Cyano-Nutrient Issue?

B

BuckeyeTodd

New member
I've had my reef up for over two years. The majority of that time I've had some level of cyano. It's primarily a sps tank, gfo ran constantly. Currently I'm vinegar dosing, and my non sps are dying off(I believe due to a lack of nutrients). I had cyano before I started vinegar dosing so I don't think its caused by that. I have over 50x turnover in my tank. The only way I've ever got rid of it is with chemi clean, but the cyano just returns 3-4 months later. My po4 tests 0.00 with Hanna, and I can't seem to feed enough to get it to raise(I'm about to drop the vinegar dose, though I'm only dosing about 60 ml's a day on a 150 gal tank). I've been running at 0.00 for a month now, and have lost about half my zoas and two acan colonies-one was over two years old, probably 80 heads. I've tried dosing microbacter to have a different bacteria culture, but no noticeable change.

Everything I read about cyano says its nutrient driven, and it dislikes flow. Well IMO my tank doesn't meet either of those criteria. I'm having to do a water change every two weeks to remove it so that it doesn't take over my tank. Normally water changes every other week isn't a problem, but I've got a newborn right now and would prefer to not have to do this.

Why can't I get rid of this stuff? What other potential causes and solutions are there?
 
This type of problem can be tough to solve, as you've seen. Do you have access to a microscope? You might be seeing dinoflagellates. How much food is going into the tank per day, and what kinds? Our test kits measure only nitrate and phosphate, and there can be other forms of fixed nitrogen and phosphate in a reef tank.
 
Check your lights. And see where the sun is relative to your tank, if a window is in line of sight. The blue number under my avatar has (keep scrolling) an article entitled Algae---I including cyano about midway through a relatively long list. It's usually not nearly as hard to get rid of as most algaes are. It's not really that nutrient dependent.
 
I dont believe cyano is mostly associated with light. Maybe I am wrong but my experiment with multiple tank at my LFS tend to show that cyano comes on when a tank does not have a good flow around.

It often resides on sand and live rock indicating nutrients are sinking or sticking on live rocks and dead coral bones. The most obvious proof is that whenever I have a stress out corals (lets say a cynarina) with bones protruding or showing, cyano will immediately grab the open white bone. So from this, we can actually see that cyano is organic dependant.

So when nutrient is not really pushed around and skimmed out, they can settle on the bottom especially on an area where the water is whirling. A good way to see whether an area is a dead spot is when you see a whirling debris on 1 spot by gently disturbing the sand in that area ( u can conduct a random check)

To get rid of cyano, i have done several methods:
1. Re arrange your live rocks and wave maker flow. Having 2 wave makers is a must I think. 1 is placed higher on water level blowing water towards water outlet and one is placed near the bottom (not too close of course so you blow your sands around) on the other side so the nutrient is flown up and around and the higher WM will eventually blow it in the water outlet.

2. Keep vacuuming the cyano whenever u see it and limit feeding. Cyano like other bacteria eats organic stuff. It's an ancient animal that can live and survive on a minimum condition. So you bet your dollar it can easily be available in your tank wheteher u like it or not.

3. Introducing more good bacterias as this will increase food competition for the cyano. I know prodibio says to dose their biodigest product for once every 2 weeks but when I have cyano problem I dose 1 ampule every 3 days. It works like a charm.

4. U can dose carbon in conjunction of bacteria dosing. if u feel to buy a good product, zeostart3 is a very good product. I know some people say carbon dosing contributes to cyano outbreaks but in my opinion it is not.

This also prove why some people say they have literaly no phosphat and nitrate but experiencing cyano. Other says their corals are healthy but cyano presents in their system.
 
Last edited:
bertoni said:
This type of problem can be tough to solve, as you've seen. Do you have access to a microscope? You might be seeing dinoflagellates. How much food is going into the tank per day, and what kinds? Our test kits measure only nitrate and phosphate, and there can be other forms of fixed nitrogen and phosphate in a reef tank.
Click to expand...

I don't have access that I can think of. I believe it is cyano due to its fluffy nature, and its red color. I could be wrong, but I'm 95% sure its cyano
 
Sk8r said:
Check your lights. And see where the sun is relative to your tank, if a window is in line of sight. The blue number under my avatar has (keep scrolling) an article entitled Algae---I including cyano about midway through a relatively long list. It's usually not nearly as hard to get rid of as most algaes are. It's not really that nutrient dependent.
Click to expand...

My tank does get ambient light. So you recommend lights out and cover tank for three days?
 
While I agree it can be hard to get rid of, I still believe that phosphate reduction and good flow(and limiting organic additions) are the best ways to reduce cyano. Clearly, it is getting phosphate from the water. Unless you are seeing problems with other organisms, I think you should push harder on phosphate with GFO or other methods.

