DC Pumps - too soon or make the switch?

[JSimpson]

Hello All,

I've seen a lot of good info (and some not so good) regarding the DC pumps. I've been thinking about upgrading my 90 gallon from the current Mag5, which is pretty weak, to a Speedwave DC-3000. Seems like the technology is relatively new in this market and I'm wondering if I should wait it out for the inevitable product evolution or go ahead and make the switch? From what I've seen, the pumps have only been out around a year or so, of slightly dubious manufacturing quality, and nobody has any idea what the average lifespan of these pumps is.

Looking strictly at amperage, compared to upgrading to a Mag7, the DC pump looks like it would payoff completely in about 3 years. Annual electricity savings on the DC-3000 vs. Mag 7, would just about equal out the price difference in 1 year if the DC-3000 costs $120 and the Mag7 costs $70.

So, long story short - go with the unproven Speedwave DC pump or wait a year or so until some historical experience starts to show up? Coolness factor alone makes me want to switch over to the DC pump, but don't want to kick myselft a year from now for not waiting for the technology to mature.

 

[Ron Reefman]

It's not like DC pumps are a new technology as much as just new to the aquarium trade. I got a DC powered Jebao WP40 wave maker powerhead which is controlable, for $100 delivered from China. I agree with most people about Jebao being a less than best quality manufacturer (and awful at customer service). And it's a cheap version of the Tunze 6105 wave maker that sells for $335. It's been running in my tank for 3 months now, it hasn't missed a beat and it's dead quiet. So right now I'm a big fan. But on the other hand, it could quit tomorrow and prove all the skeptics right... I'm just betting against them. Only time will tell.

So are you an early adopter who likes to gamble a bit and try new things? Or are you more conservative and want to buy proven technology? It's a choice only you can make.

 

[bayoupr]

I have a Waveline 10,000 running on my manifold about 8 months now and it is silent and no issues.

 

[ganjero]

It's not like DC pumps are a new technology as much as just new to the aquarium trade. I got a DC powered Jebao WP40 wave maker powerhead which is controlable, for $100 delivered from China. I agree with most people about Jebao being a less than best quality manufacturer (and awful at customer service). And it's a cheap version of the Tunze 6105 wave maker that sells for $335. It's been running in my tank for 3 months now, it hasn't missed a beat and it's dead quiet. So right now I'm a big fan. But on the other hand, it could quit tomorrow and prove all the skeptics right... I'm just betting against them. Only time will tell.

So are you an early adopter who likes to gamble a bit and try new things? Or are you more conservative and want to buy proven technology? It's a choice only you can make.

This is strange, Ron pushing Jebaos...:deadhorse:

THE OP is referring to return pumps; the only thing that makes sens in you response is "It's not like DC pumps are a new technology as much as just new to the aquarium trade", which is the answer to the OP. These kind of pumps have been used in Water Treatment Plants for years. IT seems that DC return pumps make more sense everyday for several reasons, and yes I would replaced a any mag pump with a Speedwave DC pump

This is the manufacturer's website if you want more info http://www.rlss.ca/ (fyi speedwave and waveline are the same pumps)

 

[JSimpson]

OK, I think I'm going to go ahead and order one. My only real concern is reliability/lifespan of these pumps (or the controllers), but if it lasts 3 years it will have paid for itself in electricity savings alone. Not to mention the added bonus of having something new to mess with on the tank!

 

[wildman926]

I've seen a lot of good info (and some not so good) regarding the DC pumps.

My only real concern is reliability/lifespan of these pumps (or the controllers), but if it lasts 3 years it will have paid for itself in electricity savings alone. Not to mention the added bonus of having something new to mess with on the tank!

For the very reasons you have outlined, is why I will personally wait before purchasing a new DC return pump.

Sicce Syncra's are proven to be silent and long wearing. Until the DC pumps have that under their belt, I will spend my money on those pumps to upgrade for now. JMHO and HTH

 

[Drae]

ATB is switching to dc. Hmm? I wonder why a skimmer staple in this industry is doing so? Maybe because they're great pumps.

