Curing Ich in Display Tank?

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12650922#post12650922 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
There doesn't have to be a reason for a parasite to do what it was created for. They live just like everything ....

However, they live in the vastness of the sea in nature where they are subject to natural predation and a dispersed to a point where they are not a significant proiblem for fish. In the confinement of an aquarium they reach the densities we see which threaten our fish.

If this is true, this is exactly why all fish need to be QT'd before going into their new home.

I can understand many years ago, before internet, people not QTing fish and not knowing how to deal with it and loosing many, many fish to disease. But I don't understand why its still happening! EVERY single person on RC know what ich is and every single person can avoid it if they choose to. So why are so many fish still dying of ich for no reason other than people being selfish???

The problem should be dealt with beginning with the wholesalers and then the LFS and by the time the fish get to us, they should be in better shape but this is not going to happen. These people do not care about the fish, only selling them for profit which is hard enough as it is...adding another cost (dealing with ich) would be taking away even more of their profits. We are suppose to care about the fish but just constantly adding new fish to a display tank that has existing fish with or without ich, is not caring at all about the fish you are keeping. This is exactly what wholesalers and store owners want and it makes me sick. How many people here honestly know what its like to own a fish for over 5 years? What about 10? What about some that live over 20?

I can't honestly say I have owned a saltwater fish over 5 years because I never used to QT either like I said in my last post. I QT everything now and have for the past two years and guess what? The fish I QT'd 2 years ago are still alive...except one that jumped. I have owned a brackish water Shark Cat fish for about 11 years now though, it was one of the first fish I ever bought and its very cool to have a fish so long. QT properly and you can try it too!

Anyways, most people in this thread have the right idea and are really trying to QT and do things right...tmz this was not directed at you by the way! I was just recently at two different peoples homes and both their aquariums had ich covered fish and both had no desire or intention to QT.:rolleye1:

 

[downhillbiker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12651166#post12651166 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by justinpsmith
If this is true, this is exactly why all fish need to be QT'd before going into their new home.

I can understand many years ago, before internet, people not QTing fish and not knowing how to deal with it and loosing many, many fish to disease. But I don't understand why its still happening! EVERY single person on RC know what ich is and every single person can avoid it if they choose to. So why are so many fish still dying of ich for no reason other than people being selfish???

The problem should be dealt with beginning with the wholesalers and then the LFS and by the time the fish get to us, they should be in better shape but this is not going to happen. These people do not care about the fish, only selling them for profit which is hard enough as it is...adding another cost (dealing with ich) would be taking away even more of their profits. We are suppose to care about the fish but just constantly adding new fish to a display tank that has existing fish with or without ich, is not caring at all about the fish you are keeping. This is exactly what wholesalers and store owners want and it makes me sick. How many people here honestly know what its like to own a fish for over 5 years? What about 10? What about some that live over 20?

I can't honestly say I have owned a saltwater fish over 5 years because I never used to QT either like I said in my last post. I QT everything now and have for the past two years and guess what? The fish I QT'd 2 years ago are still alive...except one that jumped. I have owned a brackish water Shark Cat fish for about 11 years now though, it was one of the first fish I ever bought and its very cool to have a fish so long. QT properly and you can try it too!

Anyways, most people in this thread have the right idea and are really trying to QT and do things right...tmz this was not directed at you by the way! I was just recently at two different peoples homes and both their aquariums had ich covered fish and both had no desire or intention to QT.:rolleye1:

understand that i QT every fish that comes into my system for 4 weeks, thats with no sign of disease. one of the fish must have just not shown anything, but in fact have been carrying the parasite. i enjoy QT because i can closely examine the fish and watch it's behaviors, trust me QT tank is one of my most important pieces of equipment.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12651312#post12651312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by downhillbiker
understand that i QT every fish that comes into my system for 4 weeks, thats with no sign of disease. one of the fish must have just not shown anything, but in fact have been carrying the parasite. i enjoy QT because i can closely examine the fish and watch it's behaviors, trust me QT tank is one of my most important pieces of equipment.

