CuzzA's 125 Gallon Full Cylinder Glass Office Build
- Thread starter CuzzA
- Start date
Thanks Webmanny. I suspect the old setup did not have a single upgrade besides the return pump and air pump. So perhaps that's how they did it 20 years ago.
Nevertheless, this new setup will have all the latest and greatest and will be safe with a proper GFCI circuit, grounding probe, drip loops, etc.
Nevertheless, this new setup will have all the latest and greatest and will be safe with a proper GFCI circuit, grounding probe, drip loops, etc.
IrishTang
Member
I've been waiting for some updates on this build! The cylinder tank looks great. That previous tank was just scary, that thing was actually in a pediatric office? WOW. You are not only doing a great upgrade but possibly saving some lives in the bargain! That wiring, my god. Yea that is either rubber band filtration or noodle being used in place of bio-pellets, just another form of carbohydrates? actually very popular in Poland.
ichthyman
Active member
Should not mock what you don't understand or haven't experienced. The perspective of someone who has been in the hobby since long before the internet, name games and blue lights of today is needed. 
The "rubberbands" is thinly lathed off ribbon of plastic, usually PVC. Back in the day it was an economical and effective replacement to Bio-balls in a Wet-dry filter. "Bio-Bale" typically offers greater surface area with less clogging than most Bio-balls. The only downside was the bale tends to compress over time and needs occasional "fluffing" to maintain the high void space for excellent gas exchange. In the days of $30+ per gallon (~75-90 count) for Bio-Balls, Bio-Bale could be easily made/purchased for far less money and works equally as well if not better. If you couldn't afford replacing the DLS (look that one up for some more perspective) roll in your wet/dry with Bio-Balls and thought plastic hair curlers was tacky, Bio-Bale was the logical choice. Eventually, Bio-Ball's price dropped considerably and over time so has Bale's use. Alas, Video killed the Radio Star....yet again.:fun2:
The "rubberbands" is thinly lathed off ribbon of plastic, usually PVC. Back in the day it was an economical and effective replacement to Bio-balls in a Wet-dry filter. "Bio-Bale" typically offers greater surface area with less clogging than most Bio-balls. The only downside was the bale tends to compress over time and needs occasional "fluffing" to maintain the high void space for excellent gas exchange. In the days of $30+ per gallon (~75-90 count) for Bio-Balls, Bio-Bale could be easily made/purchased for far less money and works equally as well if not better. If you couldn't afford replacing the DLS (look that one up for some more perspective) roll in your wet/dry with Bio-Balls and thought plastic hair curlers was tacky, Bio-Bale was the logical choice. Eventually, Bio-Ball's price dropped considerably and over time so has Bale's use. Alas, Video killed the Radio Star....yet again.:fun2:
Interesting. I knew they weren't rubber bands. More so, just me mocking the appearance. I have no doubt though, it, among other things, were the likely cause of a complete blanket of cyanobacteria in the old setup. I am a little troubled by the lack of maintenance to this system by the service company. Just simple tasks like removing salt creep were completely ignored.
ichthyman
Active member
Bale or Ball, cyano is not the result of their presence. I maintain many commercial systems that rely on some form of artificial substrate for biological filtration and they're without excess Nitrogen-based compounds or blankets of red slime. The "bio-balls are a nitrate factory" mantra is a hobbyist perpetuated myth-information.
Perhaps, but I see no upside to artificial substrate for biological filtration if the tank is full of sand and live rock. Plus, IMO the statement of bio balls being a nitrate factory is not without some truth. For example, there is no denitrifcation happening with bio balls, so the nitrogen cycle is halted at the creation of nitrates. Furthermore, due to their shape bio balls will collect detritus, therefore, removing any possibility that the nutrients are exported by another way or recycled within the system by other creatures, unless they are regularly maintained. No different than leaving a filter sock in use for a month and wondering why nitrates have spiked. Obviously you know this and the systems you maintain likely get the best attention and servicing, but for the average hobbyist, they're not going to clean the bio balls as often as they should and probably should be avoided.
As far as this system goes, I cannot pinpoint the "bale" as being the sole culprit. Like I said there were definitely more issues, like no powerheads in the tank and probably old bulbs and shoddy maintenance, but the system had a very light bio load, only 4 juvenile fish. Who knows, it's water under the bridge at this point.
ichthyman
Active member
The caveats mentioned are issues of neglect and are not specific to artificial biological substrates. In fact, natural medias of rock and sand are just as prone to fouling. Not fully understanding the processes involved and how they translate to enclosed artificial environments usually coupled with a good amount of abuse/neglect is the true culprit of the "Nitrate factory" myth.
