Dead ruby red dragonet

[Voight]

Hey everyone, I have had a ruby red dragonet for about a week. He seemed to be eating well, both foraging off live rock and eating frozen baby brine shrimp. The day after I fed a bunch of BBS he was a no-sho all day(usually see him a few times throughout the day). Next day still nothing then I found half of his shredded body inside my skimmer. Yes I know it's possible for him to have swam to my sump himself, but I'm pretty sure he was killed first.

Tank mates:
Red lip blending
Red mandarin
2 cleaner shrimp
1 fire shrimp
Emerald crab

I'll add that my parameters are perfect. Anybody have any thought as to what could have happened?

 

[TheAngelfish]

Hey everyone, I have had a ruby red dragonet for about a week. He seemed to be eating well, both foraging off live rock and eating frozen baby brine shrimp. The day after I fed a bunch of BBS he was a no-sho all day(usually see him a few times throughout the day). Next day still nothing then I found half of his shredded body inside my skimmer. Yes I know it's possible for him to have swam to my sump himself, but I'm pretty sure he was killed first.

Tank mates:
Red lip blending
Red mandarin
2 cleaner shrimp
1 fire shrimp
Emerald crab

I'll add that my parameters are perfect. Anybody have any thought as to what could have happened?

IMO it could be the blenny, it could have killed it since they eat in the same area and the blenny might have killed it because it is defending it food. My second guess is emerald crab because the goby is slow and the crab could have ate half of him and his dead body went into the skimmer

 

[slief]

Dragonettes are very tough to keep long term. I've found the Ruby Reds to be among the most difficult to keep. Unless your tank is a very well established tank that has been up a long time with lots of live rock and lots of copepods, your chances of keeping one successfully long term is slim to none IMO. Frankly, I am not surprised your fish died.

 

[Voight]

Like i said, I have plenty of copepods & he spent all day eating them. Also ate bbs so lack of nutrition is clearly not the issue.

In reference to the blenny being the culprit, they do not compete w/ each other on any level; for food or territory. In fact the blenny hangs out right next to my red mandarin, and the dragonet when he was alive, all the time. Let me add the red mandarin is fat, active & healthy.

My best guess was the emerald got him when he was sleeping. Anyone else?

 

[slief]

Like i said, I have plenty of copepods & he spent all day eating them. Also ate bbs so lack of nutrition is clearly not the issue.

In reference to the blenny being the culprit, they do not compete w/ each other on any level; for food or territory. In fact the blenny hangs out right next to my red mandarin, and the dragonet when he was alive, all the time. Let me add the red mandarin is fat, active & healthy.

My best guess was the emerald got him when he was sleeping. Anyone else?

FWIW. Like I said, Ruby Reds generally don't live long in our reef tanks. There are some exceptions but in general, they are very sensitive fish that don't do well in our systems. I've have a 480 gallon display with over 600 gallons of total volume that has been up and running for nearly 20 year. My tank is very well established and extremely healthy. I have had great luck with the regular scooter blennies as well as mandarins but out of a dozen or so Ruby Reds, not a single one has survived. My water quality is impecible and I have nearly 1000 pounds of live rock and millions of pods.

While it's possible your crab killed it, I highly doubt it unless the Ruby was already struggling. It's more likely that it succumbed to collection and being transferred from collections systems, to wholesalers, to the store and then to your tank. These are not hardy fish and your loss is more likely just the typical fate of these particular fish.

 

[domination2580]

I've got two dragonetts and a blenny and no problem....they are difficult to keep but if feed and parameters good I they should last a while...

 

[ThRoewer]

FWIW. Like I said, Ruby Reds generally don't live long in our reef tanks. There are some exceptions but in general, they are very sensitive fish that don't do well in our systems. I've have a 480 gallon display with over 600 gallons of total volume that has been up and running for nearly 20 year. My tank is very well established and extremely healthy. I have had great luck with the regular scooter blennies as well as mandarins but out of a dozen or so Ruby Reds, not a single one has survived. My water quality is impecible and I have nearly 1000 pounds of live rock and millions of pods.

While it's possible your crab killed it, I highly doubt it unless the Ruby was already struggling. It's more likely that it succumbed to collection and being transferred from collections systems, to wholesalers, to the store and then to your tank. These are not hardy fish and your loss is more likely just the typical fate of these particular fish.