Yeah I was really not referring to you. Its just that you see so many posts everyday saying things like "I just bought this new fish two days ago and hes been hiding in my rocks and..." Why is it not in QT? or "I can't catch my fish and I can't take my rock out to QT..." Yes you can. or you hear "Im using this reef safe ich treatment..." They don't work!

My point was that there are just so many excuses for why people don't QT and then why they can't. Its not like people don't know they should be doing it! As I said, with the internet, we all know to QT fish!

Now in your case, I feel really bad for you. You QT for the 4 weeks and still get ich. It does happen. Ich can come in or rocks, snails, corals, ect. They have to be QT'd unfortunately to be 100% sure you don't have ich and ven then it can still happen. Im not saying it will never happen. Im just saying that all the people not even trying are crazy and killing fish for no reason.

downhillbiker, you have the right attitude towards the whole thing. You have QT'd, still got ich but are now trying to figure out what to do.

Ich is not going anywhere but it can be controlled a lot better and a lot less fish need to die everyday.

 

[gary faulkner]

When I first got back into the hobby full steam, I set up a QT and no it wasn't the easiest thing I had ever done but it sure paid off in the long run. I guess I was luckier than most, I was able to purchase a full system that was already up and running with lots of fish and no ich.

So i was determined not to introduce anything into my system that had not been through QT.

I remember years ago a friend of mine bought me a birthday present of two tiny yellow gobies and we just threw them into the display and within two weeks all my fish were dead from ich. I will never not QT again. Lesson learned.

Just wish, like you, that people would listen to solid advice when given but it doesn't always happen. I'm not trying to put anyone down, it's just dis hearting when they will get good advice and then ignore it. I feel like I'm waisting my time with them. Rant over.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12651713#post12651713 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gary faulkner
When I first got back into the hobby full steam, I set up a QT and no it wasn't the easiest thing I had ever done but it sure paid off in the long run. I guess I was luckier than most, I was able to purchase a full system that was already up and running with lots of fish and no ich.

So i was determined not to introduce anything into my system that had not been through QT.

I remember years ago a friend of mine bought me a birthday present of two tiny yellow gobies and we just threw them into the display and within two weeks all my fish were dead from ich. I will never not QT again. Lesson learned.

Just wish, like you, that people would listen to solid advice when given but it doesn't always happen. I'm not trying to put anyone down, it's just dis hearting when they will get good advice and then ignore it. I feel like I'm waisting my time with them. Rant over.

Great example. Im not trying to pull anyone down either but it drives me nuts to see and hear of so many fish dying of ich when people know better. Especially once you have lost a bunch of fish once, why do it again??? These are living creatures.

I think Im also just so disappointed still because I had visited a local guys house the other day to see his tank. He has such a great set up, so well thought out, so well maintained, beautiful corals, some of the best aquascaping I have ever seen but his fish ALL have ich very badly and he does not seem to care. He adds more and more fish to his death trap. He does not QT, nor ever will...

Lost a lot of respect for a guy I thought was a "leader" in reefkeeping in my city.

 

[cloak]

Just because all of your fish have been through quarantine and are doing great, does not mean that they can't contract ich somewhere down the road. A faulty heater. A chill that was brought on. Something out of the ordinary. No cure for the common cold. I've had it, don't know where I got it from though. Kind of a horrible reality.

JMO.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

 

[gary faulkner]

Ich doesn't just appear out of nowhere. There are plenty of threads explaining ich and its life cycle.

And no my fish can't just contract ich. It is not in my tank and if I don't introduce it, it can't just appear. A little research will tell you this. Not my opinion just the facts.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12651806#post12651806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cloak
Just because all of your fish have been through quarantine and are doing great, does not mean that they can't contract ich somewhere down the road. A faulty heater. A chill that was brought on. Something out of the ordinary. No cure for the common cold. I've had it, don't know where I got it from though. Kind of a horrible reality.

JMO.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

Stress can't spur an ich outbreak unless the parasite is already there.There is no hocus pocus to it.Since it is so ubiquitous in marine fish and it is difficult to erradicate once introduced it may seem at times like it leads a magical existance but its really just just a protozoan.