OK, I believe I have a pretty good plan for the sump. I've decided not to go custom and instead use a 20 gallon high. This will give me the perfect balance of access and back siphon volume. Plus it will provide me enough room for an 8 gallon custom ATO and a skimmate locker with an auto shut off relay.
Also, after reading many of Anthony Calfo's remarks on the remote deep sand bed and reading all the successes from others of nitrates dropping like a rock, I'm a firm believer every system should have one and thus I've incorporated one into this sump. It will be filled with oolite sand and maybe a fine layer of crushed coral if I find that the sand is blowing over the baffle.
The phosban reactor is simply there for convenience to add GFO or GAC as needed.
I would love to incorporate a filter bag, but that's just not practical on a office tank like this. However, the drain will flow directly to the skimmer pump intake. My hope is this will remove a lot of debris before it makes it to the RDSB. I thought about a collection/settling chamber for the drain, but the space just simply isn't there.
The skimmer has a nice design that I liked better than some of the other space saver models as they didn't have the waste line drain to use a waste collector. Being that this system will only be serviced every two weeks I believe a waste collector is essential to insure that the skimmer doesn't overflow and just dump all its hard work back into the tank.
I am a little concerned about the 8 gallon ATO not being able to last in between service calls, but it is what it is. There's only so much room. Checking the level and keeping RO/DI water on reserve will be part of my laminated check list for the staff.
I'm going to try and incorporate as many fail safes as possible. Of course the size of the cabinet and the lack of a controller creates some limitations, however I'll likely add things like a high level float switch/relay in the display to shut down the return in the event of a drain blockage. Perhaps a water bug alarm and other things like that. Of course door locks will be the first thing installed this weekend to keep the kiddos out of the sump.
Anyway, this is the plan.
Also, after reading many of Anthony Calfo's remarks on the remote deep sand bed and reading all the successes from others of nitrates dropping like a rock, I'm a firm believer every system should have one and thus I've incorporated one into this sump. It will be filled with oolite sand and maybe a fine layer of crushed coral if I find that the sand is blowing over the baffle.
The phosban reactor is simply there for convenience to add GFO or GAC as needed.
I would love to incorporate a filter bag, but that's just not practical on a office tank like this. However, the drain will flow directly to the skimmer pump intake. My hope is this will remove a lot of debris before it makes it to the RDSB. I thought about a collection/settling chamber for the drain, but the space just simply isn't there.
The skimmer has a nice design that I liked better than some of the other space saver models as they didn't have the waste line drain to use a waste collector. Being that this system will only be serviced every two weeks I believe a waste collector is essential to insure that the skimmer doesn't overflow and just dump all its hard work back into the tank.
I am a little concerned about the 8 gallon ATO not being able to last in between service calls, but it is what it is. There's only so much room. Checking the level and keeping RO/DI water on reserve will be part of my laminated check list for the staff.
I'm going to try and incorporate as many fail safes as possible. Of course the size of the cabinet and the lack of a controller creates some limitations, however I'll likely add things like a high level float switch/relay in the display to shut down the return in the event of a drain blockage. Perhaps a water bug alarm and other things like that. Of course door locks will be the first thing installed this weekend to keep the kiddos out of the sump.
Anyway, this is the plan.
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CREATIVE AQ TMP
New member
Just our 2 cents worth. If you are going with fish-only, a good bio system is important. I would not depend on deep sand beds to remove all the organic waste associated with a fish-only. Live rock will help but an office tank is prone to overfeeding and dead fish left over the weekend. We have been saved many times by lg bio towers when somehow specific instructions of feeding a pinch was translated to hand fulls. Also, with a fish only, you may need to be able to medicate the aquarium and a deep sand bed full of life will die and may cause ammonia spikes. Also, keep in mind ventilation. The cabinet does not show any ventilation. If this is an acrylic tank and no ventilation, expect the water temp to be well above 80 and office often turn the AC up to 78 on weekends and then the aquarium may reach over 90. Remember, the cabinet and canopy have to be able to breathe, if not the temp being a problem, wood swelling will be. Most free standing rectangular tank cabinet have open backs as do the canopies.
Cylinders are cool, but they do pose logistical problems.
