Cyano-Nutrient Issue?
- Thread starter BuckeyeTodd
- Start date
LiveStrongM3
New member
Just be sure the tank is covered! Diamond Gobies have a tendency to go carpet surfing if given the chance. I made screens using BRS clear netting to keep my tank covered. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/clear-1-4-screen-netting-7-x-3.html
Also many people forget to feed their gobies since they can starve to death once they have filtered out the sand bed. I use a turkey baster to spot feed mysis, pellets, etc.
BuckeyeTodd
New member
I've got no prob turning off my gfo, but what basis do you think this will affect cyano?
BuckeyeTodd
New member
and I tried a diamond goby, but my wrasse harrassed him till he died(and this fish was from another tank, so the odds should have been good)...and I've tried to trap the wrasse multiple times, no success.
alanbates12
New member
"Cyano" as it is commonly referred to is one or more species of cyanobatceria. It occurs commonly in almost every reef tank at some point, and is caused or encouraged by a number of reasons including:
Available nutrients - Especially phosphates and iron in this case.
Low flow/Dead Zone - Cyano prefers growing in low flow areas.
Warmer Water - Cyano tends to grow faster in warmer water than in cooler water
Low Alkalinity- While not a cause, higher alkalinity tends to discourage cyano growth.
Possible "contaminated" water source like tap water, that has nutrients fueling the outbreak
Available nutrients - Especially phosphates and iron in this case.
Low flow/Dead Zone - Cyano prefers growing in low flow areas.
Warmer Water - Cyano tends to grow faster in warmer water than in cooler water
Low Alkalinity- While not a cause, higher alkalinity tends to discourage cyano growth.
Possible "contaminated" water source like tap water, that has nutrients fueling the outbreak
Could you elaborate? Are you suggesting the GFO somewhat makes the problem worse?
BuckeyeTodd
New member
I have low nutrients.
I have high flow.
My water is 78, not sure what is considered warmer.
My alk is 10
My rodi is 0 tds, double checked with a handheld meter.
That is the point of this thread, I've dealt with this crap for two years and my tank doesn't have the usual suspects. In two plus years I've had little to no algae. If I had high nutrients at some point, I'd have those issues. The ambient light theory makes some sense.
Check this link out to ID what type of algae it is..since there is different types of cyano
http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=81
I just got rid of a bad cyano outbreak that I could not get rid of it like you was driving me mad. This is the course of action that I took which I am not saying is the right or wrong method its just worked for me...
I started to dose Prodibio biodigest and MB7 according to the directions.
I tried GFO and it did not work for some reason so instead I got some Seachem Seagel and put that in my reactor with low flow going through it so the carbon did not break apart..this I changed every 2 weeks.
I put a mesh bag of Purigen in my filter sock so it had flow going through it this I changed every 2 weeks
I put a mesh bag of GFO in my other filter sock so it had flow going through it this I changed every 2 weeks
I would skim wetter and clean my filter socks weekly I would soak them in hot water and vinegar let them dry and put them back in ( I have mesh filter socks)
Now in the tank when I did my water changes I made sure to scrub all the glass then took a tooth brush and scrubbed the patches on the rock. A little every week.
Finally I would suck out any sand that had the algae on it I felt my sand bed turned into a sewer and did this for a couple of weeks.
So with all that being said after about 3 weeks I had very minimal algae left and could begin regular feedings again. I also figured out that the type of algae I had would spread where constant flow would hit anything so I tried to very the flow around my tank as much as possible. Like I said above this seems like an extreme method of beating this algae but it did work and things have turned around for the better. One thing to remember when battling create a plan of attack and keep at it and you shall win.
Also make sure that your power heads are algae free like the type I had the power heads would just spread the algae around more
http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=81
I just got rid of a bad cyano outbreak that I could not get rid of it like you was driving me mad. This is the course of action that I took which I am not saying is the right or wrong method its just worked for me...
I started to dose Prodibio biodigest and MB7 according to the directions.
I tried GFO and it did not work for some reason so instead I got some Seachem Seagel and put that in my reactor with low flow going through it so the carbon did not break apart..this I changed every 2 weeks.