 

[cloak]

I don't believe you. I think it's almost like a tick that they carry with them throughout life. When conditions are right, BOOM.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12651806#post12651806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cloak
Just because all of your fish have been through quarantine and are doing great, does not mean that they can't contract ich somewhere down the road. A faulty heater. A chill that was brought on. Something out of the ordinary. No cure for the common cold. I've had it, don't know where I got it from though. Kind of a horrible reality.

JMO.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php

This is exactly the problem. Why do people try so hard to justify the fact that they do not QT with myths like this?

You got a damn cold because you were exposed to it. If you were never in contact with someone with a cold, you could not get a cold. That would be very hard to avoid of course but we are talking about something much different. We are talking about a closed system and if there is no ich in this closed sytem fish cannot get it.

You do not just get colds from nowhere and fish do not get ich from heaters.

 

[cloak]

When I first put my 3" Red Sea sailfin in my cramped 60 gallon tank, it had two blurry eyes & a slight case of ich. Don't see alot of those fish around here. Impulse buy. Think I had a small regal tang, two chromis, a fiji blue devil, a sixline, an umpire damsel & a coral beauty. Why didn't my other fish contract it? Riddle me this and all be on my way. When an aquarist husbandry sucks, your prone.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12652364#post12652364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cloak
When I first put my 3" Red Sea sailfin in my cramped 60 gallon tank, it had two blurry eyes & a slight case of ich. Don't see alot of those fish around here. Impulse buy. Think I had a small regal tang, two chromis, a fiji blue devil, a sixline, an umpire damsel & a coral beauty. Why didn't my other fish contract it? Riddle me this and all be on my way. When an aquarist husbandry sucks, your prone.

Your other fish did not get it because they were obviously well taken care of and same with your tank. Thats not at all the point. You said it yourself, sometimes things are out of control like a huge temperature spike and this can stress fish enough for the ich to attack but if there is no ich in the tank, that temperature spike will do nothing and certainly will not cause ich. The whole point of all this is that you can do things to help your fish and keep them happy, why not do it? There is no reason not to.

Its funny you mention husbandry skills in the same paragraph you tell us you put a Sailfin in a 60G tank full of fish that shouldn't be in a 60G

And what exactly was the point? Im not sure what your getting at by telling us how you decided to cram another fish into an overstocked tank with ich?

 

[cloak]

"Well taken care of". I think you hit it.

As far as putting a small tang in a cramped tank, there was nobody in line. I didn't purchase it, I rescued it. I'm not saying don't quarantine, by all means, please do, it's just that there seems to be to many variables other than a "life cycle".

Party on...

 

[paulamrein]

Cloak, do you know why you can't catch a cold in Antarctica? Conditions in that place are far from pristine I would venture to say the most stress that can be put on a human, YET we can get no cold there. Why? because the virus can't live in those conditions and if it can't transfer to another host someone from Antarctica can't go into a closed environment when conditions are perfect and infect someone else or the enclosed environment!!! PERIOD!
People don't quarantine because they listen to people like you stuck in a particular mind set. Even scoffing about it. I didn't start QT until the wipe out, go to an LFS and the guy says he never QTs him being in the hobby for years I listened, only to find out that he goes through close to half of his population a year in restocking. I learned this because every fish I asked about he would say "Oh I had one of those they....etc. " I don't have that kind of money, he only had the liberty because he worked at an LFS part-time. I want to see a world where a QT is the same in this hobby as the skimmer. There will still be people that don't do it, like the skimmer, but atleast the impact on the hobby will be there. Which is why we pay 10 times more for salt than we do for fresh water fish.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12652599#post12652599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paulamrein
Cloak, do you know why you can't catch a cold in Antarctica? Conditions in that place are far from pristine I would venture to say the most stress that can be put on a human, YET we can get no cold there. Why? because the virus can't live in those conditions and if it can't transfer to another host someone from Antarctica can't go into a closed environment when conditions are perfect and infect someone else or the enclosed environment!!! PERIOD!
People don't quarantine because they listen to people like you stuck in a particular mind set. Even scoffing about it. I didn't start QT until the wipe out, go to an LFS and the guy says he never QTs him being in the hobby for years I listened, only to find out that he goes through close to half of his population a year in restocking. I learned this because every fish I asked about he would say "Oh I had one of those they....etc. " I don't have that kind of money, he only had the liberty because he worked at an LFS part-time. I want to see a world where a QT is the same in this hobby as the skimmer. There will still be people that don't do it, like the skimmer, but atleast the impact on the hobby will be there. Which is why we pay 10 times more for salt than we do for fresh water fish.