There might be something missing to their diet. I know back in the 90s many reefers in Germany got the red dragonets to eliminate planaria from their tanks and back then I never heard anything about them being difficult - just the opposite, they were considered the easiest of the dragonets.

One thing I noticed and that got confirmed by many others is that sixline wrasses (Pseudocheilinus hexataenia) will harass dragonets to death - they just don't get along.
If you have one of those - that's your most likely suspect in killing dragonets.

 

[slief]

There might be something missing to their diet. I know back in the 90s many reefers in Germany got the red dragonets to eliminate planaria from their tanks and back then I never heard anything about them being difficult - just the opposite, they were considered the easiest of the dragonets.

One thing I noticed and that got confirmed by many others is that sixline wrasses (Pseudocheilinus hexataenia) will harass dragonets to death - they just don't get along.
If you have one of those - that's your most likely suspect in killing dragonets.

FWIW, My 6 Lines have never harrased my Dragonettes. Granted, I have a rather large display with a plethora of pods and live rock but that has never been an issue for me. I've had great luck with my regular scooter blennies unlike Ruby Reds that have all died within a couple months of introduction and none showed any signes of trama. I know many other reefers with similar experiences with the Ruby Reds. I'm not however discounting your theory as 6 Line Wrasses can be problematic in a small tank and in general, Dragonettes need a fairly special diet. I still feel these Ruby Reds are hit and miss and moreso miss. I've had my Scotters for a year and a half now and my smaller 6 line for equally as long. In my case, I am 100% certain that my wrasses aren't part of the issue and have every reason to beleive it more the nature of these particular fish and their lack of hardiness.

 

[Voight]

FWIW. Like I said, Ruby Reds generally don't live long in our reef tanks. There are some exceptions but in general, they are very sensitive fish that don't do well in our systems. I've have a 480 gallon display with over 600 gallons of total volume that has been up and running for nearly 20 year. My tank is very well established and extremely healthy. I have had great luck with the regular scooter blennies as well as mandarins but out of a dozen or so Ruby Reds, not a single one has survived. My water quality is impecible and I have nearly 1000 pounds of live rock and millions of pods.

While it's possible your crab killed it, I highly doubt it unless the Ruby was already struggling. It's more likely that it succumbed to collection and being transferred from collections systems, to wholesalers, to the store and then to your tank. These are not hardy fish and your loss is more likely just the typical fate of these particular fish.

Understood. I guess that makes me feel a little better, as I hate mysterious deaths. I refuse to just move on without knowing exactly the cause of any issue I come across. In this case it was my fault as I did not do extensive research on the fish and its characteristics before purchasing, which I always try to do.
If I had known it was a fish that no matter what does not do well in aquariums I would have avoided it all together. It's unfortunate that they are somewhat readily available. Not fair to the fish.

 

[slief]

Understood. I guess that makes me feel a little better, as I hate mysterious deaths. I refuse to just move on without knowing exactly the cause of any issue I come across. In this case it was my fault as I did not do extensive research on the fish and its characteristics before purchasing, which I always try to do.
If I had known it was a fish that no matter what does not do well in aquariums I would have avoided it all together. It's unfortunate that they are somewhat readily available. Not fair to the fish.

I know where you come from when it comes to fish deaths. Unfortuantely with this hobby, often all you can do is speculate unless there are tell tale signs of disease. Sadly, there are certain species of fish that just don't do very well. Whether it's their sensitive nature or issues with collection or their intolerance for being transferred from one system to next between collection, distribution and resellers ultimately to the hobbiest. That is a lot of transfers in a short amount of time. That said, don't give up on them. They are beautiful and inexpensive fish and if you can get one to last, it may well be worth it for you. Despite my lack of success with that particular fish, I would absolutely try them again myself regardless of how discouraged I am with them.

 

[ThRoewer]

The sixlines can be pretty sneaky and you may not notice the attacks, especially in a huge tank.
I have a 100% track record of them going after mandarins (Synchiropus spledidus and S. picturatus) but have no experience with any of the other dragonets.
In a very large tank with dragonet species other than mandarins things may be different.

There are lots of not very hardy fish that are kept successfully so I wouldn't accept that as an explanation easily.