I put a mesh bag of Purigen in my filter sock so it had flow going through it this I changed every 2 weeks
I put a mesh bag of GFO in my other filter sock so it had flow going through it this I changed every 2 weeks
I would skim wetter and clean my filter socks weekly I would soak them in hot water and vinegar let them dry and put them back in ( I have mesh filter socks)
Now in the tank when I did my water changes I made sure to scrub all the glass then took a tooth brush and scrubbed the patches on the rock. A little every week.
Finally I would suck out any sand that had the algae on it I felt my sand bed turned into a sewer and did this for a couple of weeks.
So with all that being said after about 3 weeks I had very minimal algae left and could begin regular feedings again. I also figured out that the type of algae I had would spread where constant flow would hit anything so I tried to very the flow around my tank as much as possible. Like I said above this seems like an extreme method of beating this algae but it did work and things have turned around for the better. One thing to remember when battling create a plan of attack and keep at it and you shall win.
Also make sure that your power heads are algae free like the type I had the power heads would just spread the algae around more
alanbates12
New member
What are your Nitrate and P04 readings and can you double check them with a kit from a friend or LFS? It's just this statement from your first post, "My po4 tests 0.00 with Hanna, and I can't seem to feed enough to get it to raise" that concerns me. I've seen some bad reviews on the Hanna P04 checker. Also seen lots of good reviews but just was wondering if you could double check it. I would say the ambient light causes warmer water and that could be a cause. Also do you have a controller on your tank that will give you a graph of your temp over a week or month? I know before I started using my Apex, or noticed after the Apex was hooked up, my temp was up and down lots +/-3 degrees. I've since learned to control it with the Apex so it's a constant +/- 1 degree.
On another note what kind of CUC do you have established in your tank?
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alanbates12
New member
This sounds like good husbandry. A good regular cleaning schedule and being careful with how much you feed is key.
jimrawr
New member
Same for me
I'd personally stop the organic carbon dosing if you really believe that nutrients are too low for the zoos. As we've mentioned, you cannot know that is the case with the tests you have, but it is at least a hypothesis to try.
The reason I'd stop it and not the GFO is that cyano can feed off organics deriving energy from them, and GFO does not have that potential side effect.
The reason I'd stop it and not the GFO is that cyano can feed off organics deriving energy from them, and GFO does not have that potential side effect.
Sounds like a red turf algae to me. A picture would be helpful. Cyanobacteria is not fluffy and siphons easily..
Some have luck with Mexican turbo snails eating the turf variety and the cotton candy types of rhodophta( red algae/ there are around 6500 to 10,000 species of rhodophyta). It may be contirbuting toxins that are effecting some corals.
IME, the red red algaes I've had in my tank don't wane when PO4 is lowered as green algaes and cyano do.
This article may be of interest:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/nftt/index.php
IME, most cyano ( there are thousands of species, some are chemoautorophic, IIRC, many produce organic carbon via photosynthesis and many fix nitrogen) wanes with reduced PO4.
For zoanthidae a dip in 4parts tank water and 1 part standard hydrogen peroxide 3% solution for 5 minutes can help erradicate red turf algae.. The dip will also knock off most predators if any are there
Some have luck with Mexican turbo snails eating the turf variety and the cotton candy types of rhodophta( red algae/ there are around 6500 to 10,000 species of rhodophyta). It may be contirbuting toxins that are effecting some corals.
IME, the red red algaes I've had in my tank don't wane when PO4 is lowered as green algaes and cyano do.
This article may be of interest:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/nftt/index.php
IME, most cyano ( there are thousands of species, some are chemoautorophic, IIRC, many produce organic carbon via photosynthesis and many fix nitrogen) wanes with reduced PO4.
For zoanthidae a dip in 4parts tank water and 1 part standard hydrogen peroxide 3% solution for 5 minutes can help erradicate red turf algae.. The dip will also knock off most predators if any are there
reefgeezer
Active member
+1
I get it on one of my power heads when the GAC or GFO starts to get old or if I skip too many water changes. It grows differently than cyano. It starts out as a little patch that looks like cyano but you can't wipe it off. After a while it starts to thicken and becomes kinda fuzzy. Fortunately for me, it disappears when I correct the maintenance issues.
BuckeyeTodd
New member
This is the best pic I could get since I just suctioned as much as I could out. This will cover half my sandbed in two weeks, and a couple of rocks. I apologize about the poor picture quality.
