Designer clowns... Why?

You refuse to buy captive bred fish and prefer to take them from the reef? This makes zero sense. The goal for this hobby should always be to purchase the sustainable option so we are not causing additional harm to the environment.

Who cares what the lineage is of your fish. Ora sells regular looking clowns I'm sure they aren't different than wild caught in your tank.
This is not true. Captive bred clownfish are so deformed these days. I only buy relatively deformed free clownfish. This eliminated a lot of the captive bred fish available. I like to buy captive bred. Lineage of the fish is not at all important to me, having no significant deformities is.
 
It's quite easy to find non deformed clowns though if you look around and have patience.

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I like designers , but only those that have normal fish traits , I despise the long fin , stubby and other unnatural oddities .
 
You refuse to buy captive bred fish and prefer to take them from the reef? This makes zero sense. The goal for this hobby should always be to purchase the sustainable option so we are not causing additional harm to the environment.

Who cares what the lineage is of your fish. Ora sells regular looking clowns I'm sure they aren't different than wild caught in your tank.

Taking clownfish from the reef doesn't have much negative impact, especially if the breeding pair or some juveniles are left behind in the anemone.

The real impact comes from removing anemones as the number of anemones determines the number of possible anemonefish pairs.

With "lineage" I mean that I want to know who the parents and their parents were down to the region from where the original wild specimen were collected. With most captive bred clownfish you simply don't know if they came form a natural strain pair or if they were designer "cast-offs" that look normal but come from a designer pair.
This is of course only if you plan on breeding with your fish (which I do).
If you don't plan on breeding I don't care what you put together.
But if you may think about breeding at some point, you better make sure you know what you are breeding with.
If I could get deformity free tank bred fish that do not come from a designer strain and where the origin is know, I would definitely consider them. Flawless tank raised latezonatus for example.

As for deformities of captive bred clowns - nearly all commercially bred clowns in the US have some form of deformities to some degree. The most common is the underbite.
With designer clowns where coloration was the primary selection criteria things can be much worse.
 
Only that clownfish really don't care about "freedom" as that is something they don't even have in the wild.
All they care about is a nice large anemone, clean water, enough food and laying eggs - the last point is why you should only keep them in pairs, but never alone.
 
I personally think that if designer clowns weren't so over/inbred there wouldn't be as much uproar as it is today. However so many of them are so ugly, cross bred and inbred that it's hard to look at designer clowns. Unfortunately too many companies/breeders are competing for little business. They have bills to pay, salaries and vendors. Quantity becomes more important than quality. Hence the flood of extremely deformed clowns. Patterns and colors are the least of my worries. It's sad to see their very deformed bodies and many are mislabeled to make things worse. I can't tell you how many Darwin clowns I've seen for sale marked as Onyx. It's getting ridiculous and completely out of control.
 
I personally think that if designer clowns weren't so over/inbred there wouldn't be as much uproar as it is today. However so many of them are so ugly, cross bred and inbred that it's hard to look at designer clowns. Unfortunately too many companies/breeders are competing for little business. They have bills to pay, salaries and vendors. Quantity becomes more important than quality. Hence the flood of extremely deformed clowns. Patterns and colors are the least of my worries. It's sad to see their very deformed bodies and many are mislabeled to make things worse. I can't tell you how many Darwin clowns I've seen for sale marked as Onyx. It's getting ridiculous and completely out of control.

Yes!

I have two general problems with designer clowns:

1. it's pretty much all you see in stores these days. Wild forms have become hard to find in most stores here.

2. if you find tank raised wild forms (or what appears to be wild forms) you can't be sure if they are truly wild forms or maybe just designer cast-offs that didn't make the cut. Also, some rare wild forms like the black and white Darwin clown (which is highly likely a species in its own right) have been carelessly mixed with ocellaris so that it has become largely questionable if any tank bred black and white "ocellaris" you can find these days is actually truly a black and white Darwin clown and not to some degree a hybrid.
A similar situation is with "onyx" percula and all the black photon hybrids.

I got lucky that I was able to get at least 3 pairs of true Solomon Island Percula. My first percula pair may or may not be wild, but they look the part and the store where I got them from sometimes gets wild percula from the wholesalers in L.A.
 
There is one big difference between dogs and designer clowns.
Clown variants are induced by exposing the eggs to a mutating chemical or radiation. The variants are then inbred for the particular variation.
I do not think that dog breeds come from chemical mutations but I may be wrong about that?
 
....
Clown variants are induced by exposing the eggs to a mutating chemical or radiation. The variants are then inbred for the particular variation.
....
:rolleyes::rolleyes:To many super-hero movies and we get adults who thinks this.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes feed them mercury. Zap them with W rays and expose them to Raytonium....
 
There is one big difference between dogs and designer clowns.
Clown variants are induced by exposing the eggs to a mutating chemical or radiation. The variants are then inbred for the particular variation.
I do not think that dog breeds come from chemical mutations but I may be wrong about that?
Really?

I just assumed it was selective breeding [emoji12]

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Rock bottom is still far from being reached.
That will be when the deformities become the new ideal and wild forms are considered plain or even ugly.
It's kind of what you have already with guppies. Only there things are even worse as the wild forms are facing to go extinct in the wild...

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I got lucky that I was able to get at least 3 pairs of true Solomon Island Percula. My first percula pair may or may not be wild, but they look the part and the store where I got them from sometimes gets wild percula from the wholesalers in L.A.

Solomon Island and wild Onyx true percs have become harder to find lately. It's one of the two reasons I got my pair #2 from QM. The second reason I bought them is because of poor survival track record of wild true percs from other wholesalers. I don't know whether or not PNG has lifted its ban on commercial fish collection and export but QM sales rep said they don't get fish from there anymore. That's unfortunate because PNG has some fantastic true peculas that could be imported here for breeding purposes.
 
You refuse to buy captive bred fish and prefer to take them from the reef? This makes zero sense. The goal for this hobby should always be to purchase the sustainable option so we are not causing additional harm to the environment.

I understand where you are coming from. Protecting reefs is a very important issue these days with so many of them bleaching and dying due to climate change. And if whoever reading this post doesn't believe in science and climate change, you can keep your views to yourself and stop reading.
As far as tank raised clowns, it seems that this hobby has led itself to self-destruction (as related to clownfishes) by over breeding and inbreeding clowns that do not conform to wild caught specimen. They are so deformed these days they look nothing like regular clownfish. This in my mind is pure rip off. Do you want to go to a Mercedes dealer and pay $50,000 for a beat up car with dents everywhere? I certainly don't and there's no reason why it should be accepted in this hobby.
 
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