting beside a friend once and they were both giggling away so i asked who they were chatting with. We're texting each other dad and they rolled their eyes at each other.......... i thought about putting the garden hose on them both.

Thankfully, he's doing much better. My wife and him are still on holiday, so I have a bit of time to sort this mess out. I'm actively trying to keep him away from modern tech, he needs to get out and play!!!...well, as soon as he can walk properly that is :lol:. I play a lot of soccer, trying to get him into it too . Rather than learning to walk properly, he's more interested in kicking the damn ball :lol:

I hate to say it but your systems are looking very drab and sickly Bello . When i stripped all the phos from the system in the first few months i basically ran the frag section with 100% white and 10% blue LED's and grew heaps of GHA in there which i harvested weekly and over the weeks the growth slowed considerably. I guess some macro algae like people use will do the same thing. I ran the skimmer wetter back then too so maybe add another 10mm in the cup a day with an adjustment.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with you here. The colors have paled out quite a bit, but I explicitly told my tank sitter (employee, so he can't mess with his boss ) to NOT overfeed. And in trying to get out the cyano with siphoning etc, I ended up doing a crapload of waterchanges. Currently, hopefully they pull through till this clears, and then I can worry about color.

I'd did what you described on my first setup. It worked brilliantly, but in my DT rather than my sump, while I awaited my chiller.

I'd also check your foods with a phos test and drop any high reading ones. Do you only have one pump in those tanks, i have over 80X my display volume in circulation not counting the return and the sand bed receives a lot of flow in most places and 'dead' spots show up with the beginnings of very light cyano so i make small pump adjustments. My water surface is always boiling a good 1" above the surface with water flows. I have always had very high flow in my tanks - this is the lowest, but not for long lol. Maybe that's part of my success keeping wild SPS......who knows.

The 'basics' is all i ever use as you know and you won't go wrong if you 'reboot' things and tweak your system a bit. I ran 1/2 cup of rowaphos and the same in carbon when getting phos readings and still do so about 1 week out of every month due to over feeding the corals - if the fish let me glue them to the rocks they'd get a lot more to eat too lol.
Basically i'd suggest aggressive GFO, grow some sort of algae and encourage it to grow somewhere other than in the display. Reduce feedings of fish to bare minimum, nothing for the corals and nothing but RO and 2 part dosing - no other 'stuff'. I had over 10 acros in the tank for over two months with no fish and nothing but RO and 2 part and they were fine and growing, not like now but still they were growing and colored so get tough for a little while. Strip it all back and start again, building up fish and coral specific feeds slowly over weeks.
There's no reason you can't have a beautiful display, your corals were just starting to settle and the colors were improving so it really is a matter of stripping out the bad stuff until it stops poisoning your corals and ensuring it stays at very low or zero levels.
Hope you can use one or two of my suggestions to get things back on track mate :thumbsup:

Troub isn't having any cyano issues at all oddly enough.....................

Thanks for the tips, biggles, I'm pretty much trying exactly what you're saying. Threw in some Chaetomorpha in the sump, unfortunately, the cyano is growing over it at the moment. I believe the chaeto growth is NO3 limited at the moment. I'm using something like 1.5 LTRS!!! of GFO at the moment. I'm pretty convinced that my some of the LR in the redone Monti scape is the cause. I threw out a lot of it, but some remains. The rock was from a Fish only system, and not well filtered. I'm not dosing any funny stuff, just trying to keep it simple. If this goes wrong, I'm blaming you ...prepare for my abusive PM's... ha ha

Not feeding the fish much either. It may look like a bit, but I only have 9 fish in this 300g system, and 4 of them are smaller than my finger. So feeding is low...... has to be the damn rock!! Will try using another PO4 kit to confirm my levels again.

I dunno if you noticed, but I've removed a ton of the colonies from the Monti system, will be working with frags now. One of my pumps conked off, so I'm waiting on the replacement. Current flow is about 30x tank volume. Waiting on the replacement. Acro tank is running at about 40x tank volume, but I'm wondering if the aquascape matters much when determining proper tank flow.