I just went through something similar myself on my 230 reef. From a history perspective the tank was about 2 years ago a fish only live rock setup. It had a fair amount of green algae and elevated phosphates and nitrates. As I got into coral keeping I employed both GFO and Biopellets to pull down those levels. As a FOWLR I NEVER saw cyano, yet N and P levels were high. Over time the tank changed with those levels coming down and I began adding coral. The coral grew well, in particular softies and LPS. I kept up a high maintenance regimen and began to add SPS with success. Being somewhat linear in thinking, I went along with more of what's working is good, and employed an improved biopellet reactor, and continued GFO. My Phosphate levels eventually reached zero, as tested by any of the available hobbyist kits (Red Sea, Salifert, Elos,etc.) Nitrate continued somewhat elevated at 2-4 PPM (based on Lamotte kit as others would indicate zero). I noticed that some softies, like Xenia began to just melt away. Right around this point 3 months ago I had the mother of all Cyano outbreaks. It was well correlated with increased tumble and sloughing off from the pellets caused my constant tinkering in the search for perfection. The output of the pellet reactor does route directly to a large skimmer. The Cyano took me nearly 2 months to eliminate and did not improve until after I discontinued the pellets. I was suffering coral losses, and the Cyano frankly seemed aggressive and where it would get on a coral, in particular Monti's or Stylo's, it would cause polyp death and necrosis. After discontinuing the pellets, I noticed the water was now clearer, and I actually had LESS algae. The glass would stay fully clear for over a week. Cyano began recede. Sadly now my SPS in particular Acros, began to show STN from the base moving up. I figured it must be a low nutrient level given the lack of any algae growth. I began coral feeding and Amino Acid dosing, at lower than recommended levels, and immediately the Cyano came back with a vengance and the STN increased. I stopped all feeding. I finally thought I would try removing the GFO. That left me with no pellets, and no GFO, just a large amount of fresh ROX carbon. Within a week, the Cyano nearly completely receded, the SPS polyp extention increased and the STN stopped and began to reverse on a number of corals. I still can't detect phosphate levels, but now I get a light algae coating on the glass that makes me want to run the magnetic cleaners over the front after 3 - 4 days. Coral growth has now highly resumed on my SPS.
So a very long tale, but I draw, perhaps incorrectly, and clearly empirically, that the type of nutrients and carbon levels in the tank got out of balance. The DOC (carbon) introduced by the biopellets could be used by the bacteria, but not by algae or corals. PO4 became so depleted that corals were starving, while at the same time the bacteria load in the tank went very high and became pathologic . Another odd observation is that a 12 year old Passer angel in the tank began to show HLLE during this period, which reverted after discontinuing the pellets / GFO and just running fresh carbon. I again attribute this to excessive bacteria levels in the water.
My recommendation is that we need to be careful as we drive to ULNS systems, that we need to keep those low levels in careful balance. Unfortunately I don't believe we have all the tests available to us, as we can measure N & P to some degree, but other nutrient levels from sources like biopellets can not be tested with hobbyist grade tests. I also think that truly ultra low levels of P can be taking things too far.....
So a very long tale, but I draw, perhaps incorrectly, and clearly empirically, that the type of nutrients and carbon levels in the tank got out of balance. The DOC (carbon) introduced by the biopellets could be used by the bacteria, but not by algae or corals. PO4 became so depleted that corals were starving, while at the same time the bacteria load in the tank went very high and became pathologic . Another odd observation is that a 12 year old Passer angel in the tank began to show HLLE during this period, which reverted after discontinuing the pellets / GFO and just running fresh carbon. I again attribute this to excessive bacteria levels in the water.
My recommendation is that we need to be careful as we drive to ULNS systems, that we need to keep those low levels in careful balance. Unfortunately I don't believe we have all the tests available to us, as we can measure N & P to some degree, but other nutrient levels from sources like biopellets can not be tested with hobbyist grade tests. I also think that truly ultra low levels of P can be taking things too far.....
Man this is a play by play on how I had a full blown cyano outbreak..I introduced a "better" pellets reactor and my assumption was my skimmer could not handle things all that well and some of the outlet water from the reactor made it into the display further feeding the algae. Once I took the pellets offline and began my battle as described above did things turn around. I like you had corals STN from the base where the algae was man was it frustrating. I am not saying the pellets did not work I came to the conclusion that all not just some of the outlet water from the pellet reactor has to be introduced right into the skimmer some how in order to take full advantage of the pellets because they will create big problems in the tank.