 

[scuzy]

Dc pumps are more energy efficient as well. I can vouch that it's dead silent. I own a speedwave 3000 and a Diablo dc10500

 

[wildman926]

ATB is switching to dc. Hmm? I wonder why a skimmer staple in this industry is doing so? Maybe because they're great pumps.

Dc pumps are more energy efficient as well. I can vouch that it's dead silent. I own a speedwave 3000 and a Diablo dc10500

Great performance, lower wattage, all good characteristics for reasons to buy. But they still do not have the longevity under their belt yet. Once they are known to last more than 2 years it will have my attention.

 

[MrIcky]

I am not vouching for any specific brand because I have no idea how good speedwaves are specifically, but this isn't some new technology like LEDs. They've been using them on public park type water fountains for 20 plus years because they are so much safer if you have a fault.

 

[JSimpson]

Thought I would post an update here. Went ahead and ordered the Speedwave DC-3000 from Premium Aquatics for $119 over the weekend, and it was on my doorstep tonight when I came home. I had already made up a PVC return, including a T going to a 1/2" barb to feed my TLF GFO reactor. I had a brute trashcan with RODI water for an upcoming water change, so figured I would test the new pump out. Had a Mag5 running, which as most probably know, can be heard from across the room running in a Brute. Swapped out with the new pump, hooked everything up, hit the "+" button to check it out ... and nothing ... or so I thought. As I had read before, these pumps have a very soft start, so I didn't know it was running until I noticed the water in the trashcan was swirling! Let it run a bit, then moved to the tank with the new manifold and she fired up and ran like a kitten.

Startup is very deceptive - seems like very little flow, but ramps up over about 30 seconds or so to a nice flow. Even with the flow to the GFO reactor, the pump does seem to flow more then the Mag5, and is about as close to dead silent as can be. I do have it sitting on a 1/8" rubber mat to dampen vibrations. So now I have gone from a Mag5 plus MJ600 running GFO, to just the one DC-3000 which should be pulling about half the power. As long as it lasts a few years or so, it has paid for itself and simplified my sump plumbing to boot.

I'll try to remember to update this thread once a year or so regarding longevity, problems, etc. along the way.

 

[wildman926]

Thought I would post an update here. Went ahead and ordered the Speedwave DC-3000 from Premium Aquatics for $119 over the weekend, and it was on my doorstep tonight when I came home. I had already made up a PVC return, including a T going to a 1/2" barb to feed my TLF GFO reactor. I had a brute trashcan with RODI water for an upcoming water change, so figured I would test the new pump out. Had a Mag5 running, which as most probably know, can be heard from across the room running in a Brute. Swapped out with the new pump, hooked everything up, hit the "+" button to check it out ... and nothing ... or so I thought. As I had read before, these pumps have a very soft start, so I didn't know it was running until I noticed the water in the trashcan was swirling! Let it run a bit, then moved to the tank with the new manifold and she fired up and ran like a kitten.

Startup is very deceptive - seems like very little flow, but ramps up over about 30 seconds or so to a nice flow. Even with the flow to the GFO reactor, the pump does seem to flow more then the Mag5, and is about as close to dead silent as can be. I do have it sitting on a 1/8" rubber mat to dampen vibrations. So now I have gone from a Mag5 plus MJ600 running GFO, to just the one DC-3000 which should be pulling about half the power. As long as it lasts a few years or so, it has paid for itself and simplified my sump plumbing to boot.

I'll try to remember to update this thread once a year or so regarding longevity, problems, etc. along the way.

Thanks for the update.

 

[silverwolf72]

DC pumps have been used forever on saltwater boats, just amazed it has taken this long to make it to the hobby.

 

[Ryan2013]

The soft start feature also seems like it would be useful for somehow putting together a closed loop type wavemaker. I'm not sure how well they would do with constant on/off but I mean without jolting the impeller every time it starts up, it could be both quieter and cheaper than vortechs.
I'm thinking of switching my return from a mag drive to a speedwave 10000. The energy savings and adjustable flow are enough of an incentive for me. I'll post a review once I get one. I'm just thinking that if dc pumps are going to be the next best thing, it's better to get one before the demand is too high and the prices go back up.