As you said, I did a major cleanup of all detritus and the like, a couple days ago, keeping it very simple, but since the PO4 just isn't dropping, I've resorted, against my better judgement, to use a Red Slime Remover. I just couldn't keep having the cyano smother the acros. I know that this is a temp solution, but I'm fine dealing with algae, as long as they're not cyano or damn dinos . Once this crap goes away, I'll gradually work on the foods and coloration. I don't really plan on adding any more fish for quite a while.

I don't feel bad for Troub, have you seen the steak he's cooking!!!

Do me a favor biggles, have a good weekend, but stay away from the coral shops , don't make me more miserable

 

[johnvu713]

If I'm not mistaken you mentioned you acid bathe your LR? Perhaps you should leave them in acid a bit longer to get rid of excess p04? I give mine three baths with each lasting at least 30 mins and then let them sit dry in the Texas heat a few days. After that theyre soaked in RO water for a wk.

Love the minimalist look go had going. GL

 

[NegroModelo]

Looking good ! Like the side by side setup I'd love to do this but with diff lighting on each tank and same frags goin into each really put led and t5 head to head

 

[Bello]

If I'm not mistaken you mentioned you acid bathe your LR? Perhaps you should leave them in acid a bit longer to get rid of excess p04? I give mine three baths with each lasting at least 30 mins and then let them sit dry in the Texas heat a few days. After that theyre soaked in RO water for a wk.

Love the minimalist look go had going. GL

I should've followed the live rock procedure as you mentioned..... but I didn't :headwallred:. And I'm paying the price now. I just moved the rock from my other system directly. I really didn't expect sooo much of leaching.

The red slimer remover seems to have a helped though, but I expect some other problem algae to crop up, thanks to the leaching po4. In any case, at least the corals won't get smothered and I can move towards finding that balance.

Thanks for the tips

Looking good ! Like the side by side setup I'd love to do this but with diff lighting on each tank and same frags goin into each really put led and t5 head to head

Thanks! That'd be pretty cool, and you could have a fairly accurate experiment. I have trouble sourcing T5 tubes/MH bulbs at my location though, so I'm pretty much forced into LED's. All the same, there are differences in led bulb configs in both tanks, and there's fairly constant tweaking going on to get the perfect colors....more work :lol:

 

[biggles]

How are things going now mate. Are you making any headway on depleting the phos leeching from the rock and how's that bloody cyano looking now, any better yet ?
The aquascape makes a huge difference to flow patterns and once the corals start spreading out things just get worse lol - the joys of keeping SPS tanks hey lol...... i've managed to make two stag tips grow downwards so i think my flow is not quite right :rolleye1:
I can't keep flubber to save myself. The two bits of that hammer i saved seem to not be dying but both of them look like washed out colorless crap, i was target feeding them but the novelty wore off that real quick and Potatohead molested them straight after and stole the food anyway :headwallblue:
I'm thinking of throwing a 5" DSB in the frag section prior to adding more poo machines to ensure nitrates remain undetectable. Tested alk this morning after things looked a bit grumpy at lights on - 6.3 I have no idea how it dropped suddenly and retested 3 times with the same result. I'm thinking of swapping over to kalk entirely but that'll probably end in more dramas lol.
I'm staying away from the LFS, one visit in 2 months is pretty good for me. I'm not posting any more FTS's until i see your reefs looking great, nothing new going on in my tank anyway I was going to say no FTS's until Troub put water in his display but i want to post one prior to man settling on Mars..............

 

[trueblackpercula]

Hello all,

I have been battling cyno and algae as well on my sand bed and this is what I did to over come the battle.

1. I removed as much algae from the sand bed as I could
2. Added some live critters to the SANDBED
Cleaned skimmer from top to bottom, I was amazed to see sediment build up on the bottom of it.
3. Removed filter socks
4.Changed my lighting schedule, I should say adjusted the output of my LEDs
5. Changed from flake food to pellet food
6. Stopped feed my sps dry food and started oyster feast very little and target feed
7. Started dosing vodka
All this has helped to e level of me being very pleased with the tank. I almost removed my 3" sand bed but didn't do it. Mind you all this has been over a month and a half so I don't want you to think I did this in a weekend. If I was you I would add a new deep sand bed the correct way and start a carbon dosing program. Adding GFO is great but its hard well for me it was to tell how much is too much as it will strip the water to fast and corals will become very pale or bleached.
Good luck and I will look forward to your progress as your system is amazing.

