Cyanide caught fish?

There are no confirmed cases of cyanide usage in the Caribbean that I am aware of.

This is the first time I have heard of this as well, I have heard of collectors using drugs and chemicals there but not cyanide. Most of the Caribbean collecting practices are very good but some collectors do use surfactants, bleach, dish soap, and alcohol to stun or flush out fish on the reef.
 
Thanks! The Mac group is trying there best. But part of the problem is they dont have enough collection site in the Philippines to supply the for the demand many exporters. I think if the US goverment Angency works together incooperation with the Philippines goverment. I am 99% sure there will be a huge decline in use of this chemical. Many reefs and dwarf and Large angelfishes will have a better chance of survival in the wild.

I have seen it done with the chemical chloroform user here. A couple of year ago anyone could buy this chemical but recently in the past year. You can't even buy this anywhere. No chemical distributer will sell it thus the supply have decline rapidly due to the ban against drugs many have switch an alternative chemicals to use it. See the point. It should work! Many Filipinos try to get away with things if they can but one has to inforce the law then the rest will follow.
 
So it looks like it might be hard to tell if a fish is really caught with cyanide or not. I don't like to support damaging practices, and I am happy to pay more for a fish if I know that it has a better chance of survival, let alone all of the other benefits that go along with net caught fish.

Part of my concern is that if I ask someone if their fish are cyanide caught, they might just say no, regardless of the truth.

It's also frustrating not really knowing what happens to these fish in the long run. There don't seem to be any clear answers. Does anyone know what cyanide does to mammals? Would this help us at all?
 
I've seen quite a few fish I suspected were poisoned over the years but short of doing tissue sampling there is no way of proving it. It has been said that up to 75% of cyanide poisoned fish die immediately and the rest generally have enough damage done to them that their lifespans are greatly shortened at best. From what I gather cyanide affects the bloods ability to carry oxygen by binding to the hemoglobin and organ failure from a lack of oxygen is what causes the actual death. There have been cases of cyanide poisoning in humans that eat a steady diet of cyanide caught fish, these people are unwittingly killing themselves in some cases.

Certain fish species are more prone to cyanide collection, those swift, wary and smart reef fish like tangs, angels, triggers, and groupers. Those fish that see a diver coming and seek refuge in the reef are those most likely to be collected with poison. If I were in the market for an angel I would definately avoid the "Indo-Pacific" label and would want to know exactly where my fish was coming from. I think most of the big online fish supply shops are pretty up front about where the fish are coming from, they have too much to lose to try and pass off sick fish. Another way to be sure to get a fish from a good collection area is to buy a fish like a Red sea regal angel or a personifer angel that only comes from these areas. Be prepared to pay a lot more for a fish that comes from a location/collector that properly hand catches its fishes.


I read that nearly 2/3 of all fish hobbiests polled said they would pay up to double the price if they could be guaranteed a healthy hand caught fish. By nearly the same margin the same respondents also said they didn't trust the fish industry to enforce any such system.
 
just dave said:
If the article is factual it will have you rethinking the whole cyanide/fish death scenario. Cyanide is bad but according to the article it's not doing what we think it is. I've read it a number of times and it makes some very good points. I hope someone has it. Makes me wish I'd kept all my old FAMA issues.
I am picking up a copy of that issue today. I just finished an article on cyanide myself and found a stunning lack of consistency on the research available on its effects on marine fishes. My article won't be out for a while yet, so I have time to amend it if this piece is relevant.
 
Yes, I agree. We do probably lack the consistency on the research available on its effects on marine fishes.

In general, try not to purchase all sizes of Emperator, Majestic, and Regal Angel fish from the Philippines. Eventhough they are eating. This particular fish in my opinion will not last more than 6 months the most maybe 1 year.

If the consumer stop buying this fish. Less exporter will order it from their suppliers who are coording the collection of this fish from the divers in their collection sites. And more important your investment is worth saying in the long run. No matter what QT or Medication you know. Cyanide caught fish will die in the long run. If its not the liver maybe some other part of the body will fail to funtion.