The need for some specific foods that are usually not present in a reef tank could be an explanation but doesn't sound too convincing to me either since more specialized fish are kept successfully. And from all I heard these dragonets seem to take the usual food quite easily. So it isn't like with Diademichthys lineatus that - from what I know - needs at least as juvenile specific sea urchins to feed on.

A more likely reason may be some bad catching practice
Where do they come from and how are they caught? Some fish are still caught with poisonous substances like cyanide.

The other thing could be some species specific disease (like it was with the Banggai Cardinals) or parasites.

 

[slief]

The sixlines can be pretty sneaky and you may not notice the attacks, especially in a huge tank.
I have a 100% track record of them going after mandarins (Synchiropus spledidus and S. picturatus) but have no experience with any of the other dragonets.
In a very large tank with dragonet species other than mandarins things may be different.

There are lots of not very hardy fish that are kept successfully so I wouldn't accept that as an explanation easily.

The need for some specific foods that are usually not present in a reef tank could be an explanation but doesn't sound too convincing to me either since more specialized fish are kept successfully. And from all I heard these dragonets seem to take the usual food quite easily. So it isn't like with Diademichthys lineatus that - from what I know - needs at least as juvenile specific sea urchins to feed on.

A more likely reason may be some bad catching practice
Where do they come from and how are they caught? Some fish are still caught with poisonous substances like cyanide.

The other thing could be some species specific disease (like it was with the Banggai Cardinals) or parasites.

I've got a very healthy Mandarin in my tank that has been with me well over a year along with two 6 lines. One is a very large male and the other is a smaller female. No issues there and as I said, I also have a scooter. My 6 lines are model citizens and don't harass any of my fish.

I tend to think it's either collection method, collection location and the transport involved or species specific disease. More likely the former as opposed to the latter.

 

[Chad Vossen]

Ruby reds are actually really easy. However, there is one simple rule. GET THEM WHILE THEY'RE FRESH!!!

If you buy a ruby red that's been neglected for a week or longer, it's already dieing. If you find a fresh import that's still got some mass to the stomach, you'll almost certainly be successful. I wait for fresh shipments, and order in many pairs at a time. I feed nutramar ova (bought a huge stash a year ago!), but they will also take small foods such as frozen baby brine, and tiggerfeast by reed mariculture. Put them in a tank with lots of live rock. Bare tanks freak them out and they may not feed.

I get mine eating frozen right away, then they eventually pick up other foods as well. I have ruby red pairs that will rise up into the water to feed on pellets as they fall to the bottom. They are fat, and spawning at this point. Many of the pairs I've sold are now spawning in peoples tanks.

Aggressive fish will kill the dragonets. They don't understand territories at all. I've had a coral beauty kill a huge pair I was keeping for myself. One customer had a hogfish kill his spawning pair. Another customer had his blenny kill a pair. Be mindful of the fish you have when considering a pair of ruby reds.

 

[Chad Vossen]

I have a male right now that will eat full sized PE mysis too. Doesn't take them long to learn what's food.

 

[slief]

Ruby reds are actually really easy. However, there is one simple rule. GET THEM WHILE THEY'RE FRESH!!!

If you buy a ruby red that's been neglected for a week or longer, it's already dieing. If you find a fresh import that's still got some mass to the stomach, you'll almost certainly be successful. I wait for fresh shipments, and order in many pairs at a time. I feed nutramar ova (bought a huge stash a year ago!), but they will also take small foods such as frozen baby brine, and tiggerfeast by reed mariculture. Put them in a tank with lots of live rock. Bare tanks freak them out and they may not feed.

All of my Ruby Reds came straight from the wholesaler (Quality Marine) directly to my tank. They don't come any fresher let alone from a better wholesale source. I've got nearly 1000 pounds of live rock in my 20 year old system and a plethora of copepods. I have healthy Mandarins, healthy scooters, pipe fish etc. The demise of my Ruby reds were not the result of water quality, agressive fish, food, length of time in distribution or anything else. Perhaps it's batch related or where the fish are coming from but I have tried on multiple occasions to keep them with no success. That said, if you get a good one, getting them to eat frozen food should not be an issue as my Mandarins and my scooters love frozen mysis and LRS frozen foods.