damsels

timrandlerv10

New member
i was looking at a small school of domino damsels, and since they're close to clowns, i was wondering if they were 'gendered' the same way--juvis, male then female?

thanks,
tim
 

Tomoko Schum

New member
Dominos, Dascyllus trimaculatus, are very very mean. They may be cute when they are babies, but they get pretty big (5-1/2 inches), too. Scott Michaels recommends against keeping damsels except for yellowtail demoiselle and Garibaldi outside of blue green chromis. Most of them start out as males and turn into females. They are so feisty that they will bite you when you stick your hand into their aquarium.

Tomoko
 

TOYTEK

New member
Tomoko, how do you remember all these fish facts? And you always seem to have a reference or two to go along with them. Even if you looked it up, 27 minutes is a pretty rapid response. I have trouble when people ask my phone #. :)
While we're on the subject (fishy facts, not my phone #) are the blue-green chromis hermaphroditic as well?
 

timrandlerv10

New member
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING!!!

a dollar says she could translate it to Japanese (accurately) in the time it takes me to type this reply...

they are so colorful and interesting, and many seem to have clownfish-like characteristics.

do they ever spawn in captivity?

they get aggressive...would a pair of small ones be able to hold their own with my female gsm? she's seems to have gotten a little persnickity lately...i wonder if having all three nems in that corner tank are crowding her, and she's just crying out for space!

in the 75 would a pair of damsels have enough room that they would be able to stay away from her? (she doesnt chase far from her nem now, but there isnt anywhere that IS far from her nem now...) would any other inverts have issues with them? dragonettes?

thanks,
tim

ps--hope to see you tomorrow! (snow permitting!)
 

NicoleC

New member
Your GSM female is not space deprived -- in the wild they live in very small spaces, and host anemones in her space certainly isn't going to make her uncomfortable! They need more space than a percula or ocellaris clown, but that's only because maroon clowns eventually get so much bigger. A 20g tank is plenty for a full grown pair.

The problem is GSM females are aggressive and often downright mean. Kind of like those "damn-sels." Maroons are particularly vicious once they start spawning. If your GSM hasn't drawn your blood yet, she's just getting started.

Damsels do spawn in captivity from time to time, but are very difficult to raise and few have succeeded at it.

Given the likelihood of the the clowns and damsels fighting (they are really they same group of fish), I wouldn't mix the two. There are plenty of great fish your clowns will generally ignore and can cohabitate with peacefully. Plus, those pretty little damsels are awful ugly when they grow up.
 

Tomoko Schum

New member
Here's the picture of my yellowtail damselfish. Aren't they cute?

12-29-07009.jpg


Blue devils and some other damselfish are known to kill each other by constantly attacking and stressing each other. You often end up with just one in the end.

However, the yellowtails and Azure demoiselle are not as pugnacious and they can be kept in a small group in an aquarium. They find their own nooks and they don't school. But their colors are so vivid and I find them worthwhile to have a few in there. I happened to have five of them.

I doubt if we could ever be able to raise damselfish babies in our aquarium. WEEC's Sergeant major are always spawning but even with the water volume and bio diversity no larvae survives.

What fish do you want? It's really up to you.

I like schooling cardinalfish in Apogon family, such as Apogon cyanosoma, A. leptacanthus, and A. parvulus.

I understand that Chromis viridis is hermaphrodic.

Tomoko
 
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prncalbrt

New member
speaking of highly intellegent women......that Nicole is on the top of the mountain also....:) I couldnt retain that much info even if I used an external hard drive ......lol
 

TOYTEK

New member
I agree, there is a great wealth of knowledge in North Alabama- must be something in the water. But wait Tomoko is from Japan right? And didn't Nicole move from California a year or so ago? maybe it's something in the Pacific Ocean water. :D
Or maybe they've just been in this hobby a lot longer than me.
BTW, Tim sorry for the hijack.
 

TOYTEK

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11633844#post11633844 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by timrandlerv10
so what fish do i want?

:)
A colorful flasher wrasse or pair would be a nice addition, as long as the GSM is ok with that. Or, if money's no object there's always the Helfrichi Firefish. Why not pay $160 dollars for a fish that looks almost exactly like an $18-24 fish, right?
 
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timrandlerv10

New member
1) i think all these smart pac-rim women are attracted so funny country boys. (anyway, i'm stickin to it...)
2) i like the orangestiped cardinal
3) i also liked the yellowtail and the 'not a yellowtail' damsels
4) i still want a dragonet, but i want to make sure we have tons o' pods first

i got a diatom filter (not the whole 'filter' just the paper part) and i'm going to tap it on the end of one of the downtubes, and run the circulation system for about 12 hours sunday, and use another PH to blow off the rocks and see what silt i can get out.

other than that, the water tests well, and some fish-type is going in on monday!!!
 

timrandlerv10

New member
others randomly plucked off the web:
purple firefish (jumper, eats live food off rocks--mandarin competitor)
firefish (same)
jeweled damsel (angry fish)
black combtooth blenny (incompatible with other blennys? blennies?)
christmas wrasse (jumper)
spotted cardinal
clown goby-citron (needs sps/acros to be happy, no other gobies)
niger triggerfish (needs hard foods, other fish)
bicolor angel (not reef safe)
lemonpeel angel (ditto)
squareback anthias (75 too small? color fades with bright light?)
chalk bass (nothing wrong?!)
any shrimp goby (jumper!)
springer pseudochromis
neon gold goby


i think i just need a couple more tanks and this wouldnt be an issue...


tim
 

timrandlerv10

New member
:(

you picked the only 'nothing wrong' fish on there!!!

i'll be back later...since everyone else seems to be in nashville, i'm going to go post 'can i mix btas and sebaes?' on the anemone forum...

just kidding!

so whats the chalk pair story? AND...they pair in tanks, so thats even another plus!

what did you like off that list?
 

