oceanparadise1
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patrick willis is a beastttttt
Curing Ich in Display Tank?
- Thread starter downhillbiker
- Start date
saltyputty
New member
I know this is going against most opinions on here, but I would really recommend Medic by Polyp Labs along with the treatment above.
While it is hard to say how much it helped in my case, I have heard numerous reports of this product working on its own, when dosed in the AM and PM.
If your fish keep eating, you should be OK, based on my experience.
gary faulkner
New member
You can go wrong if your are not good at soritng the wheat from the chaff.
Well said!
Well said!
Thanks
iamwhatiam52
New member
tmz,
You wrote:
"Don't add new fish for 11months. This is the time it takes for a single ich strain to expire. since it has a limited number of times it can reprocue (34)."
If new fish are added after medicated quarenteen and therefore could not introduce a new strain, would the ich still expire?
None of my fish show spots, but I know my system is infected since a neon goby put back in after treatment soon became covered in spots and died in three weeks.
You wrote:
"Don't add new fish for 11months. This is the time it takes for a single ich strain to expire. since it has a limited number of times it can reprocue (34)."
If new fish are added after medicated quarenteen and therefore could not introduce a new strain, would the ich still expire?
None of my fish show spots, but I know my system is infected since a neon goby put back in after treatment soon became covered in spots and died in three weeks.
Yes, they should but the new fish might get it and spark an outbreak to the others.This 11 month tidbit of hope for infested tanks that don't go fishless comes from a study by Burgess and Mathews in 1994. They were trying to keep a strain of ich for testing and intorduced ich free fish for one infestation each. The ich expired after 34 cycles even with suitable hosts available.
It is understandable since mosts cells have a predetermined number of times they can divide(as in aging) and I am assuming similar mechanisms are in play with these protozoans.
It's also interesting that there are over 7200 different types of ich, some of which can spend most of their time unseen,seemingly living in the mouth, gills or nostrils of marine fish.
It is understandable since mosts cells have a predetermined number of times they can divide(as in aging) and I am assuming similar mechanisms are in play with these protozoans.
It's also interesting that there are over 7200 different types of ich, some of which can spend most of their time unseen,seemingly living in the mouth, gills or nostrils of marine fish.
JustinReef
New member
I was following this thread quietly but its starting to really aggravate me to hear people still insisting that it could be less stressful on fish to force them to live with ich than live in a QT for 8 weeks. Now I agree that the 8 weeks of QT is more stressful than the time they spend in the tank with a mild case of ich. Sometimes the 8 weeks can be hell for the fish but in the end if all is done right, your tank will be ich free. So I guess I agree that short term its more stressful but long term its literally saving their lives. And you can learn your lesson and QT all new additions.
I was very stubborn years ago and killed way more than my fair share of fish. This happened all the way up until the time I began QTing. Its not a coincidence. harper is right, your fish should be living decades. I have not lost a fish to ich or any other disease yet, since beginning to QT. I have not seen ich in one of my tanks since I started to QT everything coming in. And fishkeeping has become very enjoyable. QT has become a fun and enjoyable way to watch new fish and get them eating and comfortable.
We all have a responsibility to take care of the fish we buy to the best of our abilities. No one, not one person here can say they cannot QT...then you have no right keeping fish. Everyone here knows this is a problem but it seems so many are way to selfish to QT because they don't want an empty tank. Fish are not decorations or play toys. You don't just buy new ones when the old ones break. The ocean has enough strains on it as is...start keeping your fish alive for decades! Its so much more enjoyable. You get attached. You have a great pet instead of a temporary roommate with a disease. And you can have all this with just 8 weeks of patients...
Anyways, didn't mean to rant but its just not fair. These fish are stolen from their homes (sometimes with poison), shipped across the world, stressed and scared out of their minds, shipped a few more times until they get crammed into a small, overstocked LFS tank, bought by us and stuck in another glass cage and on top of that, so many people force them to live with a disease that can be cured???????? All because 8 weeks is "too long" or "more stressful" or "I don't have room" or "Im just gonna wait it out for 11 months"
I was very stubborn years ago and killed way more than my fair share of fish. This happened all the way up until the time I began QTing. Its not a coincidence. harper is right, your fish should be living decades. I have not lost a fish to ich or any other disease yet, since beginning to QT. I have not seen ich in one of my tanks since I started to QT everything coming in. And fishkeeping has become very enjoyable. QT has become a fun and enjoyable way to watch new fish and get them eating and comfortable.