 

[TheReefKeeper]

Nice tank hang in their it will pass buddy!

I would run Carbon only I have found when a tank is in this type of transition Carbon seems like a safe option some ROX from BRS works wonders.

I have seen corals Pal then STN with GFO on a young tank far too often. I run NO GFO and NO Bio Pellets. I keep it old school water changes weekly and Carbon monthly clean the glass daily run a filter sock and clean it weekly and you should see improvement. If you have to feed every other day for a week and cut the lights an hour early for a quicker recovery I would do it.

Don't get caught up in all the snake oils some of the first methods used in this hobby's beginning are still the best from all my experiences. Good Luck!!

 

[Bello]

How are things going now mate. Are you making any headway on depleting the phos leeching from the rock and how's that bloody cyano looking now, any better yet ?

Lol biggles, you're dragging me out of the dumps :lol:

Anyways, I didn't test po4 in a while now, since I dumped in the red slime remover last week, the tanks cleared up. Pretty sure the PO4 is still leaching but I haven't seen any spurt of fresh algae so I THINK I'm ok for a bit as far as that is concerned. I didn't like the fact that I had to resort to using a Quick Fix, but it was physically draining me for me to siphon water change etc... and I was just getting frustrated....So that's done....for now

So, while I was busy getting frustrated with the cyano, my good friends, AEFW, decided to have a party!!! Dinner was obviously served, and they went to town on a green acro, and a lokani frag. So now, I've got myself, the next set of problems :furious:. If I remember correctly, you recommended a brute force method, which I assume, means uproot everything and dip!!... I'm NOT looking forward to this, but it seems that I have no other choice. Any tips would be great. Wondering if one complete dip would enough, or 2 complete dips over a period of a week. So, now you know why I'm not updating :lol:

And..... more bad news, I'll be taking down the Drop Off....this is just taking too much time, and little Wayd demands attention!!... so not a great update, I'm afraid...

Hopefully, when this is all done...I'll have some nice pics up

 

[Bello]

Hello all,

I have been battling cyno and algae as well on my sand bed and this is what I did to over come the battle.

1. I removed as much algae from the sand bed as I could
2. Added some live critters to the SANDBED
Cleaned skimmer from top to bottom, I was amazed to see sediment build up on the bottom of it.
3. Removed filter socks
4.Changed my lighting schedule, I should say adjusted the output of my LEDs
5. Changed from flake food to pellet food
6. Stopped feed my sps dry food and started oyster feast very little and target feed
7. Started dosing vodka
All this has helped to e level of me being very pleased with the tank. I almost removed my 3" sand bed but didn't do it. Mind you all this has been over a month and a half so I don't want you to think I did this in a weekend. If I was you I would add a new deep sand bed the correct way and start a carbon dosing program. Adding GFO is great but its hard well for me it was to tell how much is too much as it will strip the water to fast and corals will become very pale or bleached.
Good luck and I will look forward to your progress as your system is amazing.

Thanks for the tips TBP :thumbsup:, I really appreciate you taking the time out for this.

I did however, take the easy way out, despite my best efforts, I was unable to beat cyano without the slime remover. I did a lot of what you mentioned, my RDSB wasn't functioning well (I'm guessing due to the lack of critters), there was huge load of detritus piled up in the sump and frag tanks, got rid of that. Removed all excess live rock (which weren't cured properly in the first place, and possibly leached PO4), siphoned the rock, sandbed time and again, and still wasn't able to succeed. So I resorted to the slime remover. On the bright side, thanks to the clean up, I removed a ton of detritus and basically cleaned up my entire system, so I can't really complain.

In the past when I was running zeo, I was able to beat cyano, by simply reducing nutrients drastically and quickly, but that had an adverse effect on the sps, so didn't want to go down that route again. I hope I don't have to deal with cyano again for a while now.

