Dangers of Medicating Healthy Fish?

[rhendrix12]

I am 90% positive my Blue Hippo Tang has ICH. He has white spots on his body (some days more than others) as well as a continuos flicking against rocks and the sand. However, he continues to eat well and seems to swim OK, sometimes he seems to sway from side to side like he is drunk.

I am setting up a 29 gallon QT tonight. I am going to put some water from my DT in it as well as a mechanical filter pad I have in my sump. I am going to put the tang in the QT and medicate with copper probably tomorrow. Is that too quick?

If the tang happens to not be sick, will placing it in a QT for a couple of weeks and medicating it do it any harm? If it has any other disease other than ICH, will the copper be OK for it?

 

[Dmorty217]

Your description of flashing sounds like ich for sure. I would treat the fish and either treat the DT or leave fish less for 72 days

 

[julie180]

If you just treat the tang, your DT will still be contaminated and it will just get reinfected. Either treat all your fish and leave the DT fallow for 72 days, or don't waste your time.

 

[rhendrix12]

Your description of flashing sounds like ich for sure. I would treat the fish and either treat the DT or leave fish less for 72 days

Ok, then I am going to quarentine the tang.

As far as the DT, I am sure it is in there, although no signs yet of other fish having it. I simply cannot take all my fish out, unless I can put a tang, 3 clown, 2 wrasse, fox face lo, 3 chromis and mandarin all in a 29 gallon QT tank.

Since that is probably not possible, my LFS recommended Kick-Ich. Said its reef and fish safe. So I am thinking of just dosing that in my DT while I have my hippo quarantined.

 

[Dmorty217]

Ok, then I am going to quarentine the tang.

As far as the DT, I am sure it is in there, although no signs yet of other fish having it. I simply cannot take all my fish out, unless I can put a tang, 3 clown, 2 wrasse, fox face lo, 3 chromis and mandarin all in a 29 gallon QT tank.

Since that is probably not possible, my LFS recommended Kick-Ich. Said its reef and fish safe. So I am thinking of just dosing that in my DT while I have my hippo quarantined.

Any "Reefsafe" ich cure isn't going to work. Kick ich included.

 

[snorvich]

Any "Reefsafe" ich cure isn't going to work. Kick ich included.

This.

 

[rssjsb]

Ok, then I am going to quarentine the tang.

As far as the DT, I am sure it is in there, although no signs yet of other fish having it. I simply cannot take all my fish out, unless I can put a tang, 3 clown, 2 wrasse, fox face lo, 3 chromis and mandarin all in a 29 gallon QT tank.

If you follow this strategy, you may as well rehome your tang once you've treated him because he'll have another outbreak once you return him to your DT.

Pulling your fish out and treating them is a major PITA, but it's the only way to avoid an ich groundhog day. Your small fish might be ok in the 29. Depending on how big your tang and foxface are, you may want to try to pick up a cheap used 40 or 55 gallon for the QT.

 

[rhendrix12]

If you follow this strategy, you may as well rehome your tang once you've treated him because he'll have another outbreak once you return him to your DT.

Pulling your fish out and treating them is a major PITA, but it's the only way to avoid an ich groundhog day. Your small fish might be ok in the 29. Depending on how big your tang and foxface are, you may want to try to pick up a cheap used 40 or 55 gallon for the QT.

Ok, so I will QT all of them then. But next problem, how in the world do I get them out?? I barely can put my net in without them swimming away.

 

[ThRoewer]

The alternative I prefer is just to have no tangs.
For once most reef tanks are just way too small for such hyperactive fish and especially the Acathurus and Paracanthurus species are extremely vulnerable to ich and other skin parasites.
Paracanthurus hepatus (Blue Hippo) is the worst - I can't remember to have ever seen one without ich at a store.

If you want to keep that one you better follow Steve's quarantine procedures to the letter, not just until your fish and tank are ich free but for every fish, coral, snail, crab, live rock or any other wet item you plan to add to your tank later.

If that's too hard for you I would recommend to return the tang to the store.

 

[rssjsb]

Ok, so I will QT all of them then. But next problem, how in the world do I get them out?? I barely can put my net in without them swimming away.

Yeah, that is by far the worst part. I had to tear down my entire 165 - including dismantling all of the pillar structures I had built - down to the sand to get all my fish out when I went through this. It wasn't pretty. But remembering that makes it easier to QT.

 

[rhendrix12]

If I am not able to save this tang it will more than likely be my last, even though I love them I do not want to cause them any harm. From now on I will be putting everything in a QT before my DT. I guess thats part of the hobby, trying, making mistakes and learning from them. Just wish I would have learned sooner. No one to blame but myself. Anyways...

Here are my 2 options, please let me know which seems best, because I am afraid my time is running out...

OPTION 1
1. Take out all my corals and rocks and put them in a temporary holding station (cooler)
2. Drain the water down to almost empty
3. Capture group 1: 3 clowns, 3 chromis, 1 wrasse and goby, and put them in another cooler
4. Capture group 2: Tang, foxface lo, 1 wrasse, and mandarin, and put them in another cooler.
5. Acclimate group 2 to a 29 gallon QT and acclimate group 1 do a 10 gallon QT
6. Go back and put my rocks and corals back into DT
7. Leave fish in the two separate QT for 6 weeks

OPTION 2
Everything the same in option 1 except put ALL my fish in my one 29 gallon QT

P.S. Do I need to take out all my shrimp, hermits, snails, etc.??

 

[jbvdhp]

Dangers of Medicating Healthy Fish?

Yeah, that is by far the worst part. I had to tear down my entire 165 - including dismantling all of the pillar structures I had built - down to the sand to get all my fish out when I went through this. It wasn't pretty. But remembering that makes it easier to QT.