We all have a responsibility to take care of the fish we buy to the best of our abilities. No one, not one person here can say they cannot QT...then you have no right keeping fish. Everyone here knows this is a problem but it seems so many are way to selfish to QT because they don't want an empty tank. Fish are not decorations or play toys. You don't just buy new ones when the old ones break. The ocean has enough strains on it as is...start keeping your fish alive for decades! Its so much more enjoyable. You get attached. You have a great pet instead of a temporary roommate with a disease. And you can have all this with just 8 weeks of patients...
Anyways, didn't mean to rant but its just not fair. These fish are stolen from their homes (sometimes with poison), shipped across the world, stressed and scared out of their minds, shipped a few more times until they get crammed into a small, overstocked LFS tank, bought by us and stuck in another glass cage and on top of that, so many people force them to live with a disease that can be cured???????? All because 8 weeks is "too long" or "more stressful" or "I don't have room" or "Im just gonna wait it out for 11 months"
reptilemanmark
New member
I had a battle with ich till I put in a UV. I installed a high volume UV on the discharge back to my sump on one of the returns. I have not seen any ill affects of running it 24/7. I`ve been running it for about 8 months now. There are still tons of pods in my display and in my sump. 170 gallons total & over 350lbs of live rock, one vortech, Mag 24 return Pump from sump. Very simple setup!
iamwhatiam52
New member
justinpsmith:
The point of your rant is not lost on me, but once a mistake is made it is not always an option to QT after the fact. Even when I moved my tanks six months ago I never caught all my fish!
Three gobies and a brotulid were never found but showed up on the other end, obviously making the trip hiding in the rock. Even though I had set up a temporary 180gal + 100gal sump with water from my system to house them while the tanks were being set up, I lost a few treasured specimens. Then it took me three weeks to get all the rock and corals in my main tank set up exactly like I wanted it. No, I'm not breaking down again.
As for forcing them to live with a disease, all the fish in my tanks now show no symptoms, the perculas and black clown gobies are spawning again, and in general seem to be a picture of health. As long as nothing changes to stress them they should be fine.
I've learned my lesson. Before even thinking about adding new fish there will be a QT setup ready. I'm searching through old threads now to see what the best setup is, and how to deal with fish like mandarins or butterflies that need pods or live rock to pick on. Though I would like to QT in a setup with live rock to graze on and a decent pod population, this will be a problem if disease shows up and medication is needed. Since parasites can survive unobserved on gills or wherever, it seems medicating would be wise even if fish seem healthy after 8 weeks.
I'm doing my homework.
Any opinions on the perfect QT setup would be appreciated.
The point of your rant is not lost on me, but once a mistake is made it is not always an option to QT after the fact. Even when I moved my tanks six months ago I never caught all my fish!
Three gobies and a brotulid were never found but showed up on the other end, obviously making the trip hiding in the rock. Even though I had set up a temporary 180gal + 100gal sump with water from my system to house them while the tanks were being set up, I lost a few treasured specimens. Then it took me three weeks to get all the rock and corals in my main tank set up exactly like I wanted it. No, I'm not breaking down again.
As for forcing them to live with a disease, all the fish in my tanks now show no symptoms, the perculas and black clown gobies are spawning again, and in general seem to be a picture of health. As long as nothing changes to stress them they should be fine.
I've learned my lesson. Before even thinking about adding new fish there will be a QT setup ready. I'm searching through old threads now to see what the best setup is, and how to deal with fish like mandarins or butterflies that need pods or live rock to pick on. Though I would like to QT in a setup with live rock to graze on and a decent pod population, this will be a problem if disease shows up and medication is needed. Since parasites can survive unobserved on gills or wherever, it seems medicating would be wise even if fish seem healthy after 8 weeks.
I'm doing my homework.
Any opinions on the perfect QT setup would be appreciated.
JustinReef
New member
I do understand it can be hard to QT a whole tank of fish after the fact, especially when you would need many QT tanks. I have been there before and ended up with mostly dead fish. Im not really saying that is possible all the time but what I think is, is QTing from the beginning. And as you said, you have learned your lesson and thats good to hear!