Very, very well said. If people used QT as an essential part of their system, like they use a skimmer we would no doubt save thousands of fish a year. Of course fish would still die of ich, of course some tanks would be unlucky enough to get ich and yes many people would still not QT but it would be much, much better.

I think if fish cost as much as corals, people would QT and protect their investments but unfortunately fish a relatively cheap and apparently expendable for to most people.

 

[cloak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12652599#post12652599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paulamrein
Cloak, do you know why you can't catch a cold in Antarctica? Conditions in that place are far from pristine I would venture to say the most stress that can be put on a human, YET we can get no cold there. Why? because the virus can't live in those conditions and if it can't transfer to another host someone from Antarctica can't go into a closed environment when conditions are perfect and infect someone else or the enclosed environment!!! PERIOD!
People don't quarantine because they listen to people like you stuck in a particular mind set. Even scoffing about it. I didn't start QT until the wipe out, go to an LFS and the guy says he never QTs him being in the hobby for years I listened, only to find out that he goes through close to half of his population a year in restocking. I learned this because every fish I asked about he would say "Oh I had one of those they....etc. " I don't have that kind of money, he only had the liberty because he worked at an LFS part-time. I want to see a world where a QT is the same in this hobby as the skimmer. There will still be people that don't do it, like the skimmer, but atleast the impact on the hobby will be there. Which is why we pay 10 times more for salt than we do for fresh water fish.

Just make sure that quarantine tank is of adequate size. Seen to many threads about puting a tang in a 75 gallon tank. Bet you that quarantine tank is half the size, if not smaller. There is just something about a happy healthy reef that turn those frowns upside down. By all means, __________.

:rollface:

 

[Bruno3047]

I used to work in the city and ride in on an express bus. Every fall/winter, I would hear various riders coughing/sneezing and, withouit fail, every October/November, I would come down with a nasty cold, usually accompanied by a respiratory infection.

Since I started working out of my home (8 years), I have yet to get a cold.

FWIW.

BTW. IMO, the "it's always there" argument is a rationiztion for people who are too lazy and/or too ignorant to prepare for new additions with a properly set-up QT.

 

[paulamrein]

Well cloak it is the weekend and it's 5 o'clock somewhere, not sure what you said or meant but knock one out for me would ya buddy

 

[paulamrein]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12652650#post12652650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
I used to work in the city and ride in on an express bus. Every fall/winter, I would hear various riders coughing/sneezing and, withouit fail, every October/November, I would come down with a nasty cold, usually accompanied by a respiratory infection.

Since I started working out of my home (8 years), I have yet to get a cold.

FWIW.

BTW. IMO, the "it's always there" argument is a rationiztion for people who are too lazy and/or too ignorant to prepare for new additions with a properly set-up QT.

I've also seen it with people with huge systems that rely on their water volume and shear size to help them, not to mention it would mean QTing 50+ fish. The people I know that say it's always there truly mean it in my experience, and it's just a grandfathered thought that you can read in some of the books and magazines out there. so I don't believe completely it's ignorance or laziness. I think it's the opposite that they feel they can provide oceanic conditions through there knowledge and hardwork, which is wrong, but they sure do come close. Doesn't help them with parasites but I've seen some killer corals in their systems that say it's always there.

 

[Bruno3047]

A tank could be infested to epidemic proportions, and corals would be oblivious to it's presence.

Ich only affects fish.