Deep Sand Bed -- Anatomy & Terminology

Hey, thanks for the calculator, that's the first one I've seen for aquarium use, very cool. I'm setting up a 72 gal, which I calculated to need 140 lbs of sand based on lbs/volume info I found on a sand manufacturer website. This calculator says 117 lb, so I'll try that. Thanks also for the Carib Sea info. I hadn't seen that particular Carib Sea product. I have some Carib Sea Aragamax sugar size coming, but I'll try a bag of that too. I haven't read a lot of good things on the forums about "live"sand in a bag, but what the heck, I'll give it a try. I was also going to top of the bed with Carib Sea Super Reef, a larger (0.5 - 2.0) grain size.
 
The usefulness of livesand is often debated. Tho true it is unnecessary, that is not the same as to say it is useless. Regardless, it is a moot point in the case of OceanDirect, since it is not offered in a non-live variety. I selected it specifically for its particle composition, but did use a microscope to verify that it is indeed "alive". That may not be true of other brands, or for any brand that has been siting on a shelf for too long.

Hope this helps.
 
Well, IA will tell you that bagged on the shelf live sand is a different animal altogethor from live sand full of critters which is why they recommend you buy the other kits. A scoop of live sand from a local tank is a good start. I set up a 29 about 10 years ago with those same kits from IA when I lived about 10 minutes from there. I set up my current tank without them and have the same critters for the most part. I may not have all the diversity but FWIW I got plenty of pods, bristleworms and micro stars just off of liverock w/o paying extra for them
 
The only problem I'm having is finding any. I couldn't find one on line that had any in stock. CaribSea's website doesn't list any vendors either.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15441974#post15441974 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
So you mean my 40+ year old gravel is no good? Dam



If? Ha :lol:
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A calcium based gravel will go bad in the same way as a DSB made oc calcium as far as PO4 saturation. All Ca based substances have that potential. WIth a proper flow and filtration this need not be in the life time of a tank or it's owner. :) Is the gravel you use not Ca based?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15442397#post15442397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Your question is about sand exposed to high levels of phosphate phosphate that has been removed from the tank. I would not reuse it or old gravel either. I would reuse liverock but wouldn't let it dry out.
Soaking either phosphate laden rock or sand in clean low nutrient seawater over a period of months may ecncourage the phosphate to equilibrate. Alternatively , phosphate laden rock can be briefly soaked in vinegar or another mild acid. The upper layers will dissolve and can be rinsed away along with any phosphate. Sand would be mush.



Paul I thought all your gravel turned to mud years ago.
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I soaked a batch in 3 parts FW to 1 part muriatic (not really that weak :D ) and while I did not get to do a pre and post test, the rock was PO4 laden before and in the time it has cooked since then it has shed very little detritus making me think a good deal of the nutrients were removed. No noticable difference in weight was noted but I did not use a scale. Generally the just noticable difference for a human is 10%, so I could have lost as much as 9% total mass and not really noticed.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15482546#post15482546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenglish
I soaked a batch in 3 parts FW to 1 part muriatic (not really that weak :D ) and while I did not get to do a pre and post test, the rock was PO4 laden before and in the time it has cooked since then it has shed very little detritus making me think a good deal of the nutrients were removed. No noticable difference in weight was noted but I did not use a scale. Generally the just noticable difference for a human is 10%, so I could have lost as much as 9% total mass and not really noticed.
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In this FW and muriatic solution did you have any water movement or did you just put the rock in the solution? And how long did you let the rock sit?
 
I let it sit maybe an hour. The only water movement was the profuse bubbling. It formed a head of bubbles out of the bucket about 9 inches high. It should of course be noted this technique renders any live rock quite sterile so this is best applied to dry base rock or rock you are ok with sterilizing. It also removes any pests :) Muriatic acid is very dangerous to work with and check local laws about disposal.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15482531#post15482531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenglish
WIth a proper flow and filtration this need not be in the life time of a tank or it's owner. :) Is the gravel you use not Ca based?
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At his age, everything goes bad. :D
 
So I guess my calcium based dolomite will go bad in a year. At age 41. :lol:

You guys think too much into this stuff. Muriatic acid :cool:

I really wish I had all of these problems so I could contribute more.

OK, no I don't :dance:
 
Don't forget that dolomite is around 30% magnesium too.
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Well Excuuuussse meee. So I guess only 70% of my dolomite should crash :lol:

I don't think there is actually anything left in my dolomite to crash :D
 
Believe me Capn, you don't me participating in a thread about DSBs

I would rather stick this wrench in my eye ----> :mtool: :dance:
 
My 5" DSB is still going strong. :)

Paul, with regards to your, "I don't believe worms travel down to the unoxygenated layers." (paraphrase) I've noticed something about the worms in my sandbed. They are long and travel to the lower layers vertically. Thus one end can be oxygen deprived, while the other end still has access to oxygen.

Oh, and they don't let Waterkeeper on the ISS, but he does help out in the training tank. ;)

wk_astro.jpg
 
They are long and travel to the lower layers vertically. Thus one end can be oxygen deprived, while the other end still has access to oxygen.
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Whys, then I stand corrected :wavehand:

My main problem is not that they work, it is what keeps them working. Unless you replace those worms I don't think they will last 15 or 20 years. And you would need thousands of them to bring enough oxygen down to the lower layers now and 10 years from now.
If they do that, I stand corrected again.
I am wrong a lot, my wife keeps reminding me anyway :D
 
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