But as mentioned in the previous post, AEFW has now taken a hold. Seems that my Tamarin wrasse was just watching the show, rather than helping me out. Any tips, would be greatly appreciated :thumbsup:

 

[Bello]

Nice tank hang in their it will pass buddy!

I would run Carbon only I have found when a tank is in this type of transition Carbon seems like a safe option some ROX from BRS works wonders.

I have seen corals Pal then STN with GFO on a young tank far too often. I run NO GFO and NO Bio Pellets. I keep it old school water changes weekly and Carbon monthly clean the glass daily run a filter sock and clean it weekly and you should see improvement. If you have to feed every other day for a week and cut the lights an hour early for a quicker recovery I would do it.

Don't get caught up in all the snake oils some of the first methods used in this hobby's beginning are still the best from all my experiences. Good Luck!!

Thanks TheReefKeeper (nice username ), the cyano has now gone thanks to the slime remover, however, I'm still at odds on how to proceed. The goal is to keep things as simple as possible. Prior to the outbreak, GFO was being consumed fairly slowly, and I was trying to see how long I could go without switching bags.

I'm still leaning towards the old school system of reefing, with possibly a mild amount of carbon dosing, since my refugium isn't taking off.

Thanks again for the tips, and I hope I'll have better results in the next couple of months.... after I beat bloody AEFW

 

[TheReefKeeper]

Thanks TheReefKeeper (nice username ), the cyano has now gone thanks to the slime remover, however, I'm still at odds on how to proceed. The goal is to keep things as simple as possible. Prior to the outbreak, GFO was being consumed fairly slowly, and I was trying to see how long I could go without switching bags.

I'm still leaning towards the old school system of reefing, with possibly a mild amount of carbon dosing, since my refugium isn't taking off.

Thanks again for the tips, and I hope I'll have better results in the next couple of months.... after I beat bloody AEFW

Get some interceptor spectrum line ASAP that is available online via quick search. I have had good luck with it in the past and I'm 100% pest free 6mo. now It won't hurt at this point honestly.

I am back after 16 years in the hobby to carbon only lol it seems to work the best. Carbon and B-Ionic is what I was using in 2001 LOL. Keep it simple and I would just stradly blow off the rocks and sump with a powerhead and do a 5 Gal. water change once per week possibly twice in the beginning. Stop moving things around and keep hands out of the tank as much as possible. The detritus is gonna settle so you have to let the biological cycle start at some point so if it don't move with a powerhead then leave it.

That's all keep it simple because if you don't your always chasing problems weather it be something your adding or something your moving the system will never settle in ya know?

 

[Bello]

Stop moving things around and keep hands out of the tank as much as possible. The detritus is gonna settle so you have to let the biological cycle start at some point so if it don't move with a powerhead then leave it.

That's all keep it simple because if you don't your always chasing problems weather it be something your adding or something your moving the system will never settle in ya know?

This is the problem, right there....I can't seem to keep my hands out of the tank . I'm constantly meddling with something or the other. Truth be told, the cyano issue started with me meddling about the aquascape using improperly cured rock, and it was downhill from there.....

In any case, I'm done with the scape now, 100% satisfied, its just a matter of the AEFW. My friend currently is battling red bugs and we've tried to get Interceptor, but to no avail (we're located outside off the US). Looks like its gonna be a whole lotta dipping, and THEN finally I can let things be.

One of favourite tanks is one by Marko Haaga (hope i've got the name right), using nothing but carbon, and it looks brilliant! As of now, I've got a whole lot of fancy equipment with me, but will be relying heavily on just the skimmer. I'm not dosing any supplements/additives at the moment, and don't plan do so. Will rely on regular water changes, that's all. Don't have many fish either, so that should make things easier.

Will put up a fresh FTS, once I'm done with the dips. Thanks again :thumbsup:

I did take a pic of one of my 'FRAG ISLANDS' a couple days ago....this was after the red slime remover session

 

[TheReefKeeper]

The Spectrum line of Interceptor is available not the old version. I see 3-4 acros I would personally only dip them a few times and either quarantine them or give them to someone with a Quarantine and let the system heal. If you cured dead rock you have a min. of 6mo. before you will see no issues like STN,Dino's and Cyno so it takes time keep calm and keep it simple.