As for QTing mandarins and butterflies, that can be tricky. The ideal QT tank is different from a hospital tank IMO. You can set a great QT, maybe a 20G that is pretty much a big refugium. You will end up with a nice looking QT with some LR, macros, tons of pods, ect. You don't need that much light over it and it does not need a skimmer unless you do have one for it. The macro's will help a lot with nitrates. Personally I would try to have a skimmer and set it up like a 20G display. Its just a place for new fish to go and relax, get comfortable. You can easily watch them and check for disease. If they are fine after 2-3 weeks, preferably even a month, add them to your display. If not, bring out your hospital tank. This again can be a 20G but can be empty most of the time. Have a sponge in your display tanks sump for a filter when you need it. Set up the hospital tank with display tank water and acclimate the sick fish. Dose meds or start hypo in the hospital tank. You will need to leave the QT tank fallow for 6 weeks after this, which is kind of a pain but it should be a really nice little tank with lots of crabs and maybe a few softies, lots of macro like I said and it should be very nice to look at. After its been fallow for 6 weeks, your ready for new fish!
To me, this is a fun way of getting to know your fish and its not a pain. Your QT is like a 5 star hotel for them and they will feel like they are on vacation. I have had a heavily planted (macro algae) QT and I think the tangs I QT'd never anted to leave! It was like an all inclusive vacation for them :lol:
JustinReef
New member
Yeah this helps for sure but not all ich will end up passing through the UV. They are not free swimming for very long and do not usually travel too far. Theres still no substitute for QT.
The 11 month tidbit comes from a study by Burgess and Mathews in 1994. They were maintaining a strain of ich for testing. They introduced a new ich free fish for each life cycle( exposing each fish only once and then treating them) . After 34 life cycles( taking 11months) the ich expired despite the availablility of a host. This makes sense if you think about it. Most cells have a predetermined number of divisions they can make(as in aging) so it is reasonalbe to think the protozoan ich would too.Interestingly ,they also found in 1995 that 82% of fish exposed to high levels of ich which survived developed at least parital immunity.These two pieces of inforamtion can give an 11 month framework to someone who has ich in a display that they don't wish to or can't take down . No new fish and low stress for the ich survivors for 11months could free the tank of it.
iamwhatiam52
New member
Thanks justinpsmith and everyone else. I'm in no rush to add stock, so I'll take my time setting up a resort for my new fish.
JustinReef
New member
Good to hear and Im sure your fish will be very thankful that you are setting up a resort for them
Its really not a hard thing to do and can be enjoyable. I look at it as a temporary smaller display tank for new fish. They just have to pass through it and prove to me they have no disease and then they get to join the rest in the main tank. If they do have disease then off to the hospital...
downhillbiker
New member
ok. so i think i am going to catch all the fish and QT them. how do i catch the fish? i have heard about plexi boxes with a trap door, but will this work?
any ideas???????
any ideas???????
paulamrein
New member
There doesn't have to be a reason for a parasite to do what it was created for. They live just like everything else,(in some tanks anyway<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649609#post12649609 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cloak
A faulty heater?
) I agree that somethings sometimes will spark an outbreak, but it doesn't have to be the case. No one is figuring out why I went to work on Monday, I want to live and provide for a family so I do it. Exactly the same for the parasite. Eradicate the problem, and all the stress in the world and "door slamming" isn't going to create a creature into existence. If you have a problem getting fish in a smaller tank, it doesn't have to be a conventional tank. Rubbermaid or plastic containers work just as well. The down side it's harder to observe the fish, but if you follow strict dosing and protocol you won't need to see it.a fish needs to swim, eat, and not be in sewer water. A QT is as simple or as complex as you want it.
downhillbiker
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649863#post12649863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paulamrein
There doesn't have to be a reason for a parasite to do what it was created for. They live just like everything else,(in some tanks anyway
a fish needs to swim, eat, and not be in sewer water. A QT is as simple or as complex as you want it.
i agree. i pride myself in having prestine water conditions. i keep the tv volume to a minimum, i have all the lights on a timer, i feed at the same time every day, heater works great! ect. but still i get ich. i think that its always been there, it is just time to take action.
There doesn't have to be a reason for a parasite to do what it was created for. They live just like everything ....
However, they live in the vastness of the sea in nature where they are subject to natural predation and a dispersed to a point where they are not a significant proiblem for fish. In the confinement of an aquarium they reach the densities we see which threaten our fish.
However, they live in the vastness of the sea in nature where they are subject to natural predation and a dispersed to a point where they are not a significant proiblem for fish. In the confinement of an aquarium they reach the densities we see which threaten our fish.