NicoleC

New member
I picked the two chalk basslets from a store tank where they had been for months with no apparent aggression issues. In QT, they competed fiercely for food and chased each other around, but it seemed manageable AND it was a tight space.

Once in the many tank, first one disappeared, and I blamed the other. Then I saw the remaining basslet kept trying to eat the clowns' eggs, which the clowns defended vigorously. He was whupped numerous times but never got the message. After the female clown (who was actually smaller than the basslet) finally beat the remaining chalk basslet bloody (he died within hours), I decided maybe the first disappearance had a different source.

I also decided that perhaps basslets aren't very bright. :D It's not as if ample food didn't rain from the surface two or three times a day.

So no, they didn't pair up. Not that I could tell.

Ah for which fish to get, well, there's no such thing as the perfect fish. Can you sum up the fish you have now and also add any others you hope to get in the future other than a mandarin?
 

timrandlerv10

New member
mated non-spawning 2 year old gsm's, foxface lo, 3 chromis, 3 bta.

garden reef :(

i would like to add a mandarin, and in my nano i'm putting my first fish in, a rainfordi goby.
 

timrandlerv10

New member
after further thought, i realized i didnt really answer your question...at all... :)

i think i would like fish that would pair and even more so, spawn. i would also like fish that anybody that comes to my office could enjoy aesthetically...i know sometimes i enjoy fish for their 'story' moreso than their colors. (sidenote: i hope i think that way about people!)

...fish that are not so common...fish not named 'dory'...not the "when the person comments on how beautiful my green bubble corals are, they then say 'oh is that a yellow tang?'" type fish...fish that dont change as dramatically as koran angles as they age (so awesome as juvis!)...fish that maybe have different colorings for males and females (like some anthias, etc)...

other than that, i'm not really sure what i want

tim
 

Tomoko Schum

New member
You should get yourself a good reef fish book. I think that Scott Michael's Reef Aquarium Fishes is a good one for you for finding what fish would be great for your aquarium. It's not an in-depth how-to book, but a really great quick reference type book.

Display reef tanks and fish breeding do not really go together. If you want your clownfish to spawn, you need to feed them a lot - wonder what that does to the rest of the tank?

The only other fish that a hobbyist can breed easily would be Banggei cardinal. There again you must be prepared to scoop up babies quick or else they will be fish food (their mom is the first one to feed on them :( . )

If you want to breed fish, you should try fresh water. Some small cichlids are very pretty and they raise their own young for you. It's very cute when the parents parade their babies up and down the tank to forage.

Tomoko
 
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NicoleC

New member
Don't write off your clowns just yet -- 2 years is still pretty young for the Premnas clowns to be breeding. As Tomoko said, they needs lots of high quality food and very stable conditions.

I am guessing you don't want to raise fish (yet), you just want the relationship?

The only two fish I can think of that will likely pair and spawn and don't compete with another fish you have already are neon gobies and clown gobies. Neon gobies tend to live short lives (2-3 years or so) but are cute and outgoing and will be perched in site often. Or at least one of them will -- I'm not sure which one tends the eggs, but you don't see that one much. If they don't mate, they will coexist peacefully.

Clown gobies will set up house in an acropora and are the easiest to mate since they switch off from male to female and vice versa at any time. You would need a larger acropora since they are obligate coral dwellers. They will strip some flesh off the coral at the base to lay their eggs, but it won't harm a healthy and reasonably sized coral.

Cardinals are another option.

You might also consider a goby/shrimp pair if your goal is more to see relationships than eggs.

Another option might be to acclimate some mollies to saltwater. They will breed... and breed and breed. They are technically a brackish fish, so they can do fine SW although you will usually see them sold acclimated to freshwater. You will need to acclimate them to SW very slowly but no special care from then on except to be sure they have enough algae to eat. You need a male and 3 or 4 females, with only 2 fish the male will breed the female to death. (I have seen SW acclimated mollies for sale, but they are the exception.)

Red-headed gobies are also pretty cool and will spawn in captivity, but I don't know the method of mating them up.

The blue and yellow assessors are much more peaceful than the chalk basslets. The live in the wild in harems of one male to several females, but there's no know way to sex them, so it's rather hit or miss. The yellow assessors are strikingly pretty.
 

Tomoko Schum

New member
Clown gobies will irritate the heck out of acropora. While they may not kill the host acro, the acro will look really sad - all closed up and sulky with polyps missing here and there. They also like to eat copepods. My yellow clown gobies never seemed to touch any prepared food :( I am afraid that I am not a good fish whisperer.

My neon gobies live in my overflow of 120. They were always happy in my 15, but every time I get one for my 120, they go live in my overflow :( If you tend to move things around in your tank at lot, they tend to jump out (I lost a couple that way from my 15G). I love them, but I can't have them in my high-flow high-light tank.

A shrimp goby and a alpheus shrimp are great together. I see them in my 15G all the time. In my 120, I have to look for them since they have quite a few tunnel opening. They seem to rotate around among their entrances. I can guess generally which entrance they are hanging out at by looking for the freshly dug sand pile.

If you really want to breed and raise fish, I highly recommend that you try to horn your skill with some fresh water fish first. Their eggs tend to be much larger and therefore their fry are large enough to start with bbs, which is a great help. The same technique works for both fresh water and salt water for conditioning a mated pair and growing out young.

Tomoko
 
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