Cylinders are cool, but they do pose logistical problems.
Thanks for the input Tom.
This tank will have some corals. Mostly weed corals like mushrooms, star polyps, xenia, corky finger gorgonian, etc. Basically stuff you couldn't kill if you tried. :lmao:
I'll probably add an auto feeder to eliminate staff error. I could use a suggestion here as the tank is serviced every two weeks, so enough food to last that long will be important.
As far as filtration goes I think my plan will be excellent. Skimmer, 100-200 lbs live rock, remote deep sand bed, GAC/GFO and smart stocking should work great. Plus the system will get a water change every two weeks.
All fish will be going through a rigorous qt. I'm putting a huge emphasis on keeping all parasites and disease out of the tank.
The cabinet has 3 cutouts for fans. 2 in the stand and 1 in the canopy. I have to say, the design of these tanks are very well thought out. Fortunately, this is a medical center that is open everyday until 9 pm so the AC is never cutoff. This is also a glass tank. So I believe temperature will not be a problem. Evaporation is really my biggest concern.
We'll see. Like any plan, one things for certain, it changes.
This tank will have some corals. Mostly weed corals like mushrooms, star polyps, xenia, corky finger gorgonian, etc. Basically stuff you couldn't kill if you tried. :lmao:
I'll probably add an auto feeder to eliminate staff error. I could use a suggestion here as the tank is serviced every two weeks, so enough food to last that long will be important.
As far as filtration goes I think my plan will be excellent. Skimmer, 100-200 lbs live rock, remote deep sand bed, GAC/GFO and smart stocking should work great. Plus the system will get a water change every two weeks.
All fish will be going through a rigorous qt. I'm putting a huge emphasis on keeping all parasites and disease out of the tank.
The cabinet has 3 cutouts for fans. 2 in the stand and 1 in the canopy. I have to say, the design of these tanks are very well thought out. Fortunately, this is a medical center that is open everyday until 9 pm so the AC is never cutoff. This is also a glass tank. So I believe temperature will not be a problem. Evaporation is really my biggest concern.
We'll see. Like any plan, one things for certain, it changes.
CREATIVE AQ TMP
New member
If simple reef with rock then your bio should not be a problem. If the tank is acrylic then good ventilation will be a must. Your filtration looks good. If it was me, I would rather have micron sock instead of the deep sand bad chamber. But that's just me. Four wave pumps set to operate in two different directions could spin the tank clock wise for a minute or two then counter clockwise. That would be awesome. One of the benefits of cylinders.
Good luck. It can be a cool tank. What lights are you doing?
Good luck. It can be a cool tank. What lights are you doing?
It's glass. Which was important given all of the kids that would come in contact with the tank.
Yes, the flow is going to be really cool. I love the look of fish circling the tank. Plus this will allow for a couple tangs and wrasses to really swim around and not hit a wall. I'm thinking about schooling bannerfish too. Perhaps 2-3. But I need to do more research on how well they do in captivity.
The challenge with the power heads will be attaching them to a circular overflow box. I'm hoping the magnets will be able to hold. Another option is the gyre. And yet another concern is the 36" depth of the tank. I certainly don't want any dead spots at the bottom of the tank. Trial and error is likely going to be the key here, but that's typical of any tank in terms of flow.
A filter sock would be nice, but space is limited and it would go two weeks before changing, so it would likely be counterproductive having waste sit for two weeks. I may put a fine mesh bag over the drain and see how that works.
Lights will be 2x 16" Chinese LEDs. The ones I purchased on eBay (according to the listing) have upgraded Bridgelux LED's rather than the typical Epistar and 60 degree optics. And at 30 cm out of water will hit 858 on a par meter. Obviously in the water and 36" is much different, but if I can clip 200 at 100% at the bottom I'll be happy. Hell, I've got mushrooms growing under a cheap cabinet light in my sump right now. I was amazed as I thought for sure they'd melt away.
It's funny, setting up tanks is about as equally rewarding as just enjoying an established reef. Especially challenging setups like this.
Btw, did you ever get that monster cylinder setup? Any pics?
Yes, the flow is going to be really cool. I love the look of fish circling the tank. Plus this will allow for a couple tangs and wrasses to really swim around and not hit a wall. I'm thinking about schooling bannerfish too. Perhaps 2-3. But I need to do more research on how well they do in captivity.