 

[troubadour11]

Hey... you all are super active in here today! How's a guy supposed to get anything done at work! Hahahaha.

Anyway, sorry to hear about the rough seas in the tank Bello. But keep your chin up and your hands from meddling and I bet it will straighten out before you know it.

And if it makes you feel any better... you're current slime worries and bug infestation still has me drooling! I mean, after all, it's wet and has things alive in it! So you got me beat for now! :blown:

Well, back to work for me!

 

[biggles]

First off Bello, save the acro circled - it's a ripper :thumbsup:
I'm wondering if turning the drop off into a quarantine tank for the affected SPS would be an option. The bugs won't bother the flubber in there and even if they did - who cares......:dance:
I really feel for you having to deal with those b@stards mate, i remember once i discovered tiny white acro eating nudis on a new colony in a previous tank. I immediately removed the entire colony and let my golden lab use it as a chew toy - she liked knawing on smelly bits of acro i threw out the back door lol. That's the only time i've had to deal with a pest that eats SPS luckily but brutal efficiency removing any such invasion is the only way imo.

Btw i worked out why my alk dropped, i mixed a new batch of alk and didn't dissolve it properly hence there was about 1/4" of sediment on the bottom undissolved and 2 days dosing was very diluted. Have it back to 7.5 now and will bump it up a bit more to 8-8.2.

 

[biggles]

How goes the battle with those little bug bastards mate, really bums me out that you've had this set back

 

[Bello]

The Spectrum line of Interceptor is available not the old version. I see 3-4 acros I would personally only dip them a few times and either quarantine them or give them to someone with a Quarantine and let the system heal. If you cured dead rock you have a min. of 6mo. before you will see no issues like STN,Dino's and Cyno so it takes time keep calm and keep it simple.

I dipped ALL the corals in CoralRx, was utterly tiring, but didn't think I had many other choices. At the moment, I really don't know how well it worked, but I'm willing to dip all over again if required. Praying that I don't have to

Dipping and trying to get things back in line really killed off a lot of my enthusiasm....but I'm still in this

Thanks for the tips :thumbsup:

Hey... you all are super active in here today! How's a guy supposed to get anything done at work! Hahahaha.

Anyway, sorry to hear about the rough seas in the tank Bello. But keep your chin up and your hands from meddling and I bet it will straighten out before you know it.

And if it makes you feel any better... you're current slime worries and bug infestation still has me drooling! I mean, after all, it's wet and has things alive in it! So you got me beat for now! :blown:

Well, back to work for me!

Thanks Troub, I hope everythings gone well, gonna go check out the progress now....There'd better be progress

 

[Bello]

First off Bello, save the acro circled - it's a ripper :thumbsup:
I'm wondering if turning the drop off into a quarantine tank for the affected SPS would be an option. The bugs won't bother the flubber in there and even if they did - who cares......:dance:

How goes the battle with those little bug bastards mate, really bums me out that you've had this set back

Thanks Biggles, grateful for the support

Anyways, I dipped EVERY SINGLE ACROPORA in BOTH tanks in CoralRx. Some where double, triple dipped. BUT, I didn't find any egg clutches so honestly, right now its just praying that they don't come back. And the biggest side effect of the dipping is that a lot of the corals have turned brownish.

I'm following your advice about turning the drop off into a QT system essentially. The only thing I'm a bit concerned with, is that since I'll probably be adding mari/wild pieces, I don't want them to be completely brown by the time I'm done with QT. The frags I've transferred from the drop off, look really dull and was another reason for me shutting it down. In any case, better that the new pieces turn brown than be loaded with pests.

Nice edit on the IceFire pic. Should have known that you'd spot the coral :lol:. Looks far more accurate . It was sold to me as an IceFire, but obviously no lineage or anything. It looked very different initially when in the drop off, and I wondered if the seller was mistaken. But happy now


And finally, the most recent FTS, sand is back...now lets see