 

[nivram]

Has anyone used the variable speed dc pumps seen on eBay?

They look similar to the speedwave pumps without the controller and a just a wire.

 

[JSimpson]

Thought I would post another update regarding temps. One of the advantages I was hoping to get was lower tank temps with the Speedwave pump. I live in Houston, TX, and this time of year my A/C is running most of the time. Room temps are pretty rock solid at 77 degrees. I made a point of checking the tank temps every day when I get home from work, and for the past several days the temp was always 80.0 to 80.5 degrees. This is about the peak around 6:30 to 7:00pm. Checked this evening when I got home and tank temp was 79.6. Not much time to gather data, but at this point it looks like the DC-3000 has lowered tank temps from 0.5 to 1.0 degrees. Very nice benefit, in my opinion, when added to the power savings. I expected the lower wattage to result in a cooler tank, but had no idea of what range to expect.

Again, will update in a few days to see how consistent this is.

 

[wildman926]

Has anyone used the variable speed dc pumps seen on eBay?

They look similar to the speedwave pumps without the controller and a just a wire.

I would not use them unless you know how to solder, and what potentiometer to use, and if you know the screws are titanium, to avoid rust issues.

Thought I would post another update regarding temps. One of the advantages I was hoping to get was lower tank temps with the Speedwave pump. I live in Houston, TX, and this time of year my A/C is running most of the time. Room temps are pretty rock solid at 77 degrees. I made a point of checking the tank temps every day when I get home from work, and for the past several days the temp was always 80.0 to 80.5 degrees. This is about the peak around 6:30 to 7:00pm. Checked this evening when I got home and tank temp was 79.6. Not much time to gather data, but at this point it looks like the DC-3000 has lowered tank temps from 0.5 to 1.0 degrees. Very nice benefit, in my opinion, when added to the power savings. I expected the lower wattage to result in a cooler tank, but had no idea of what range to expect.

Again, will update in a few days to see how consistent this is.

Those pumps are looking better and better all the time.

 

[mkj]

I've had my speedwave for 3 months now, no problems. I really like it. I got mine because of low noise and safety.
For kicks, I just looked at my last electric bill and there's no measurable change. Cost savings shouldn't even be considered when we are talking about 1 pump of this size. It seems strange your so worried about 1 pump costs on your electric bill. There are easier ways to save money. It's been proven that measuring cost savings from 1 pump is judgmental and the savings isn't any where near as much as most people think. There is a small savings, but it's very minimal. That being said, I'm very happy with mine so far.

 

[JSimpson]

I've had my speedwave for 3 months now, no problems. I really like it. I got mine because of low noise and safety.
For kicks, I just looked at my last electric bill and there's no measurable change. Cost savings shouldn't even be considered when we are talking about 1 pump of this size. It seems strange your so worried about 1 pump costs on your electric bill. There are easier ways to save money. It's been proven that measuring cost savings from 1 pump is judgmental and the savings isn't any where near as much as most people think. There is a small savings, but it's very minimal. That being said, I'm very happy with mine so far.

Mag 7 - 70 watts
DC-3000 - 25 watts for approx same flow

Diff - 45 watts x 24 hrs = 1080 watt hrs per day x 365 days/yr divide by 1000for KW = 394 kwhrs per year @ 0.10/kwh equals 39.40 annual electricity savings. In 3 years the DC-3000 has paid for itself completely based on power savings alone. I realize the actual watts drawn by each pump will vary according to load, but the above is a good example.

If you think it's "judgemental" to look at your electric bill, I would suggest using a calculator for something slightly more precise. Not sure why you feel "cost savings shouldn't even be considered"

Joe

 

[l8_apex_it]

If these are on a controller that cuts power will they return to the same speed setting when power is restored?