The challenge with the power heads will be attaching them to a circular overflow box. I'm hoping the magnets will be able to hold. Another option is the gyre. And yet another concern is the 36" depth of the tank. I certainly don't want any dead spots at the bottom of the tank. Trial and error is likely going to be the key here, but that's typical of any tank in terms of flow.
A filter sock would be nice, but space is limited and it would go two weeks before changing, so it would likely be counterproductive having waste sit for two weeks. I may put a fine mesh bag over the drain and see how that works.
Lights will be 2x 16" Chinese LEDs. The ones I purchased on eBay (according to the listing) have upgraded Bridgelux LED's rather than the typical Epistar and 60 degree optics. And at 30 cm out of water will hit 858 on a par meter. Obviously in the water and 36" is much different, but if I can clip 200 at 100% at the bottom I'll be happy. Hell, I've got mushrooms growing under a cheap cabinet light in my sump right now. I was amazed as I thought for sure they'd melt away.
It's funny, setting up tanks is about as equally rewarding as just enjoying an established reef. Especially challenging setups like this.
Btw, did you ever get that monster cylinder setup? Any pics?
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Postal
Active member
Bio- bale was seen as recently as CPR Bak-pak skimmers so it's not just you old-timers that should remember it.
Sincerely,
The Buggles
Ok, so here's my preliminary stocking list for what I would describe as a "Fish Only with Live Rock and Invasive Corals, except for one Torch."
Also, keep in mind, that unlike many home hobby tanks where the owner says, "I'll just upgrade the tank when the fish gets too big." and it never happens, the maintenance company has holding and qt tanks for his business. So swapping out an adult fish for a juvenile is not a problem. Also, I'm going to add an Eheim Automatic Feeder with a AA battery to AC electricity converter. I'll set it to feed the tank 3 times a day and hopefully the reservoir is large enough to hold food for two weeks in between servicing. This should help eliminate an overfeeding by a staff member and also sustain the anthias.
Here's some pics of the fish stock list, invert stock list and just a visual for my father in law to see the types of corals we'll be adding. I'm on the fence about adding photosynthetic gorgonians at the top of the tank. I may just go with artificial ones and because they'll be at the top of the rock work it would make pulling them to clean very easy.
Also, keep in mind, that unlike many home hobby tanks where the owner says, "I'll just upgrade the tank when the fish gets too big." and it never happens, the maintenance company has holding and qt tanks for his business. So swapping out an adult fish for a juvenile is not a problem. Also, I'm going to add an Eheim Automatic Feeder with a AA battery to AC electricity converter. I'll set it to feed the tank 3 times a day and hopefully the reservoir is large enough to hold food for two weeks in between servicing. This should help eliminate an overfeeding by a staff member and also sustain the anthias.
Here's some pics of the fish stock list, invert stock list and just a visual for my father in law to see the types of corals we'll be adding. I'm on the fence about adding photosynthetic gorgonians at the top of the tank. I may just go with artificial ones and because they'll be at the top of the rock work it would make pulling them to clean very easy.
nitr8
Active member
The following are in my experience and aimed to help you succeed. Please do not take offense. Anything you don't agree with simply chalk up as crazy forum myth but as stated, this is MY experience with some of the animals on your stock list. You don't have to agree with them but I am not trying to start a debate.
24 fish seems like a lot for this size tank
I believe the angels will keep your coral irritated at best.
Hippos commonly eat zoanthids.
The chromis will eventually kill each other.
The puffer will eat your inverts.
The shrimp will need to be purchased as mated pairs or they will kill each other although coexist individually.
Emeralds commonly eat zoanthids
Scarlet hermits will eventually kill all your snails
Brittle stars can get quite large and become fish eaters
Purchasing juvenile large fish with the intent to remove as the fish out grows the provided habitat should be avoided.
24 fish seems like a lot for this size tank
I believe the angels will keep your coral irritated at best.
Hippos commonly eat zoanthids.
The chromis will eventually kill each other.
The puffer will eat your inverts.
The shrimp will need to be purchased as mated pairs or they will kill each other although coexist individually.
Emeralds commonly eat zoanthids
Scarlet hermits will eventually kill all your snails
Brittle stars can get quite large and become fish eaters
Purchasing juvenile large fish with the intent to remove as the fish out grows the provided habitat should be avoided.
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But I do appreciate the input.
My goal, as with any tank, is to add a lot of biodiversity. Any chance I can throw some extra hitchhikers in when I visit for my sons check ups, I will.
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