You know, now that I am going thru this PITA procedure, it's actually not such a PITA anymore. In hindsight, constantly buying water, equipment, salt, mixing, waking up, losing fish, being disappointed, that's a major PITA, so in reading your post... QT is never a bad idea anymore. Sure, our little fish don't get to go into a reef right away, but at least we save them and trouble!

 

[Spar]

If I am not able to save this tang it will more than likely be my last, even though I love them I do not want to cause them any harm. From now on I will be putting everything in a QT before my DT. I guess thats part of the hobby, trying, making mistakes and learning from them. Just wish I would have learned sooner. No one to blame but myself. Anyways...

Here are my 2 options, please let me know which seems best, because I am afraid my time is running out...

OPTION 1
1. Take out all my corals and rocks and put them in a temporary holding station (cooler)
2. Drain the water down to almost empty
3. Capture group 1: 3 clowns, 3 chromis, 1 wrasse and goby, and put them in another cooler
4. Capture group 2: Tang, foxface lo, 1 wrasse, and mandarin, and put them in another cooler.
5. Acclimate group 2 to a 29 gallon QT and acclimate group 1 do a 10 gallon QT
6. Go back and put my rocks and corals back into DT
7. Leave fish in the two separate QT for 6 weeks

OPTION 2
Everything the same in option 1 except put ALL my fish in my one 29 gallon QT

P.S. Do I need to take out all my shrimp, hermits, snails, etc.??

a 10g will be too small for Group 1, IMO. I know space is going to suck, but really should consider doing both as 29g's, or at least a 20g and 29g.

you need to:
1. remove fish
2. leave DT fallow for 72 days
3a. in the mean time, treat your fish with copper or CP (TTM is likely going to be too much work for you as an option), or maybe Hypo if you want to play your chances.
3b. QT the fish in their respective tanks for the remainder of the 72 DT fallow period

you can keep all non-fish (hermits, coral, snails, etc) in your DT during the fallow period.

 

[rhendrix12]

a 10g will be too small for Group 1, IMO. I know space is going to suck, but really should consider doing both as 29g's, or at least a 20g and 29g.

you need to:
1. remove fish
2. leave DT fallow for 72 days
3a. in the mean time, treat your fish with copper or CP (TTM is likely going to be too much work for you as an option), or maybe Hypo if you want to play your chances.
3b. QT the fish in their respective tanks for the remainder of the 72 DT fallow period

you can keep all non-fish (hermits, coral, snails, etc) in your DT during the fallow period.

Someone told me ICH would ALWAYS be in my tank no matter what I did. If this is the case, what would be the point in going through all that just so my fish will get it again when they are introduced back into my DT?

 

[Deinonych]

Someone told me ICH would ALWAYS be in my tank no matter what I did. If this is the case, what would be the point in going through all that just so my fish will get it again when they are introduced back into my DT?

That's an old reefing bromide that keeps being perpetuated by the uninformed. The only way ich can exist in a tank is if it is introduced. It doesn't magically appear or persist, and it can be prevented with proper quarantine procedures.

 

[snorvich]

That's an old reefing bromide that keeps being perpetuated by the uninformed. The only way ich can exist in a tank is if it is introduced. It doesn't magically appear or persist, and it can be prevented with proper quarantine procedures.

Exactly.

 

[Nina51]

That's an old reefing bromide that keeps being perpetuated by the uninformed. The only way ich can exist in a tank is if it is introduced. It doesn't magically appear or persist, and it can be prevented with proper quarantine procedures.

this!!! drives me crazy every time i see somebody post that ich is present in every tank. i don't understand the logic (or lack thereof)!

 

[rhendrix12]

this!!! drives me crazy every time i see somebody post that ich is present in every tank. i don't understand the logic (or lack thereof)!

Ok, I know that didn't sound right! Glad to get that cleared up. Another thing that has been confusing me, I have heard people say, it in a tank is OK, and eventually your fish will get immune to it. True?

Also, my tang no longer has white spots... I know that the ich is still in the tank, but does that mean the tang is over the ich? Or only a certain stage of it? How will I know if he survives it or not?

 

[Spar]

Ok, I know that didn't sound right! Glad to get that cleared up. Another thing that has been confusing me, I have heard people say, it in a tank is OK, and eventually your fish will get immune to it. True?

Also, my tang no longer has white spots... I know that the ich is still in the tank, but does that mean the tang is over the ich? Or only a certain stage of it? How will I know if he survives it or not?

No fish will gain an actual immunity, not like this is something that antibodies will assist with. Resistance is a better used word, and even that is only going to hold true as long as the fish stays healthy -- good immune system, well fed, low stress, etc. Many people deal with Ich in their tank without major issue. All it takes is one event to trigger the Ich to take over though.

A couple possibilities of the Ich on the fish -- (1) the first wave all jumped off and are currently in the tomite/cyst stage, ready to hatch and give a furious 2nd wave (more parasites this time) or (2) the fish is healthy and is battling them just fine, strong slime coat, etc.

 

[rhendrix12]

No fish will gain an actual immunity, not like this is something that antibodies will assist with. Resistance is a better used word, and even that is only going to hold true as long as the fish stays healthy -- good immune system, well fed, low stress, etc. Many people deal with Ich in their tank without major issue. All it takes is one event to trigger the Ich to take over though.

A couple possibilities of the Ich on the fish -- (1) the first wave all jumped off and are currently in the tomite/cyst stage, ready to hatch and give a furious 2nd wave (more parasites this time) or (2) the fish is healthy and is battling them just fine, strong slime coat, etc.

Would you know when I would know the difference?