I know many of this angelfish are exported to Hong Kong and in many parts of the world. I hope temporaryly they can lift the ban particularly on the Large Emperator and Regal angelfish comming from the Philippines. I am worried this species will soon disapear if the collection continues because the divers who are uneducated hunt for the Large adults Emperator and regal everytime and sold to HK. Leaving no chance for it to reproduce in the wild.
 
StevenPro said:
I am picking up a copy of that issue today. I just finished an article on cyanide myself and found a stunning lack of consistency on the research available on its effects on marine fishes. My article won't be out for a while yet, so I have time to amend it if this piece is relevant.

That article runs counter to many of the things I've seen on the subject.

If IIRC the Australian (was it Goodwood?) did the study on MO and cyanide use. A once well known wholesaler took that info and an article was published in FAMA and at that point cyanide usage came to the forefront in this hobby and its use has been blamed for a variety of fish deaths/maladies ever since. Some years later the same Aussie published some more findings after doing some more testing and these findings seemed to reverse some of his earlier results ( I remember reading about it in Pet Product News.) Goldstein later published his article in FAMA and it gives a overview of the above studies and debunks some of the supposed myths surrounding the usage of cyanide. It does not defend its usage,just attempts to get the facts straight.

As with anyone pushing anything we must always look and ask " What's in it for them."

I'd be very interested in seeing your article and hearing your take on it all.

As with everything time and age may have altered my memory but that is how I recall it.
 
I got a chance to read that article today. Mostly he points out problems with the studies done on cyanide usage that I had already mentioned. Plus, Goldstein misses a few because he wrote his piece in 1997 and there have been a few additional studies done that are better.
 
I am an undergrad studying the social impacts of the aquarium fish trade in the Philippines. More specificaly something along the lines of how MAC has been doing excellent work in the collection areas, while very little has been done to promote the sale of certified marine ornamentals in the importing countries.

I believe that until consumer demand for inexpensive organisms decreases and demand for certified hand/net caught species increases, collectors in these countries will be forced to use unsustainable methods in order to elevate themselves from poverty.

I am very happy to see that this topic is generating some interest among hobbyists. We are the ones that make a difference in the long run by promoting a sustainable hobby or ignoring the effects of purchasing from an unreputable retailer.

I hope you all have been to MAC's website, they have a list of certified retailers, wholesalers, importers etc...The question now is how do we know the label has not been corrupted.

www.aquariumcouncil.org

Let me know if you guys have seen any other articles in hobbyist magazines etc. on this topic. I think I have access to the FAMA one mentioned above. Also Steven I would be very interested in reading yours.

Thanks a lot!

Breckie
 
I am an undergrad studying the social impacts of the aquarium fish trade in the Philippines. More specificaly something along the lines of how MAC has been doing excellent work in the collection areas, while very little has been done to promote the sale of certified marine ornamentals in the importing countries.
You might want to search around a bit more. MAC has its outspoken advocates and its detractors.
I believe that until consumer demand for inexpensive organisms decreases and demand for certified hand/net caught species increases, collectors in these countries will be forced to use unsustainable methods in order to elevate themselves from poverty.
I agree with this statement. Demand drives the supply. Buyers demand cheap fish, so that is what they get. But, there are conscientious aquarists who are savvy shoppers and a number of authors who try their best to educate the market to the problems.
I hope you all have been to MAC's website, they have a list of certified retailers, wholesalers, importers etc...
There are only 5 MAC certified retailers for all of the US.
http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/subpage.asp?page=130&section=3
Also Steven I would be very interested in reading yours.
My article is not finished yet. The rough draft is complete, but editing will take a while. It will likely appear in www.Reefkeeping.com but don't expect it until January 2006 at the earliest.
 
Thanks for the insight Steven,
I have been looking around a little more on hobbyist message boards, magazines etc...and as a scientist/student my perspective has been kind of biased in favor of MAC and the other NGOs involved, and until recently I had not noticed the dissatisfaction a lot of people have with MAC.

For the moment the focus of my study has shifted a bit to examine consumerââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s perspectives on the industry and the general publicââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s understanding of the complex linkages between stakeholders in the trade and so on (In fact I will be presenting on this at MO 06 next week in the Sustainability session). Will you be there? I would appreciate your comments.

Breck A. McCollum
 
Back
Top