Also, if this is the Hanna 713, 0.00 ppm could just as easily be 0.04 ppm, which is plenty for cyano. :)
 
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
While I agree it can be hard to get rid of, I still believe that phosphate reduction and good flow(and limiting organic additions) are the best ways to reduce cyano. Clearly, it is getting phosphate from the water. Unless you are seeing problems with other organisms, I think you should push harder on phosphate with GFO or other methods.

Also, if this is the Hanna 713, 0.00 ppm could just as easily be 0.04 ppm, which is plenty for cyano. :)
Click to expand...

This has always been my thoughts, but obviously it hasn't worked for me. Currently I'm losing LPS daily, which I'm attributing to vinegar/gfo.
 
About the light issue. I have a large window that I purposely open every morning to let the sun shine through my tank and I see no signs of cyano in that area. I think the phosphate issue would be my first step. How is your skimmer doing? Is your skimmate wet or thick?
 
I don't think flow has much to do with cyano IME. The highest flow in my tank where sand constantly moves is where I have cyano but it is also right in the line of sight of a window where it gets alot of ambient light. I went lights out during the day when I was working on my fixture and watched cyano grow throughout the day in the corner where the sun hits through the blinds.

What salt are you using?
 
My current skimmer is oversized and destroying right now. It is working as well as the super high end skimmers I've used in the past.

I just vaccumed the cyano out last night so I don't have a pic. It starts on one rock, and in two weeks it'll cover half my sand bed and occasionally other rocks. When I stir up my sand I don't see detrius. For flow I have two mp40's and a koralia 7, with a mag 9.5 return pump. Sand won't even stay in one corner of the tank.

I'm using Instant Ocean salt.
 
jbannick18 said:
I don't think flow has much to do with cyano IME. The highest flow in my tank where sand constantly moves is where I have cyano but it is also right in the line of sight of a window where it gets alot of ambient light. I went lights out during the day when I was working on my fixture and watched cyano grow throughout the day in the corner where the sun hits through the blinds.

What salt are you using?
Click to expand...

I've never had cyano that could not be blown off of whatever is was growing on.
 
Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Can you describe better what is happening to the LPS?
Click to expand...

Zoas are melting away, acans are rtn'ing to skeletons over the course of two days. My sps seem to be doing great, which is why I came to the conclusion that its a very low nutrient environment. I'm feeding more to make sure there is food supply, I've been feeding pellets and Rod's daily. I just watered down my kalk/vinegar ato and did a water change to get things back on the right track on that front hopefully.
 
BuckeyeTodd said:
Zoas are melting away, acans are rtn'ing to skeletons over the course of two days. My sps seem to be doing great, which is why I came to the conclusion that its a very low nutrient environment. I'm feeding more to make sure there is food supply, I've been feeding pellets and Rod's daily. I just watered down my kalk/vinegar ato and did a water change to get things back on the right track on that front hopefully.
Click to expand...

Sounds like what's going on with my tank now but mine is a little over 1 month old. Few of my zoas are closed up and expelling their polytoxin.
 
ivans75 said:
I dont believe cyano is mostly associated with light.
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree. In my experience, cyano is directly related to two things:

1. lighting period
2. dissolved organics in the water column (amount of food fed each day)

Cyano is less dependent elevated nitrates and phosphates and can still thrive when nitrate and phosphates are undetectable. Poor flow is also contributory but cyano can reside in higher flowing areas.


To the OP, how many hours a day is your lighting period? Cutting my MH lighting down to 7 hours a day worked wonders on my cyano problems. Although that fixed the vast majority of the problem, i still had some cyano issues. I tried GFO, upping the amount of flow, reduced feedings, 3 day blackout (which stressed out and killed a fish), vinegar dosing (which made my cyano problems worse and nearly killed my 6" maxima), over sized skimmer, etc and still had issues.

My cyano problems were solved by adding a Kole Tang and a Diamond goby to my 80 gallon reef tank. The Kole tang constantly pecks at the rock work all day, which keeps the rocks completely clean and prevents cyano from growing throughout the day. The Goby constantly sifts the sand and prevents any cyano buildup over time. Before those additions, I had to be very careful of how much I fed (half a cube of mysis a day and some nori) to prevent any cyano outbreaks. Now I feed my well stocked tank several times that amount and I no longer have cyano troubles. My solution probably won't work for everyone but I'd thought I'd share my experience since I know how frustrating cyano problems can be. :headwally:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Cyano and nutrients
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
11K
Elmareefer
E
R
How is my chemistry looking?
Replies
1
Views
195
Uncle99
Uncle99
R
dosing question
Replies
1
Views
99
kharmaguru
kharmaguru
Radicaljbr
Monitoring and dosing
Replies
1
Views
198
Uncle99
Uncle99
R
Red Cyano
Replies
4
Views
279
Brian60077
Brian60077
Back
Top