detritus free sump??

[kaihonu82]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10558995#post10558995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Okay, if you've got nothing but childish personal jabs, here we go.

Fiji water temps:

Palau water temps (Marshall islands)

If you really want to hold onto that completely ignorant view that coral reefs are stable environments, read this:

http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php



Got anything more?

your pretty little pictures don't show the ocean's temperature changing 6 degrees daily

 

[Kiel'thalin]

lol, this thread is getting comical, let me throw in a humor to lighten up the crowd before things get out of hand...

"Long ago in a distant land, I, Rich, the shape shifting master of darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil. But a foolish reef aquarist wielding a magic keyboard stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in time, and flung him into the future where my evil is law. Now the fool seeks to return to the past and undo the future that is Rich"

 

[discocarp]

LOL. Samurai Jack fan?

 

[discocarp]

BTW, those pictures are worthless for daily temp fluctuations. If you read the article, though, there is a little more info.

Personally I find it a bit weak. Most of the daily fluctuation data was taken at a single point, in a single month, in a single location. And even then, most of the days had only about a 1.5 degree Celsius change (although a couple days had bigger changes). I think its quite a jump to go from the corals can tolerate an occasional big swing to its no problem at all.

I don't think there's a convincing argument either way personally.

My personal experience is that temp swings were a bigger deal for the fish than the corals. Big temp swings seemed to lead to ich outbreaks in my early tanks. However (and its a big however), this is before I was very experienced. I didn't q-tank, my husbandry habits were subpar (although not awful), etc.. So I am hesitant to draw a lot of lessons from it. This does seem to match up with other people's experiences though.

IMO, with no convincing evidence either way and lots of anecdotal "evidence" that swings are bad, I take the conservative approach and try to keep things stable.

 

[ralphie16]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559056#post10559056 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
Oh I'm so sorry, my ignorant way of thinking, as you so abruptly put it, had me thinking we were talking about a 6.2 degree fluctuation in a 24 hr period not a year.............

When the data for the monthly average fluctuates this much it should be understood that the values for the daily extreme temperatures fluctuate over a much high range.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559226#post10559226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ralphie16
When the data for the monthly average fluctuates this much it should be understood that the values for the daily extreme temperatures fluctuate over a much high range.

Exactly.


The rest of you need to RTFA.

Personally I find it a bit weak. Most of the daily fluctuation data was taken at a single point, in a single month, in a single location.

Again, RTFA. Shimek says more than once that this has been done at hundreds of points, but the graphs all basically look the same, so theres no point in copying them all into the article.

 

[discocarp]

And the graph in the article is weak. I did read the article. Its a huge stretch to go from the occasional big swing (looks like what, maybe 1 a week?) to its fine to swing it in the aquarium every day.

I'm sorry, but I think Shimek's argument is weak as far as daily fluctuations go.

I think the seasonal variations are a no brainer though.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559372#post10559372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by discocarp
And the graph in the article is weak. I did read the article. Its a huge stretch to go from the occasional big swing (looks like what, maybe 1 a week?) to its fine to swing it in the aquarium every day.

Again, what part of

"When the data for the monthly average fluctuates this much it should be understood that the values for the daily extreme temperatures fluctuate over a much high range."

Do you not understand. Wild fluctuations happen EVERY SINGLE DAY.



read this one:

"Reef corals occurring in a highly fluctuating temperature environment at Fahal Island, Gulf of Oman (Indian Ocean)"

Its from Coral Reefs: Volume 16, Number 4 / December, 1997

 

[RichConley]

The idea that something that is frequently affected by tides has anything stable about it is absurd.

 

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559372#post10559372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by discocarp

I'm sorry, but I think Shimek's argument is weak ........

I get that impression with most of Ron's work, that's why i didn't bother reading the article. He's a bit set in his ways and thinks things can only work one way, His Way. he lost allot of credit with a good number of the board members 4 or 5 yrs ago with his postings on DSBs.

 

[ShapeGSX]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10551413#post10551413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trmiv
If you want to vacuum it without removing water get a canister filter and use it as a sump vac.

You're my hero. I have an Eheim canister filter that the LFS convinced me to buy when I set up my reef tank. It is just sitting in the basement. I could use it for vacuuming! It really is a fantastic filter. Just not for a reef tank.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559422#post10559422 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
I get that impression with most of Ron's work, that's why i didn't bother reading the article. He's a bit set in his ways and thinks things can only work one way, His Way. he lost allot of credit with a good number of the board members 4 or 5 yrs ago with his postings on DSBs.

Read the research. Look at the data points.


It is a FACT that coral reef temperatures fluctuate wildly. Your oppinion on Ron has absolutely no bearing on this fact.

Attack the argument, not the arguer.



As to the whole DSB thing, was Bomber any better with the BB stuff? Not a chance.

 

[discocarp]

Wild fluctuations happen EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Day 1 on the daily fluctuation graph from the Shimek article you provided shows a 1 degree celsius change. I guess we have different opinions of what wild means.

Anyway, this thread is getting a bit too mean spirited for my tastes. I'm done here.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559494#post10559494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by discocarp
Day 1 on the daily fluctuation graph from the Shimek article you provided shows a 1 degree celsius change. I guess we have different opinions of what wild means.

Anyway, this thread is getting a bit too mean spirited for my tastes. I'm done here.

Right, day one fluctuated about 1.2C, or 2.2F. Day 3 fluctuated 4.5F. Day 4 fluctuated 5.8F. On day 12, it was almost 9F....


"When the data for the monthly average fluctuates this much it should be understood that the values for the daily extreme temperatures fluctuate over a much higher range."

 

[King-Kong]

Anyone here actually gone diving? Sitting on the reefs and appreciating some of these conditions can help put certain attributes in prospective.

 

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559573#post10559573 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by King-Kong
Anyone here actually gone diving? Sitting on the reefs and appreciating some of these conditions can help put certain attributes in prospective.

i have. and when diving there are considerable temp fluctuations in the currents where there are gaps in the reefs, but like the corals in the tide pools, and even those exposed to air at low tide, they aren't the corals you typically see in the home aquarium or for sale by the vendors.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10559654#post10559654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
i have. and when diving there are considerable temp fluctuations in the currents where there are gaps in the reefs, but like the corals in the tide pools, and even those exposed to air at low tide, they aren't the corals you typically see in the home aquarium or for sale by the vendors.

What?

We see acropora, montipora, favia, etc (which are commonly exposed) ALL THE TIME.

 

[JetCat USA]

and if I'd of said black, you'd of said white so nothing new with you today huh Rich?

i think the detritus in the sump question has been more then addressed, un-subscribing from this thread....

 

[Markk96]

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[Project Reef]

A hang on canister filter such as a HOT Magnum will work great for this purpose. It basically acts as a mini-shop vac however just strictly siphons out detritus and gunk so you can basically sit there and vacuum for hours without having to worry about draining your tank of all the water.